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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Winterfox] #235805
06/06/04 02:20 PM
06/06/04 02:20 PM
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Faralas Offline
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Quote:

No, this is what she said:

Quote:

I think that the main problem writers have is that they can not read. Yeap. Cause they think that their work is better than the others.




So, I asked her if she was generalizing and including every author. She said no, and that she had one specific person in mind; I asked just who exactly. She said "There is no need for clarification at all. It is obvious."

The only author whose work has been discussed in this thread is Leather_Raven. Since Lucretia persists in not defining the individual, it's either an insult toward someone, or some obscure arcane ninja secret. Incidentally, I find it amusing that some people got defensive of Leather_Raven; my critiques hardly included personal attacks, and weren't even remotely pugnacious.




This discussion has gone so far off topic, that pasting the icon next to this sentence is an understatement.

This is ridiculous because whatever Lucretia's answer is, it won't satisfy Winterfox. If you truly want to dissect the art and craft of writing and/or whom each of you considers good authors, then do so. But this incessant fishing on your part, Winterfox is non-productive. It's obvious Lucretia has not answered your question to your satisfaction. And at this point, I doubt she will. So, drop it or better yet, take it to the PMs.


Faralas






Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Faralas] #235806
06/06/04 03:18 PM
06/06/04 03:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,396
At the top of the Eiffel Tower
Barta Offline OP
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Quote:

This discussion has gone so far off topic, that pasting the icon next to this sentence is an understatement.



When i opened this thread i could not imagine that it was going to be so much successful

Of course it is off-topic but these discussions about fantastic litterature and the difficulties to be a writer are very interesting for everybody in the forum.

About the novella, i did not have time to read it for the moment but i enjoy very much the dialogs written by Rhianna in Beyond divinity.

Barta

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Barta] #235807
06/06/04 05:10 PM
06/06/04 05:10 PM
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Sorry I am late but I was asleep. Well Faralas spoke for me. Why I will not give an answer? Mainly because I respect older forum members in here. And if their desire is this to stop I will be the first to do it. Other than that I don't want to. Because I like so. My opinion on the novella is already expressed as far as the topic is concerned and whoever has any questions my pm is wide open. If I am in the mood, I might answer.

*Lucretia hands the sarcasm detector back to Winterfox*
Keep it. You will need it more than me.

@ Kiya
You will never stop amazing me.

*Lucretia stretches*
Better get some coffee.


Last edited by LUCRETIA; 06/06/04 06:03 PM.

You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: LUCRETIA] #235808
06/06/04 07:58 PM
06/06/04 07:58 PM
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Canada
D
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Quote:

*Lucretia stretches*
Better get some coffee.




Of course the famous greek coffee! Nevertheless, nothing beats a generous cup of Earl Grey with lemon.
Did you know the best way to wake up? Quickly bite into a lemon. I guarantee it would keep you awake for at least a week .

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: LUCRETIA] #235809
06/06/04 08:00 PM
06/06/04 08:00 PM
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Seattle
LewsTherinKinslayer13 Offline
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Bravo.



Re: @ Rhianna [Re: DEATHATTHEDOOR] #235810
06/06/04 08:04 PM
06/06/04 08:04 PM
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Rogue Squadron
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Vividly imagine the taste works qite good, too !



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: @ Rhianna [Re: DEATHATTHEDOOR] #235811
06/06/04 08:09 PM
06/06/04 08:09 PM
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@ DATD
Oh I am sorry I don't disagree that green tea is very tastefull but we usually drink it with honey when we are ill. . And there is a species that is growing only in Greek mountains that we call it Mountain Tea and has very curative attributes.
Lemon Hate sour things


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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: LUCRETIA] #235812
07/06/04 02:26 AM
07/06/04 02:26 AM
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to everyone,

while i think winterfox can be very nasty (though honestly i find it makes her more colourful), let's not jump on her like that. it's just her way of saying things, i guess. so please, winterfox, next time do carry a kinder, gentler machine gun.

@ alrik -> dude, i'm sorry that u have to go through that kind of hell (critics literally pissing on your work, like in mel brook's History Of The World Part 1). anyway, winterfox's advice on growing skin is very sound & i do have quite thick a skin. just that i don't know if it can withstand winterfox's acid test. (please, winterfox, i don't want to find out )

@ faralas -> awfully nice of u to relate to us your experiences & letting alrik know that he's not alone in 'who hasn't got pissed by critics?' scenario. i teach computer course & i do get into such sitations when my mind just go blank & i cannot grasp even a thought. oh heck, i gave the students break so i could compose myself & get it over with.

@ kiya -> i'll have to check out those books! it may be more useful to me than winterfox. oh yeah, i GOT problems!

@ winterfox -> don't u dare back out of the forum now. i haven't finish studying your character.

@ deathatthedoor -> dude, are u really reformed? who brain-washed u? where's that nastiness death always wields at the door? man, i swear u're going mellow.

*janggut likes his chilli hot*

Last edited by janggut; 07/06/04 02:27 AM.


......a gift from LaFille......
Re: @ Rhianna [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #235813
07/06/04 02:52 AM
07/06/04 02:52 AM
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Winterfox Offline
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Janggut said:

Quote:

@ winterfox -> don't u dare back out of the forum now. i haven't finish studying your character.




Don't worry; there's a reason I constantly preach "grow skin!" I can take as much as I dish out.

Kiya said:

Quote:

1.: where is your main impact? Words or tone? Why? Because a flaw in the eye of one gamer, might be fun for the other. Sentences used in the form of statements, instead of stating clearly the own subjective point of view tend to be taken as an insult or patronage, thus triggering emotions instead of brains. (Referring to your remarks in brackets)




There are things that are not subjective, however. Take, for instance, a reviewer on FF.net. I've seen many cases where a reviewer -- not myself, mind you -- expresses, very gently and politely, that the author's grammar/punctuation needs serious work. What do the author's rabid fans do? Jump on the poor reviewer and scream expletives.

Barta said:

Quote:

About the novella, i did not have time to read it for the moment but i enjoy very much the dialogs written by Rhianna in Beyond divinity.




She wrote the dialogue in the game, as well? Oh.

Incidentally, I've found a journal that's a fair treasure trove of writing advice: Arin i Asolde.

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Winterfox] #235814
07/06/04 02:53 AM
07/06/04 02:53 AM
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Seattle
LewsTherinKinslayer13 Offline
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She wrote the dialogue in the game, as well? Oh.
--------

whats that suppoused to mean?




BTW, Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert

Last edited by LewsTherinKinslayer13; 07/06/04 02:56 AM.


Re: @ Rhianna [Re: janggut] #235815
07/06/04 03:00 AM
07/06/04 03:00 AM
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London, England
Elliot_Kane Offline
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I liked the Novella, personally

Being something of an amateur writer myself, I know that writers tend to judge themselves more keenly than any critic ever will. On the day you decide your work is perfect, your talent vanishes. Self satisfaction is the death of creativity.

A writer may believe themselves better (Or worse) than other writers, but no writer worthy of the name is ever completely satisfied with their own work


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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: LewsTherinKinslayer13] #235816
07/06/04 03:05 AM
07/06/04 03:05 AM
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janggut Offline
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Quote:

BTW, Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert Frank Herbert


famous quote by Lews

err... dude, u're stating the overly obvious. winterfox loves frank herbert's dune. or are u implying something else?



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: @ Rhianna [Re: janggut] #235817
07/06/04 03:08 AM
07/06/04 03:08 AM
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Hmm, what do you mean, what are you talking about?



Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Elliot_Kane] #235818
07/06/04 03:40 AM
07/06/04 03:40 AM
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Elliot_Kane said:

Quote:


A writer may believe themselves better (Or worse) than other writers, but no writer worthy of the name is ever completely satisfied with their own work




Exactly. I can say, with reasonable confidence, that I can write better than a number of people -- but that's not much of an achievement, considering that these people in question type like an untrained ape banging its fists randomly on the keyboard. I can also name a lot of amateur writers who are way, way ahead of me. And I'll never, ever, be completely happy with anything I've produced. Always there is room for improvement.

Lews said:

Quote:

whats that suppoused to mean?




I didn't know that she wrote the dialogue in the game, too. Yes, yes, do hand me a clue, and next time I'll look at the credits first.

As for Frank Herbert -- hey, I love Dune very, very much. (Though God Emperor of Dune was... well.) What about it?

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Winterfox] #235819
07/06/04 03:50 AM
07/06/04 03:50 AM
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Elliot_Kane Offline
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Quote:

Elliot_Kane said:

Quote:


A writer may believe themselves better (Or worse) than other writers, but no writer worthy of the name is ever completely satisfied with their own work




Exactly. I can say, with reasonable confidence, that I can write better than a number of people -- but that's not much of an achievement, considering that these people in question type like an untrained ape banging its fists randomly on the keyboard. I can also name a lot of amateur writers who are way, way ahead of me. And I'll never, ever, be completely happy with anything I've produced. Always there is room for improvement.




