Larian Studios Forums General Chat @ Rhianna

DEATHATTHEDOOR said:



I still stand by what I said: many writers are their own worst critics, because they can't see the real flaws, but rather, perceive imagined ones. Of course, there's a reason editors/beta-readers exist. (And if you're a writer and have a good, honest one, by whatever deity that you worship, cherish and treasure him/her.) Then again, there're also egomaniac authors who think that, after they've published a number of books and harnessed a raving fanbase, editors' input ceases to be valid. (As I said -- Anne Rice.)

Lucretia said:



Please, do clarify.

Alrik said:



Eh, everyone has an attack of insecurity now and then, including me. However, I have a question to ask: did you agree with any, or all of, the criticism you were given? Another query: someone mentioned "adorant" earlier when addressing you. May I ask what it is?

This has been a fabulous read. I do some writing; Highly technical, heavily researched theological articles for one website, and equally well researched game reviews for another. I like to get constructive feedback. Why? I want to improve; I want to do the best job I can and I'll only do that, if I learn from my mistakes. Criticism is a natural part of life. So is failure. We have to learn to handle both, and how we do so, says a great deal about who and what we really are!!

Winterfox said :
Please, do clarify.

Lucretia says :
There is no need for clarification at all. It is obvious.

Adorant is a story that Alrik wrote and kindly shared with us.

Oh, come now, tell the poor uneducated me, please. Surely you wouldn't deny any poor soul of a chance at such profound enlightenment?

Wise words - if I may add => the way HOW we criticize says a lot about who/what we really are, too.
Kiya

Once again (another time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) I must agree with Kiya ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Criticism can be an art : Put so much criticism into it that the criticised one will understand, but also put so much love into it that the criticised one will gain power from the critique.

Another way would be to criticise someone without mercy - the person learns then, too, but the intension is a completely different one.

The latter one could induce the result : "Being criticised is weakness !" thus perhaps leading into emotionless perfectionism.

The fist one could induce : "Being criticised is a chance for making it better !" Thus enhancing ones works meanwhile still being able to put the whole heart into a work.

That's my opinion.

Or it could result in a, "What the hell, I'll grow some skin" response.

Which reminds me of something. Lucretia, are you still around here? I just had a moment of epiphany, donchaknow. Were you directing your little comment at Leather_Raven?

I am always around. No my "little" coment was not refering to Leather_Raven. As I already said with my poor English (perhaps we could continue in Greek, Ancient Greek or Latin, you will not be disapointed then but perhaps... I will be), I liked the novella Leather_Raven wrote. A glass of red wine, some of my very special music and the novella, made 2 afternoons after work very relaxing. But perhaps I should sacrifice all this and start reading the novella trying to find "flaws", mistakes and mesure exactly how much "heart" Leather_Raven have put in this. No thank you.

Strange how "enlightment" works sometimes.

Mmm, want to yak it in Thai? Cantonese, perhaps? You aren't the only multi-lingual person, trust me. *laughs*



Please, my idealist little friend. Believe me, I didn't read the novella with an eye out for nitpicking. But do understand that some people can be a bit more discerning than you are, hmmm?



*hands you a sarcasm detector* You need it.

So be direct, m'friend. If you were referring to me, come out and say it.

Winterfox, please stop this. It has nothing to do with the novella or writing/literary criticism in general now, but is turning into a senseless win or lose of ego banter and would fit the PM level better.
Thank you in advance,
Kiya

Winterfox, How come all you ever do is tear someones grammar apart. Is that how you make yourself feel better?? Last time i heard this was a game forum not a grammar lesson.I know only 1 language but i suppose it makes me less intelligent then you doesnt it??

Half of your posts your commenting on someones grammar. sorry but it gets sickening after a while.Im sure theres many grammar forums you could sign up to. Dont bring grammar into a game forum theres no purpous to it here, especially since theres alot of different countries represented on this forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Okay, which posts, exactly, in this thread did I make that have anything at all to do with grammar?

Kiya said:



Sure, but you know, it takes two to tango. I wasn't the first person to start making ad hominem attacks (ala, making implication of "being unable to read"). I'm also genuinely puzzled if Lucretia was referring to me. I mean, that's cute -- I don't think she's ever read anything of mine, let alone sent me critiques.

