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I usually prefer a kind of "hit & run"-technique : Put it online and disappear again, so that I leave the people with my text alone. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> And then I need not worry about bad critics as well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

If I write for my self, I'm not dependent on what people say; my ego is then rather independent from the critics. I think this is a plus.


What? Isn't that contradictory? If you have to "worry about bad critics" and use "hit-and-run tactic", then evidently you are -- or your ego is -- affected in some manner.

Me, as I said, you don't get to choose your audience. Found critics you don't like? Too bad. Deal with it. Grow skin.

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As interesting as this topic is, you could type about it until your fingers turn blue (equivalent of talking to blue in the face I suppose <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />) and still be going in circles.

But everyone's different and has their own opinions, likes and dislikes. We could even all like the one thing (book for example) and even then like it but not for the same reasons as each other.

Sometimes the more forcefully an opinion is stated by a person, the more forceful the reply...or even in a lot of cases the originator of the first opinion sees other peoples replies as being an attack (even slightly) or their own opinion even when it wasn't intended as such...and things will start spiraling from then on until someone loses the plot.

Some good opinions (all valid of course...especially in that we are all different individuals) but stating them once should be enough. Unless I'm openly rude to someone (which I'll attempt never to be) I don't want to see or read someone else's disgruntled response to any opinions. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Plowking #235767 04/06/04 01:58 PM
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This whole post reminds me of a very funny quote I have to thank Faile for:

"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

Like Winterfox says. Grow a skin. Critique is something you get for anything you write. Learn to deal or you'll end up very angry at someone you don't even know. Which is pointless. Something I have learned since I started forum browsing.

And yes, I've made angry posts in the past myself. I'll try to live by my own words more in the future.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
Yannos #235768 04/06/04 02:21 PM
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Oh is it called The Wizard's First rule in America? I always thought it was called "Sword of Truth". And yeah, sometimes it might be cliched but I like the roughness of the story, meaning all the stuff you wouldn't see in most fantasy books like the killing, language and a lot sexual content. Just made it look more medieval and gritty to me.


The first book is titled "Wizard's First Rule". The whole series is called "Sword of Truth" - so you were correct! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />

Womble #235769 04/06/04 02:24 PM
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It's true that it's hard not to react in anger sometimes when you 'feel' attacked by a post or comment.

I've done it too, but really try to hold back these days. As you say womble it is pointless.

I understand the comment grow a skin...but that's a difficult thing to do sometimes...just because someone has a thick skin towards things doesn't mean all should or will have one. Like saying to a shy person 'its easy just go and talk to them'. But it's not easy...but yes do grow a skin, or better way to say it, be more mindful or the reasons for the criticism and don't attack back.

It's a public forum and all should be more respectful towards the other people, thick or thin skinned, good or indifferent English...it doesn't matter.

If I'm flamed for a post I accept it IF in my post I directly stepped with intention on the toes of the person responding. If it's an unjustified flame the 'growing a skin' is not attacking back...it's either saying nothing and never worrying about it or just explaining simply how you didn't mean it in that context...or whatever!

Sorry for the long wind...I've just seen to many threads closed on forums because someone loses the plot!

Plowking #235770 04/06/04 02:33 PM
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Those George Martin books sound great from the comments here...I'll be checking them out for sure.

Winterfox #235771 04/06/04 02:50 PM
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On other things: the "I write for myself" thing has always puzzled me. IMO, if you put up your work for public consumption, it is implicit that you want feedback. If you wrote for yourself, you'd have kept your writing to yourself. This is especially true for professionally published writing: to put it bluntly and harshly, you're writing something to sell. And you don't get to choose your audience; anything in public view is fair game and subject to all type of criticism. The public is about as loving and caring as a rusty iron maiden, and editors are not obliged to be humane or even remotely nice. (I've read someone else's rejection slip that doesn't say much aside from -- paraphrased -- "your writing is frankly infantile." You think I'm harsh? Meet disgruntled editors who have to read hundreds of submitted manuscripts from hopeful aspiring writers.)


I write for a living and yes, you do choose your audience. Maybe not personally or individual by individual but you have to have a target audience in mind not only when you go to publish, but when you're writing it. If you don't, your chances of ever getting published are close to zero. Publishing houses publish material related to their specific genre. Most small to mid size publishing houses are genre specific because print publication is extremely expensive. And one subject is easier to and less costly to manage than 2 or 3. Electronic publication is broken down differently in terms of cost.

Some of the editors I have dealt with have the personality of a piece of chalk. Others are more receptive and willing to work with an author. It depends on the editor, the market and sometimes the genre. And some of the stuff they get thrown over their transom is swill. Some writers don't take the time to read the publisher's guidelines (an absolute must if you're to be taken seriously). Some don't even take the time to run their work through a spell checker. And more often than not, a lot of writers have never read a book on grammar. So, sometimes I can empathize with editors and why they get snarky.

IMO, 'writing for myself' can be interepreted several different ways. When I hear someone say "I write for myself," I think they mean they write things that they like to read. Not for self-aggrandizement or to stroke an overblown ego.

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I'm also -- no offense -- leery around anyone who claims that his/her writing is "art" and is therefore, somehow, not subject to criticism. Common excuses include, "But you can't possibly understand what I'm trying to convey!" or "But this is my style -- if I listen to your critiques, I'd become a mindless conformist drone!" Nope. E.E. Cummings you are not; win a Pulitzer Prize or something first and maybe your argument will have merits. ...


Authors have to develop a thick skin if they want to be successful in the publishing industry. Everyone is going to criticize your work whether you want it or not. But I think there is an art to the craft of writing and weaving a storyline. However, that art can be appreciated for what it is, go unnoticed by the reader or picked apart by people who enjoy doing so. Writing for a living is not an easy job. It takes self-motivation, discipline and learning the marketing side of writing. That's the part most 'writers' forget when they sit down to write their first article, short story or novel. The work doesn't automatically grow legs, walk out the door and sell itself. (Although some people think their work is so great, it could). No. To be a successful writer who wants to make money, you need to study marketing trends, target your audience, read similar authors' work and frankly, learn that genre inside and out. And if you're involved in a niche market (like I am), you have to get involved even deeper because the market is that much more defined.

Anyway, I didn't mean to blather on. But that seems to be what I do best.



Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />


Faralas #235772 04/06/04 03:23 PM
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I'bve had one very strange incident which I still cannot understand.

It was during my training and we (or class) had to prepare and perform a presentation.

I did mine, and received critics.

However, what I still don't understand - and tht has nothing to do with "skin" or not - was my reaction towards that. I feeled that I had failed.

The only expression I've comme across in the internet to describe what I did is "to freak out". I still don't understand why I had the feeling as if this critic was hitting me to the core , and yes : I definitively mean core. I still don't understand why I reacted so intensively towards relatively rational, unemotional and understandable critics.

I still don't understand or know why I felt this way - being hit so deep - and reconstructing the thing in order to find a clue proved more or less pointless.

The only possible clue I have is that there was no positive criticism (right spelled ?) , but I still don't know.

My feeling was not only that I had failed, by that my work, and everything, including my life, was totally pointless. Being already "hardened" at that point, I could overcome it during several days, otherwise I just would've jumped off the next bridge.

This is no joke ! I *really* felt that at this point !

I still fear that I might have the same strange thing happening to me. And remembering the intense hurting I wouldn't be able to say whether I would really jump off the next bridge or not.

I still don't know what had hurt me so intensively deep; but I fear to re-life this feeling again.

I can deal with critics, okay, but I still cannot say what might be triggered within me when I read them.

That's my story.

Alrik.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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I'bve had one very strange incident which I still cannot understand.

It was during my training and we (or class) had to prepare and perform a presentation.

I did mine, and received critics.

However, what I still don't understand - and tht has nothing to do with "skin" or not - was my reaction towards that. I feeled that I had failed.


Was that a marked presentation? If I do a marked presentation, I always do it for the teacher and don't give a dog biscuit about the rest. I get a good mark? Good! I get a bad one? I don't care, I did my best.
If it's not marked, I care even less: I won't get a bad mark so why to break if someone doesn't like your work?

I realise you must've put a lot of work in your presentation if the critics left you devastated but you must get used to that. The public in general is stupid. It's obvious, logical and sooner or later you'll understand it.
They brag for innovation but when the innovation comes, they run in fear.
Example: Giordano Bruno, Richard Wagner, H.P. Lovecraft, Mozart, Chuck Berry... I can site on and on but you get the point. I cannot see your presentation, maybe it's not good. Maybe it is good, but nevertheless: remember the Wizard's First Rule®: People are stupid.



And winterfox: I agree with Lucretia: many "writers" can't read. I don't mean they have insufficient knowledge of the alphabet, but I mean they are unable to read; after they wrote, they simply cannot read what they wrote and see what's wrong.

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It was the last test for the presentation we all should perform as part of the final testing of our training.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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But who defines what's good writing or not? Is it the reader or some English college professer?

I consider myself reasonably intelligent but when a pretentious writer butchers each of their sentences with a thesaurus it can become unreadable, even if you know what the words mean the flow can be lost because it reads like a dictionary instead.

Yes I agree too that some readers can't read back their own work and think...'that just sounds completely thick!' Instead they chuckle to themselves and think...'oh aren't I intelligent...he he he!'

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Exactly. It not the amount of fancy words you stick in there. Its what you say that matters. Some people just like to confuse and aggrivate others. Delight in it, in fact. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
Plowking #235777 04/06/04 03:57 PM
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Oh, and translating is not easy as well ... especially considering so-called "Idioms" ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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I'bve had one very strange incident which I still cannot understand.

It was during my training and we (or class) had to prepare and perform a presentation.

I did mine, and received critics.

However, what I still don't understand - and tht has nothing to do with "skin" or not - was my reaction towards that. I feeled that I had failed.

The only expression I've comme across in the internet to describe what I did is "to freak out". ..."

I can deal with critics, okay, but I still cannot say what might be triggered within me when I read them.

That's my story.

Alrik.


Alrik, I've had a similar reaction while I was at a speaking engagement. I completely and totally 'locked' up when someone asked a question and I 'blanked' out on the answer. I felt like everything up to that point in my life that I had done was complete and utter junk and because I froze, that proved that I was a failure and somehow a fraud. I was able to get through the moment by making a joke out of it, but it really left a mark on me.

I think that happens to a lot of people so whatever you do, don't jump off any bridge. You're not alone. I belong to a writer's group. Two of the members are well-known authors of 'how to' books. One of them had a similar experience to yours. She said she was afraid that maybe everything she's ever written was wrong and somehow she was a big phoney. Turns out one of her biggest fears in life is that she's a fraud. I could relate to her fear because that's how I felt standing in front of a room full of people and I drew a complete blank.

Maybe that has something to do with your reaction. I found it comforting in an odd way to know that this woman felt that vulnerable even though she puts hours of research into every one of her books. It comes with the territory.


Faralas <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mage.gif" alt="" />


Winterfox #235779 04/06/04 06:54 PM
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Uhm, I'm sorry, but are you including every single author into this blanket statement? Because you know, most writers start off reading, and reading a lot. Some of the professional authors I've met on the 'Net are avid readers; this I know for a fact. Unpublished authors? Dur; the first advice you're given is to read, read, and read some more.


Nope. I had only one specific in my mind.

@ Janggut
I thank you. You seem to have a good memory since that is something I have explained and apologized many many times.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

LUCRETIA #235780 04/06/04 07:30 PM
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all i know is that rhianna pratchet is hot and I hope shes single and likes rich, handsome, talented men(me)

hansolo #235781 04/06/04 07:53 PM
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

I think you maybe 'hand-soloing' for a while longer matey...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
Faralas #235782 04/06/04 08:22 PM
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Thanks, Farals, I didn't know that this feeling was relatively common.

But anyway, I still fear that feeling.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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Alrik. Anxiety about public speaking or 'stage fright' is very common. In fact I think everyone has it at some point in their lives.

It happened to me a few years ago. Not because it was my first presentation. Because I got cocky and didn't prepare well enough. I thought I could ad-lib through it but ended up gibbering a load of nonsense. Pretty embarrassing... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />


" Road rage, air rage. Why should I be forced to divide my rage into seperate categories? To me, it's just one big, all-around, everyday rage. I don't have time for distinctions. I'm too busy screaming at people. " -George Carlin
Womble #235784 04/06/04 11:21 PM
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />

I think you maybe 'hand-soloing' for a while longer matey...... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Touche!

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