Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) Suggestions Money for Larian

Hi everyone,

This is just something I've been kicking around in my head for the last few weeks and I thought I would post it here and see what you all think.

Let me start by saying that I don't know exactly how the gaming industry works, however the small snippets I've read over the years leave me with the distinct impression that some developers end up with a very small portion of the asking price of their games. It is also my understanding that poor sales despite critical acclaim for games leaves small, obscure developers only a few steps away from the poor house, and they end up being dissolved and their employees go their separate ways because their hard work just isn't paying the bills anymore.

I must admit that I fear Larian falls into the category of small developer struggling to 'make it big'. Whether this means they are only doing 'okay' or are living a very comfortable life as a result of DD's success, I can't say for sure, but if I had to pick one, I would guess they are closer to doing just 'okay' (Swen's intro in the manual implies that money or lack thereof played a big part in both DD and BD's development).

So, having said that, I think that capitalising on the success that Larian have already experienced would be a great idea, as it would allow them to build up more capital for their next game, and arguably give them more breathing room than they have experienced so far. My actual idea is for them to look into merchandising options: printing all sorts of Larian artwork, BD and DD logos and characters etc on T-shirts, mugs, mousepads, anything that will take it. Hell, maybe they could even hold a fan art competition and print the winning entry onto a shirt and give the winner a portion of the takings for that particular shirt. As a fan, I know that I would love to own a coffee mug or a T-shirt with my favourite developer's logo on it.

You get the idea. I know the idea of merchandising will bring on a few inevitable groans, but it's a good idea as I suspect profit margins per item are higher than on games and they are not as difficult to produce. I would LOVE to support Larian in this regard (ie I will gladly buy their goods), and think a lot of you would like to as well.

Just an idea. Would love to hear what you all think, so please, go wild.

Thanks for listening!

Cheers

PS: If my assumptions on Larian's liquidity are incorrect, please correct me. I am sure some of you have noticed that we don't usually hear about that sort of thing until we hear our favourite developer is going under, so there is definitely room for speculation.

PPS: I do not work for any company that could remotely assist in this endeavour if Larian decide to pursue it, so please don't think I am suggesting this for my own gain. I simply want to help Larian, and think this might be a good way to do it.

[color:"pink"] Money for Larian [/color]

If all the members of this forum would send just 1 € to Larian Studios, they would get 4455 €.
It's not too bad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

I think its a very good idea, I know i would be the first one in line to buy a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> and a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> T-shirt, cap, coffee mug, poster.... whatever they come up with... and its something that will be very easily accomplished, all the art is done, there is little or no change to convert the art images to a format that silkscreeners can use, the cost of digitizing for embroydery is also minimal compared to what you can charge for a embroydered logo, instead of a silkscreened one...

And i am also very sure that most people wouldnt mind paying a decent price for accessories as long as its a decent quality.

As for marketing research... the most common accessories in demand is:

1. T Shirts (normally either the normal black with the BD picture on, or various forms of lighter shirts with the larian logo and lighter logo's on)

2. Caps (they have been a all time favourite since the dawn of time

3. Jackets (yes a bit more expensive, but well appreciated and they make out brilliant advertsing especially during the colder seasons.

4. Coffee mugs - its like drinking out of a trophy....

5. here is a new idea that is not featured by most games (though comics are famous for using it, and it WORKS) Swords, Axes, Shields, and other armour and weapon sets. A sword (especially a collectors item) , lets say like a famous sword featured in the game, fetches a handsome price in most fantasy shops, and i know where i live, most people have their famous swords on the wall in the living room, along with that battle axe and shield. (I am married to one of the compulsive sword collectors and know many more)

And i presume i am fairly close to the mark when i say that most people who LOVE BD, are also the type of people who love just about any fantasy object. (we are considered by some to be a little gothic compared to the rest of the world)...

So please, let us know what you think, and please come up with more ideas of items that would sell.

ITs not only the selling of the items that counts here, its free advertising for larian too. If we want BD to become the chart topper, we also have to help with the advertising of their products and i can think of no better way, that to prowl around in a nice T-shirt with the game-name (decent picture that makes you want to hack some monsters), and a web address on.


On top of all this i have to congrats Deon for the marketing ideas. South africans just KNOW how to create a market where none were before <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

I don't know... Sound like a kind of milking franchise to me. Would make them seem like sell-outs...

Well, I can already honestly say I wouldn't buy a shirt, cap or coffee mug... I mean, the reason I like Larian is the games... not the logo <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Though I personally prefer clothes without any corporate logo's or names on them. I don't want to be a walking advertisment...