Winterfox, I say it again - please stop.
I am not going to insult your excellent memory and spend a lot of time searching posts where you criticized grammar, writing style of gamers here. Same goes for posts in the chat section dealing with a differing opinion about games and the way these were phrased - on both sides, boiling up. You take pride in using pointed remarks - so, a pointed answer is just a "logical" response. As I would put it: fire causes fire. (Come on,... isn't this a bit of the fun you like? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin1.gif" alt="" /> just a wee bit? )

Hey, and a tango entre nous, in private => is far more exciting, don't you think? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> Memorising my dancing lessons from Esme and Nanny Ogg <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> it takes one to ask for a dance and the second to join.
Kiya <putting on her steel nailed witch boots with poisoned caps, stomping the ground and waiting in anticipation>

*coughs* I will not think dirty, I will not think dirty. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I see this is rather gone far for a simple misunderstanding. Watch out, Winterfox: Lucretia can be a fierce opponent. Same goes for Lucretia.
It almost saddens me when I see two excellent forum members (and friends) arguing over something even I lost the grasp of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />.

Peace <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure what the something is, either, which is why I've been asking Lucretia.

What I understood is the following:
When Lucretia spoke of illeterate people, you took it as a direct insult and replied.

Now if Lucretia meant you, when talking about people who can't read, I have no idea. I seriously doubt it, though: it's not for Lucretia to start a flamewar (or sarcasmwar, in this situation).

No, this is what she said:



So, I asked her if she was generalizing and including every author. She said no, and that she had one specific person in mind; I asked just who exactly. She said "There is no need for clarification at all. It is obvious."

The only author whose work has been discussed in this thread is Leather_Raven. Since Lucretia persists in not defining the individual, it's either an insult toward someone, or some obscure arcane ninja secret. Incidentally, I find it amusing that some people got defensive of Leather_Raven; my critiques hardly included personal attacks, and weren't even remotely pugnacious.

Winterfox - a post does not only contain mere info, but the way it is phrased, implements a non-verbal message, targeting emotions. This goes for the written and the spoken word as well.



this one is a very good example to explain what I mean =>

1.: where is your main impact? Words or tone? Why? Because a flaw in the eye of one gamer, might be fun for the other. Sentences used in the form of statements, instead of stating clearly the own subjective point of view tend to be taken as an insult or patronage, thus triggering emotions instead of brains. (Referring to your remarks in brackets)

2.: Veiled messages. Using an information to transport an undercover non-verbal message, turns into a lose-lose ego-battle strategy. Sender sends veiled message, reader/listener responds to the non-verbal one. Sender insists on written/spoken word - the other part still stresses the impact, the veiled message has.

Paul Watzlawick may be available in your country or Schulz von Thun? Both authors wrote about communication psychology.

Watzlawick (from amazon.com):
The Situation Is Hopeless, but Not Serious (The Pursuit of Unhappiness)
How Real Is Real?
Pragmatics of Human Communication: A Study of Interactional Patterns, Pathologies, and Paradoxes
Ultra-Solutions: How to Fail Most Successfully

sadly, Schulz von Thun seems only available on the German market.

Another book, dealing with human interaction is:

Eric Berne: Games people play: The basic handbook of transactional analysis. => it lists transactional analytic "games" people use to misunderstand each other, specializes on the ways how to use phrases/behaviour as a destructive form of interaction - ritualised and tending to cause frustration, as all parties take fun in putting each other down, by mixing up verbal/non-verbal messages - a method mainly caused by own passive-aggressive behaviour and the inability to show inner/outer clarity. (and it's GREAT fun, to use this knowledge in detecting other people play games <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" /> )

Eric Berne: Beyond Games and Scripts => for those wishing clear and honest interaction and being able to choose, which form the other has and how to respond - either by boiling up aggression or starting genuine communication. Or at least to know, which price the sender/listener is willing to pay, if he chooses the one or other level).

Thomas Harris: I'm OK-You're OK => popular psychology to explain human interaction via Transactional Analysis, depending on your own view of life and life pattern.

Kiya

That means if this was interpreted as an attack. Was it the intention so ? I don't know.

First principle of Huna : The world is like you think it is. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />



I agree with that - regarding so-called "high literature". Writers who believe themselves to write "high literature" usually tend to consider Fan Fiction, Children Books and everything else to be "inferior". That's at least my own opinion. You can expand this into Art as well.

I was young and went to a local museum asking whether they would show my works, but no, the woman responsible for tht said, "we usually use arrived artists", in this sense.

I don't know *any* museum exclusively for you, unknown artists - and even for contemporary art you'll have troubles finding some ! Rembrandt and Picasso and Goethe are the big artists, but no-one in the "literary circles" and things like that are interested in young, unkown professionals who bring fresh wind into the scene ! Like a Zombie ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

Okay, this was a bit harsh, but that's my opinio0n, generally speaking. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />