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Convince me #227922
07/05/04 10:23 AM
07/05/04 10:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 50
South Africa
Deon_du_Plessis Offline OP
journeyman
Deon_du_Plessis  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 50
South Africa
Hey people,

After browsing the BD forums on and off over the past 3 weeks, it is becoming apparent that BD is far, FAR inferior to Divine Divinity in just about every way imaginable. From reading your (the fans) posts, I've gone from hotly anticipating BD's South African release to wondering if I should even bother since the game is, by most accounts, unpolished, unbalanced and devilishly difficult. Even having read on occasion that "this game OWNZ" has done little to restore my enthusiasm.

Granted, the only sane thing to do is still to buy the game and make up my own mind, and I will probably still do so, however I am getting the feeling that this could be a waste of my time, money and effort, and that I should simply load up DD again and play it through one more time instead.

I challenge all of you reading this forum to convince me why I SHOULD bother with BD - please let me know what makes this game different to any other action/RPG out there and what features make it worth my hard-earned money. Or, failing that, just let me know what it is you love about the game. At the moment it sounds like playing BD might be an exercise in frustration. Convince me otherwise!

Thanks!

Cheers

Deon du Plessis
South Africa

Re: Convince me #227923
07/05/04 10:59 AM
07/05/04 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 948
Plowking Offline
old hand
Plowking  Offline
old hand

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 948
Hi there...

Well I think you should get the game, but before you play patch to 1.41, or by the time you get it maybe a later patch will be out again.

People are having problems with the patch but that's because of save game compataiblity. If you start a new game with the latest patch most (if not all) problems should have been solved.

Secondly, and it's not normally my nature to say this, but some people on the forum have taken the fact that Larian people try to implement fixes and game changes according to complaints on the forum MUCH too far. Reporting bugs is fine, but demanding a game restructure isn't...

For example - attempts to bully the developers into changing the game to suit their own specific wants or needs with posts like, 'I'm not buying this game until you implement [this or that]. Or, 'Here's how it should function - fix it now!'

If I encounter a problem, I'll check it out, but I'm not bothered reading the 'bug list' forum as it is now as everyone appears to be experiencing different types of bugs with different machines. But again, most of this is old save game related (probably)!!! I may be proved wrong though if some one has started a whole new game with the latest patch and still has serious problems. Will have to wait and see.

In short I'm really enjoying the game, mostly from act 2 onwards as that's when you get more freedom, not much freedom to do what you want in act 1.

My only gripe with the game from a design point would be the skill points system...you don’t have enough points to make secondary skills useful as you'll need to keep your combat skills up to survive.

But it's starting to play much more like the old Divinity, and I hope it continues that way. Maybe someone who's further than I will explain.

Even before patching the game I only had one problem and that's because I use Win98.

I do recommend it, but it has it's flaws like any game anywhere. With a tweak to the skill system in a patch (which could happen) it could work out to be nearly as good as Divinity. Unfortunately, I don't think it can surpass the greatness of that first game and the sheer freedom of play it offered.




Re: Convince me #227924
07/05/04 11:01 AM
07/05/04 11:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,695
A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
veteran
AlrikFassbauer  Offline
veteran
A

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,695
Hello.

Well, I wouldn't call a thread "convince me", but rather "what do you say" ?

Because the choice is up to you.

You might be "convinced" to something you don't like, but it can be the other way round as well. We can give only hints, reasons, articles etc. . The decision is up to you.

I will definitively buy it one day, especially because of the humour (which I like very much ) , but I don't really compare with . Bot are - at least in my piint of view - different games in different universes.

That's so far from my side.

Alrik.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: Convince me #227925
07/05/04 11:04 AM
07/05/04 11:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,947
Planet Earth
the_bean Offline
veteran
the_bean  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,947
Planet Earth
hello,
i personaly don't have the game right now
i'm hoping around next week or soo.

But don't always go by the opinions of other people alone.
Sometimes "things" are over exagurated (spelling?) and other are soo true.

The only thing i can say is that you should try out the DEMO first.
it gives you a first impression with the game engine and it's skill system.

And i'm sure you going to like the final product.


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
Re: Convince me #227926
07/05/04 11:28 AM
07/05/04 11:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,836
Canada
Raze Offline

Larian Studios
Raze  Offline

Larian Studios

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,836
Canada
There are party selection hotkeys in the full game, as well as screen movement and re-centre hotkeys, which were added after the demo was released.
Voices in the game were re-done, particularly the Death Knight's. I like the new voice better, but opinions on both vary widely (in any case it gets better as the game progresses).
The demo is the first level of an act that was designed to be linear, and unfortunately does not contain much variety in quests. There is enough to hint at the style and humour of the full game, however, and give you an idea of the interface and difficulty.

I am playing on tactical, have not used Battlefields to level up or attacked from sneak mode, and have not had many problems with difficulty. I've been quite stingy using skill points, and that has not hurt any.

Re: Convince me #227927
07/05/04 11:54 AM
07/05/04 11:54 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
MonkehmaN Offline
journeyman
MonkehmaN  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
I'd like to just state: The plot for Beyond Divinity is fantastic, especially the more you progress. It's extremely fun and I can't help but smile at the humour. Yes the game is difficult for some, but it's all playing style and opinion. Larian did a fantastic job and the only frustrations/problems i've had were bug related, but then all games go through that on the PC. It's personal preference but i'd suggest at least trying the demo and then deciding.


====== Monkeh see, Monkeh do.
Re: Convince me #227928
07/05/04 12:17 PM
07/05/04 12:17 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 95
A small cupboard in Leicester
BenWright Offline
journeyman
BenWright  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 95
A small cupboard in Leicester
To be honest I can't convince myself that it's any good, and if I hadn't stupidly written in the manual information that *should* have been included(such as what charms do) I'd have returned it by now. I would suggest you buy it from a shop that allow a 7-16 days return policy and keep it in good condition until then, make up your mind and go from there.

And as for those who haven't played the game...Stop telling everyone how good it is, you will only make yourself look foolish when you realise it's nothing like Divine Divinity. Act 1 is very typical of the rest of the game, new voices or not. BD is horribly linear, and with a lack of good NPC interaction I'd hardly rate it as a genuine RPG. It's Diablo 2 with out the style and I don't think I was even getting the full game music until the most recent patch. Maybe with a decent bugfree game I'd give it 6/10 but so far it's not getting that.

Finally I think it was a bit underhand to link it so with DD. Okay that was probally not Larians fault since they were going to call it Riftrunner. But when I saw it's title of Beyond Divinity I naturally thought it was a semi-sequel, in the same way Baldurs Gate had BG2 or Fallout had Fallout2....you expect a new improved version of the earlier game but still much the same. BD only shares the isometric view and simple clickfest combat, everything else is radically different. I tell you what, when the real DD2 comes out I'll take a long hard look first at the MBs to decide before buying it.

Re: Convince me #227929
07/05/04 12:33 PM
07/05/04 12:33 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 43
T
Telemachos Offline
apprentice
Telemachos  Offline
apprentice
T

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 43
Quote:

Stop telling everyone how good it is, you will only make yourself look foolish when you realise it's nothing like Divine Divinity.




On the same note - has it occurred to you that some people might be playing and enjoying the game? That some people with a different oppinion than you might be posting here? So stop telling everyone how bad it is, I say

Yes, it's annoying with the bugs and all and yes I'm a bit annoyed that I cannot play right now (1.41 messed up my quests and I'm waiting for the next path to see what happens) - but still, I played the game for more or less 10 hours straight yesterday and was enjoying it a lot.

The bugs are technical problems that are annoying but they will hopefully be fixed eventualy. But the game itself is quite fun IMHO and I'm still looking forward to playing all the way through it.

- Telemachos

PS. I've never bothered to return a game in my entire life - no matter how bad or buggy it was. Is that something you do often where you come from?

Re: Convince me #227930
07/05/04 12:38 PM
07/05/04 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
MonkehmaN Offline
journeyman
MonkehmaN  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
Quote:


Yes, it's annoying with the bugs and all and yes I'm a bit annoyed that I cannot play right now (1.41 messed up my quests and I'm waiting for the next path to see what happens) - but still, I played the game for more or less 10 hours straight yesterday and was enjoying it a lot.

The bugs are technical problems that are annoying but they will hopefully be fixed eventualy. But the game itself is quite fun IMHO and I'm still looking forward to playing all the way through it.

- Telemachos




Exactly my view on the game. It's still an enjoyable and extremely well written story (in Act 3 & 4 it really picks up) and I just love all RPG's in general. Call me mad but they are like a book... I may not like the Hobbit as much as Lord of the Rings, but i'd still read it all the way through and get enjoyment from it.

I think Larian should have left the name as (my opinion) it would of stopped a lot of these comparisons.


====== Monkeh see, Monkeh do.
Re: Convince me #227931
07/05/04 12:50 PM
07/05/04 12:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Belgium
BosjeR Offline
member
BosjeR  Offline
member

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 123
Belgium
I finished the game with 1.2 and had a great time doing it. I never played DD so I can't compare. I had a lot of magic spells and survivor skills on my hero, my DK had melee and traps... worked out nicely.

I found the game quite easy on "action" while other people find it incredibly hard on "easy". Gonna restart playing again and this time on "hardcore" just to see if it's possible to finish

Never experienced any annoying bugs I have to say, only battlefield quests (and a subquest here and there in normal world) that stayed in logfile although quest was completed (I did get the xp though, so it didn't bother me too much).

I liked it, but I don't see why I should convince you, just do whatever you want

Re: Convince me #227932
07/05/04 12:57 PM
07/05/04 12:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,313
MOO!
Womble Offline
veteran
Womble  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,313
MOO!
Quote:

I liked it, but I don't see why I should convince you, just do whatever you want




Nicely said man. I would get it. I've just played a bit of act 1 so far but I like it just fine. I too encountered no major bugs AT ALL so there.

Nice Warcraft 3 record there Bosjer. Well impressesive.


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
Re: Convince me #227933
07/05/04 01:00 PM
07/05/04 01:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 78
Sitting on the 2.648.278 stair...
RedruM Offline
journeyman
RedruM  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 78
Sitting on the 2.648.278 stair...
To be honest, the game is still quite new, and as it is a rpg with massive quests, some problems can always occur in the beginning stages of the game.
Just like it was the same for Never Winter Nights, Diablo, Diablo 2 (where there still was a patch for after several years ...) and every other RPG ever created. For example the ultima series was very famed, but to be honest, they were games were you could do a LOT wrong ... and mess up the game.
Beyond is also a game where you can mess up, but still I think it's quite good up until the part where I've played it.

But yes, after playing Divine Divinity, Beyond doesn't really improve it ... it's just a little different with a twist too it. Just depends on what you personally like I guess, but it still is a good RPG.



Re: Convince me #227934
07/05/04 01:02 PM
07/05/04 01:02 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
MonkehmaN Offline
journeyman
MonkehmaN  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 84
England, UK
I only noticed a bug after patch 1.40, and that was only one bug in Act 4. Can't say anything else has really stopped me playing, I've been playing this too much if anything.


====== Monkeh see, Monkeh do.
Re: Convince me #227935
07/05/04 01:14 PM
07/05/04 01:14 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 430
Blefescu
fable Offline
addict
fable  Offline
addict

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 430
Blefescu
It's a game I'm really enjoying but hey, don't let me change your mind. For all I know, you may well hate it--after all, you've been reading these forums and come to an opposite conclusion! Why should I bother? More to the point, why should I care?

Re: Convince me #227936
07/05/04 01:25 PM
07/05/04 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 198
Las Vegas, NV
DoritoOfDeath Offline
member
DoritoOfDeath  Offline
member

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 198
Las Vegas, NV
The game isn't exactly far inferior to DD. I have full faith it will be fixed and working fine. I would never recommend someone not purchase this game, what I may recommend is waiting a month or two before playing it.

Re: Convince me #227937
07/05/04 04:44 PM
07/05/04 04:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,397
At the top of the Eiffel Tower
Barta Offline
veteran
Barta  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,397
At the top of the Eiffel Tower
Quote:

And as for those who haven't played the game...Stop telling everyone how good it is, you will only make yourself look foolish when you realise it's nothing like Divine Divinity.




I haven't played the game and i will not tell everyone how good it is !

But after playing the demo and the beginning of Act 2 (during the tests) i am pretty sure to love it very much.

I am happy that the game is different from Divine Divinity, i would not like to play a clone of the first Larian game.

I am happy that the game is more difficult and more strategic than Divine Divinity, i hate to finish a game after a few hours of playing because it is too easy.

I love to play with the DeathKnight.

I love the graphics of the Larian artists and the new avatars, even if i don't really like 3D graphics.

I love the gameplay too.

I don't care about the bugs because i know that Yann is working hard to fix these problems in a new patch.

I tryed several demos of new games and i did not like them as much as the demo of Beyond Divinity.

And if there was 99,9 % of the gamers telling everybody that the game is bad, i will get the game anyway to make my own opinion.

This is my opinion and i don't try to convince anybody.

Barta

Re: Convince me #227938
07/05/04 04:52 PM
07/05/04 04:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 354
McCleary, WA, USA
everyman420 Offline
enthusiast
everyman420  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 354
McCleary, WA, USA
I'm playing it,

i enjoy it.

i haven't had any difficulty in terms of game balance and hardness.

maybe its just me, but some people whine for no reason.

now the issue with the current broken patch is a little annoying, but since i backed up my saves prior to installing it and haven't reached the location / scene where the issue becomes introduced, i'm hoping it shouldn't be there when the new patch arrives.

and of course if necessary i can start act 2 over again.

try it, if you don't like it... well at least you attempted it yourself.


Re: Convince me #227939
07/05/04 04:58 PM
07/05/04 04:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
USA
Faralas Offline
enthusiast
Faralas  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 245
USA
Whether you choose to buy or not buy the game will be up to you. I think what's impressed me the most about BD is when I started playing it, I had no idea what 'lie' ahead. Not an inkling. And I played DD (and loved it, btw). I've had the game for over a week now and up until 2 days ago, I was one frustrated gamer. I could not make it through the first act's dungeon to save my (or my character's) life. So, like any good adventurer, I restarted. Lo' and behold, I slowed down the pace, found a couple of things I had over looked (one being a huge treasure chest), and two clicks later, I was back in the universe I knew as DD! And it was even better than DD.

Yeah, there are a lot of complaints in these forums. I like to decide things for myself. I'm not one to even listen to movie critics and their reviews. (Why bother? They don't have my particular tastes, do they? )

So, if you buy the game, I hope you find the same enjoyment and surprises that I have.


Faralas



Re: Convince me #227940
07/05/04 05:09 PM
07/05/04 05:09 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 95
A small cupboard in Leicester
BenWright Offline
journeyman
BenWright  Offline
journeyman

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 95
A small cupboard in Leicester
Quote:

Quote:

Stop telling everyone how good it is, you will only make yourself look foolish when you realise it's nothing like Divine Divinity.




On the same note - has it occurred to you that some people might be playing and enjoying the game? That some people with a different oppinion than you might be posting here? So stop telling everyone how bad it is, I say


- Telemachos

PS. I've never bothered to return a game in my entire life - no matter how bad or buggy it was. Is that something you do often where you come from?




Well In the flame wars amongst DoritofDeath and others I've noticed more than one poster claiming how great it was but admitting to having only played the demo, whilst also claiming the demo is unrepresentative of the game. If someone has played the full game and enjoyed it well kudos to them, but based on it's release schedule many outside of Germany haven't yet played the full thing. However my opinion is that the game has serious flaws and I'm not afraid of telling someone. There are many older RPGS and they compare very favourably to BD since BDs graphics and system requirements make it look 5 years old anyway. If someone has never played Planescape Torment, Fallout, Baldurs Gate, or even Divine Divinity I'd recommend they play them all first. I'm only playing BD because I have played all those earlier games and I need something new.


As for for returning games, several retailers offer satisfaction guaranteed claims, and on several occasions I've gone in and said 'This game is crap, can I have a refund' Why buy and keep something that is rubbish. Would you keep a Stereo HiFI that has crackly sound. I haven't got that kind of money to throw away. Let's see, Hostile Waters went back, Some Diablo2 clone whose name I forget went back, plus a few more that were so bug ridden they were unplayable. Haven't you heard... The Customer Is Always Right. As I've gotten older I've become more fussy in my games, perhaps since I can compare them to older games I enjoyed and fully expect something built for a better spec system to be a better game.

Re: Convince me #227941
07/05/04 06:55 PM
07/05/04 06:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,695
A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
veteran
AlrikFassbauer  Offline
veteran
A

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,695
Not every country has this, to put your game back and get your money back. Here in Germany for example most shops exclude that.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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