I completely agree, Winterfox. A 'true' writer's attitude, IMO


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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Elliot_Kane] #235820
07/06/04 03:58 AM
07/06/04 03:58 AM
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Quote:

I completely agree, Winterfox. A 'true' writer's attitude, IMO




Even more fun -- have you ever agonized over a single word in a single sentence for minutes, rather than just go ahead and finish the bloody passage already? I've had several occasions where a metaphor is desperately strained, or a sentence is hopelessly awful, and it takes several tinkerings to get out something that wouldn't set people's teeth on edge or stick out like a sore thumb.

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Winterfox] #235821
07/06/04 04:04 AM
07/06/04 04:04 AM
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Elliot_Kane Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I completely agree, Winterfox. A 'true' writer's attitude, IMO




Even more fun -- have you ever agonized over a single word in a single sentence for minutes, rather than just go ahead and finish the bloody passage already? I've had several occasions where a metaphor is desperately strained, or a sentence is hopelessly awful, and it takes several tinkerings to get out something that wouldn't set people's teeth on edge or stick out like a sore thumb.




Only all the time!

The whole line just reads wrong for some odd reason and you know there is a better word somewhere and it's right on the tip of your tongue...

And there is no blasted way you could possibly leave it and get back to it, because it will devour all your concentration until it's dealt with...

Writer's Hell


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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Elliot_Kane] #235822
07/06/04 04:12 AM
07/06/04 04:12 AM
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Only all the time!

The whole line just reads wrong for some odd reason and you know there is a better word somewhere and it's right on the tip of your tongue...

And there is no blasted way you could possibly leave it and get back to it, because it will devour all your concentration until it's dealt with...

Writer's Hell




Yes!

Worse yet, I'm frequently struck with the procrastination demon. I know I can finish this scene; I have all the words ready to fire -- but they just don't want to come out. My attention keeps getting diverted by something else, and before I know it, two hours have already passed and nothing's gotten done. Argh.

Another quirk is when the story runs away. Take the fanfic linked in my signature. Originally, I set out to write something fairly short. Like ten chapters, maximum. Now what I end up is a lot of plot threads -- fourteen chapters, four interludes and counting. The characters begin to write themselves and sometimes do what I didn't plan for them to do at all. It's fun, and writing such a thing provides as much surprise for me as for the reader, but I despair at the indication of my organizational skill.

Re: @ Rhianna [Re: LewsTherinKinslayer13] #235823
07/06/04 04:17 AM
07/06/04 04:17 AM
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are u trying to say that u recommended frank herbert's books? or do u want to point out weaknesses in his works? or how he cannot take criticism? or i don't know?

if u're just as perplexed, then never mind my post.

@ winterfox -> about your KOTOR fanfic & especially your allegedly(sp?) disorganisation, well, i hope u just write it all out & not worry about self-imposed limitations. there're always the editor & critique to slash them all to bits. in another words; i honestly think u cannot write well while chanting '5000 words' incessantly. or have u done so?

Last edited by janggut; 07/06/04 04:29 AM.


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Re: @ Rhianna [Re: Winterfox] #235824
07/06/04 04:22 AM
07/06/04 04:22 AM
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Quote:

Worse yet, I'm frequently struck with the procrastination demon. I know I can finish this scene; I have all the words ready to fire -- but they just don't want to come out. My attention keeps getting diverted by something else, and before I know it, two hours have already passed and nothing's gotten done. Argh.

Another quirk is when the story runs away. Take the fanfic linked in my signature. Originally, I set out to write something fairly short. Like ten chapters, maximum. Now what I end up is a lot of plot threads -- fourteen chapters, four interludes and counting. The characters begin to write themselves and sometimes do what I didn't plan for them to do at all. It's fun, and writing such a thing provides as much surprise for me as for the reader, but I despair at the indication of my organizational skill.




All good characters want to have input in the story They seem to take on a life of their own inside your mind, and add lines and come up with plans when you don't really expect them to...

I know what you mean about story stretch! You plan on a short conversation, but your character(s) have a lot more to say than you ever imagined and before you know it, you run out of the current chapter and have to start a new one

I tend to just let them get on with telling their story in their own way! The end result is usually better for it

Writing is kind of like freeform acting on paper, IMO


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