I'm against anything that includes the use of a credit card. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

Without it - fine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I certainly would have interest in some products to help support Larian in developing future games. Here are some of the things that I would definatelty purchase and what I consider a fair price in US dollars:

Coffee Mug: $10 - $15 (maybe with the picture of Samuel standing outside his Citadel on the mug)

A Jewel Case: $10 (that will hold Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity, & Divinity 2 CDs. And the Larian Games Logo on the case)

A Book of DD and BD area maps: $10 - $15 ($20 if it includes a signed picture of the development team)

A chair that does not make my bum sore after 12 hours of playing: (price negotiable)

I think these items would be rather cheap for Larian to have made (except the chair), and could bring them a few extra coins to keep the great RPGs coming.

@Grim ,
i should watch out for the chair part.
Some @Larians have something against chairs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> (long story)

But , i don't think that the time is ready for merchandizing.
maybe in Amerika this is more "common" then back here in Europe.
Heck i bet you can buy a T-shirt saying "I survived Halflive2" or something like that.
But i have the feeling, we don't buy these things.
exept for the REALY REALY commercialized stuff, like finding NEMO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

some suggestions:
- The Larian spicy "appelflappen" : take a evil bite into the pits of hell!
- The Larian studions "developer action dolls".
- Larian ice cream. the ice cream itself is made of a 2D background, but the chocolat chunks are in 3D <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />
- New! Everybody has those removable covers for there portable phones (nokia etc..)
Larian studios goes beyond that. buy the origional Larian computer monitor covers! TFT, CRT, we got them all!
- Some sexy tanga slips with in the front a picture of a pink deathknight

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Whaouh i want one for my boyfriend ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

@ barta -> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> u're one of the funniest ladies ever! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

I'll have a mug please, and some swimshorts and what about a nice mouse mat.and, and ,and....

I'll have the Death Knight action figure!

Pull his string, listen to him insult you!!

Comes with 15 different insults designed to build character in your child!!!

*warning - pointy sword may cause blindness when poked in sisters eye! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" />

I want one for me! The DK would be a great threat <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

@ Barta <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Not to rain on anyone's parade but has anyone considered the legal issues involved in merchandising? Who exactly holds the copyright on the story? Most often the author hasn't sold (if they are smart, that is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />) away all rights which includes the merchandising options on products (also includes movie and TV rights, etc.) that are 'spun off' from an idea they created. Trust me! I'm a writer and I NEVER sell ALL rights. So, it would be wise to ask Larian if this is an idea worth the time and effort.

And secondly, we have to consider the author's wishes. What rights did Rhianna sell? (And, she may not be willing to see her characters merchandised in such a way). If the story is not originally from the developer (and sometimes they aren't), they usually purchase the electronic rights from the author. (I have a contract now with a game developer for a series I have developed) In other words, that same story's other rights are still available for sale through other media. (TV, movie, print, etc.).

Everyone still with me now? LOL So, as you can see, this is not a simple matter. Then again, I'm all for helping out our fellow man, but there are hundreds of thousands of people in this world who need $$ for mere survival, let alone to insure our own entertainment value.

Just a few thoughts.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Yes there are always legal issues involved, but it would be a sad world if legal issues stunted all ideas.

Merchandising is a great idea, and even though it might not be big in Europe, we dealing global market here... South Africa, America, Aus and probably numerous other countries that i havnt been to (so i cant speak for them), LOVE wearing t-shirts and other accessories of their favourite games, movies, characters, and whatever else seems cool at the time. Even half my t-shirt collection is made up of some form of merchandised logo/picture or something... and i am not big on buying those....

Yes i agree that finding out from Larian if this is an idea worth persuing is a good idea or possible at all, but i dont think we will have to do much in that line, since the whole team frequent the forum, they will pick up on it..

And i am sure they will let us know what their thoughts are about it...

Some one get Peter Jackson on the line for a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> movie. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

Well, sorry if I gave the impression I was stunting ideas. That's not what I meant. I just think before anyone goes racing off to the idea bank it's good to know who the original concept belongs to. The person who began this thread had a great idea in the hopes that it would benefit Larian as a company. Rhianna wrote the novella. All I was saying it's not clear who legally owns the property and in today's world that is a merchandising concern.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

My appologies if i took it the wrong way.

I just feel that legal issues are there to be sorted out, one way or another, there is always a compromise that can be made and a agreement that can be made....

I just feel that something like this would give Larian the publicity internationally to get them so well known, that their game sales also tripple.

Other than the fact that I would LOVE to own some BD accessories, I would LOVE to see Larian get the acknowlegement that they deserve.

If it was just the idea of owning a BD cup, i could just as well scan the picture off the game cover, take it to a silscreener and $2 later have a cup...

But yes, Deon came up with a very good idea, and i would like it if Larian looks into that, it has great potential.

Legalities aside, it's still fun the dream! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When I posted the idea all I really envisioned was t-shirts and coffee mugs with the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> logo on them, that's all. Even if the initial idea is expanded to include other things like pics of the DK striking badass poses with "If you think I'm bad, just wait 'til you HEAR me" written underneath him, I don't see it being a problem from a legal perspective. Larian is full of reasonable, intelligent people, and even if they have to split the take with Rhianna, I am sure it will still be enough to help them with their development costs.

Then again, they might consider doing something like this as selling out, and the idea will never see the light of day. Whatever happens, I know Larian will do what's best for Larian. I just don't want them to starve after all the effort they poured into this game.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />Actually, I wish someone would do an article on the financial aspects of the games industry since that is something I have NEVER read an article on, despite my many years of loyalty to Gamespot and Avault. Maybe I will write to Geoff Keighley and ask him to do one... his Behind the Games articles on Gamespot are nothing short of brilliant (at least I think so!).

I would like to know A) How much a lead designer on a computer game earns, B) how much the developer actually sees of the 40 or so dollars each game costs and C) how many programmers, animators, artists etc the average game takes, what their average salaries are and how much those salaries cost a developer in the 2 - 4 years it takes to produce a decent game.

And finally I would love to know from Larian themselves if they know how many copies BD has sold so far. I actually have no idea if there is a way to trace this so early, and if it is hard, then when they will know what the figures are. Failing that, how many copies did Divine Divinity sell and how much of a cut did they get out of it?

Seems to me the biggest cut always goes to the publisher and the dev is left with a much smaller portion of the pie than their efforts are deserving of, which leaves me worrying that making the game comes closer to breaking a small company like Larian than it does to allowing its employees to bathe in gold coins and relax in the lap of luxury in preparation for the sequel's creation.

As for the selling out argument, I am sorry, these people are in this to make money as much as they are in it to make games other people enjoy. So what if they capitalise on their success and dabble in a little merchandising, I thought that is what western society strives for, success and the ability to make more money out of it?

I am going to stop here before this turns into a full-blown rant. I just wanted to feed back some of my thoughts on this thread and its replies. Thanks for the feedback so far!

Actually, Deon - it's a fabulous idea. Sorry if I gave the impression it wasn't because I mentioned the legal aspects. But you're right, having T-shirts bearing the <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> logo would be terrific, as well as other ideas people have shared. And I also agree with you about the reasonableness of both parties, Rhianna and the Larians. Perhaps this is something they have considered and are brainstorming the many ways in which they could merchandise their products. Maybe they want to wait until DD2. I don't know. But at any rate, I think you have an extremely feasible concept.



Don't apologize. Some of this information can be found in the business and financial pages of different magazines and newspapers. And I'm curious about all of the topics you included in your post. I do know from experience that counting sales can be a time consuming process because of there are various venues through which games are sold. I.e., through websites, in gaming stores and also the different ways people pay for the games they buy. With my publisher, the $$ comes from many different companies, websites and e-commerce. Sometimes they [the bean counters *g*] don't know the exact quantity sold because you also have to include any that are returned [by the retailer] to the publisher. It's the same way bookstores buy books. The ones they don't sell are returned to the publisher and often times, if they over-ordered, the author actually gets a chance to buy back their own work (if royalties have already been paid) for nominal fees. If that happens, then the author has the opportunity to sell those books on their own through their website, garage sales, (lol) or give-aways to family and friends. So, it's quite possible Larian won't know how many copies of BD have actually sold. It will probably take a few months to get an accurate figure and total amount of games that were sold.

I did read an article in Reuter's business section about the video game industry and total sales within the industry were close to $80 billion last year. (Maybe even higher than that.) That's a huge market. As to who gets what part of the pie, I know for the game I'm working on, I'll get a royalty which is a percentage of the total sales after it's published. I know this is how most print publishers pay their authors but I'm not sure how it works in the gaming industry for their programmers, head coordinator, lead designer and so on. I would be interested in seeing an article about this subject as well. If I were better informed, I'd love to write the article myself! LOL But I'm afraid I don't know enough nor do I have the contacts to do a proper search for information on a topic such as this. I'm much better writing reviews and stuff for Op/Ed pages of newspapers and magazines. (A lucrative way to get published, btw).

In any event, thanks for posting your ideas. I've really enjoyed this discussion and people's opinions. Good stuff!


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />