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"Men are animals" #311936
16/07/05 12:52 PM
16/07/05 12:52 PM
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AlrikFassbauer Offline OP
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Um, I've read about a story ... someone gave a link to me.

The background ist that of an interview made with "Ireen von Wachenfeldt, chairman of the national women's refuge organisation ROKS".

In that, she actually acknowledged that she saw men as "men are animals, machines and walking dildos".

The actual story can be found here : http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1505&date=20050527
It's all in English.

Um, is this how far feminism has gone ? Are we males an illness of the women ?

I cannot believe it, what women are able to think.

I get the impression as if the feminism has taken a swing to the other side of the measure. This is no more - as it seems to me - for men and women being treated equally, but seemingly rather "some are more equal than others", to quote George Orwell's satire "Animal Farm".

I'm quite shocked about that.

Alrik.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #311937
16/07/05 02:24 PM
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I saw that documentary (it's from Sweden, showed on SVT, swedish television), and it's pretty scary, even though it's edited. Ireen von Wachenfeldt has resighned due to the documentary. I don't think she is as extreme as the interview sais it is though, I suspect it's been edited so that most of the things she said isn't said in their original form so to say (you onlöy hear the bad quotes, not the questions). From what I've heard later, the interviewer really put her under loads of preshure. The documentary is still pretty scary though, espessially for the stories around the interview with Irene (one story about a women's refuge organisation called Bellas vänner (Bellas friends) who kidnapped two girls, and took them to Norway because they thought they were hunted by satanists). You allso saw a scary interview from a Women's refuge in Umeå with two women who said some really frightening stuff, in the way of: "U used to think that men I met was ok, but now I think they're just like all other men". Scary, really scary...

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311938
16/07/05 03:35 PM
16/07/05 03:35 PM
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well, i didn't saw these intervieuws,
but for wat i know there probably all fanatics/ extremists.
extreme left/ extreme right / extreme male /extreme female...i don't know

But feminism ist that bad, if it defends the rights of the woman who are treatend like animals (afganistan anyone?)
But you can go soo far in this...that in the end ,"man is the epicenter of all evil. (mm, sound like a new movie title )



Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: the_bean] #311939
16/07/05 03:44 PM
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Well I am proud to be an animal


Party animal to be precise


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311940
16/07/05 03:51 PM
16/07/05 03:51 PM
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If i have to be an animal, so i choose to be a Bonobo.

Happy little tots (and both, female and male, are Happy )




Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311941
16/07/05 03:56 PM
16/07/05 03:56 PM
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One can't judge all the men in the same way.
Some men are very great but a lot of men are worse than animals.
It's not good to compare these men to animals because there is no perversion in the animal world.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311942
16/07/05 04:42 PM
16/07/05 04:42 PM
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There are extremists everywhere, whatever their "cause" may be; religion, politics, sex-related issues... And medias are not always so trustworthy; they sometimes do a lot of manipulations for sensationalism... It is hard to know the whole truth.
Maybe are there some women really thinking a such thing, but they're certainly not the majority. Feminism is still meant to be; there are still a lot of places and cases where women are treated horribly by men, like living objects, inferior persons.
As for men being an illness to the women... Males and females are complementary. Not one better than the other, and both as essential; it isn't working otherwise. Like a very acid or basic solution are harmful, but when put togther they make a harmless, neuter one. Maybe men in general are they an illness to the women; but seen like that women are an illness to men as well...



LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311943
16/07/05 05:00 PM
16/07/05 05:00 PM
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Sorry i am not a feminist but with what i can see as a women living in France, i can say that a lot of men are worse than animals.
It's insulting for the animals to be compared with these men.

The world is not as pink and shiny as some of you want to see it.

What do you think about all the women with have to support physic or moral violence from their husband/boyfriend.
What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".
What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.
Do you think that the sexuel slavery would exit if there would be not any men excited by this kind of thing ?

Alrik, Stone or Morbo would answer : "I am not one of those men".
Of course you are not but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.

And don't say that i am an extremist !

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311944
16/07/05 05:24 PM
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You are definitly not an extremist, girl.
It's true that some men do things to hurt the other sex, and I say this from my own experience. Most of the men's brain is not located in their heads, but in their penis.
I don't want to hurt any member here, I like them all very much. But when a woman specificly ask not to watch porn on the internet and her husband does that anyway, isn't that also hurting another as well? Where is the respect and the love?
Men say that it's in their genes to do that, well if you ask me, that is BS!! That certainly doesn't mean that it's ok, right?



Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311945
16/07/05 05:34 PM
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In Antwort auf:

but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.




Right. They DO exist. But it's the same thing as like clichés : You THINK you know one, you know all. No individuality, please.


The worst thing I've heard of is using rape (?) as a "weapon" in war. That's the most cruel thing I can imagine ...


The problem is, that the feminists have achieved *very* much in the last decades - compared to the time before that.

Now, it's the men's turn, imho. That means, that men must start with something like feminism, only towards their own gender (maskulinism ?). That should eventually lead to asking themselves about their role - where there is someone who does the deed (men) , there is a victim, too (women), at least measured against the "Patriarchalic time". So, for a better understanding and better "evoliution", we need BOTH genders to take part and breaking the structures that hinder BOTH in being treated equally.

The problem is, that men are in a state of "maskulinism" at the state where the feminism has been 30-40 years ago ...

That leaves a LOT of work to be done ...



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311946
16/07/05 05:40 PM
16/07/05 05:40 PM
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Ubereil Offline
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Svar till:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .

Svar till:

What do you think about all the women with have to support physic or moral violence from their husband/boyfriend.




Braindead idiots. Probablly psycopaths.

Svar till:

What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".




Braindead idiots. At least showing psycopathic tendenses.

Svar till:

What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.




OK, I mkight not do this (espessially not the bying sex), but if the girls have no problem with this (and I'm talking about the girls involed, the ones who is selling, or the ones on the picture. Or the ones at home wondering what their husband/boyfriend is doing (these are rarelly in on it)), then I can't see the problem really.

Svar till:

Do you think that the sexuel slavery would exit if there would be not any men excited by this kind of thing ?




Probablly not, but there wouldn't be many children either.

I think it was Jang who said that the world is rarelly black or white, it's most often grey.

Übereil

Edit: Just thought of the perfect answer to "Men are animals": So are women .

Last edited by Ubereil; 16/07/05 05:42 PM.

Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311947
16/07/05 05:54 PM
16/07/05 05:54 PM
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Barta Offline
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Quote:

Quote:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .



I don't care being an etremist.

Quote:

Quote:

What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".




Braindead idiots. At least showing psycopathic tendenses.



No they are not. They just want to show that the girls are their slaves.
Some girls have been killed. Other ones are married by force and they are raped by their "husband".

Quote:

Quote:

What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.




OK, I mkight not do this (espessially not the bying sex), but if the girls have no problem with this (and I'm talking about the girls involed, the ones who is selling, or the ones on the picture. Or the ones at home wondering what their husband/boyfriend is doing (these are rarelly in on it)), then I can't see the problem really.



Most of the girls are slaves from Africa or Eastern European countries.
The other ones use to take drugs and they fell in prostitution for money.
In both case it is not a choice.
Stop thinking that the prostitutes have sex because they like it. A lot of them are lesbians.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311948
16/07/05 05:57 PM
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Maybe we must make a difference betwen sick people and that what we call man.
I can say that i have learnd some sick woman in my life. And this is not really better.

And we all know the internet. And we all know that the sexsites are a really big part of the net.
If i see the whole flood of pornsites you came (if you want or not, sooner or later you will be redirected on such sites), i cant belive that these are all victims.
For the most women there this is a Job.
I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311949
16/07/05 06:09 PM
16/07/05 06:09 PM
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Quote:

I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?



I don't know actors of porn movies but i know a lot of men who look at porn movies.
Sometimes it's not good for them because they get complexs about their anatomy.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311950
16/07/05 06:52 PM
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^^ Touché Barta Gods there are moments when I just love you


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: MeaCulpa] #311951
16/07/05 07:10 PM
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Some quote some one told me:

Can't we just agree that regardless of sex we all are idiots?


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311952
16/07/05 08:11 PM
16/07/05 08:11 PM
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Stone Offline
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Sometimes it's not good for them because they get complexs about their anatomy.


Really? Why?





Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311953
16/07/05 09:30 PM
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Svar till:

Svar till:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .



I don't care being an etremist.




Doh !

Svar till:


No they are not. They just want to show that the girls are their slaves.
Some girls have been killed. Other ones are married by force and they are raped by their "husband".




OK, remove 'braindead' and insert 'pagan'. And how can they be married by force? That sounds illegal to me.

Svar till:

Most of the girls are slaves from Africa or Eastern European countries.
The other ones use to take drugs and they fell in prostitution for money.
In both case it is not a choice.
Stop thinking that the prostitutes have sex because they like it. A lot of them are lesbians.




If they're in it to get money for drugs, then it's the drugs who is the problem, not the prostitution, or the men for that sake. If they're slaves, thenthey're probablly not in it by their own will, and most likelly have a problem with it.

I don't think they're in it because they like it, but some of them ARE in it in their free will, and if pepole want tobuy sex from them, then I think it's allright. In the other casesw it isn't the prostitution itself that is the problem. Gal, you who told me this, please back me up. IF you have the time.

And about the porn, I seriouslly think we're talking sex slavery in most of these cases (not all though, though we're rarelly talking slavery. As in the previous case, if drugs are involved, then they're the problem, not the pornography).

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311954
17/07/05 02:59 AM
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Wow! What guys are you talking about? All the men I know are perfect gentlemen.

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311955
17/07/05 04:30 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.




Right. They DO exist. But it's the same thing as like clichés : You THINK you know one, you know all. No individuality, please.



Agreed. What I find extreme is to state that ALL men are like that: "men are animals, machines and walking dildos".

Quote:

So, for a better understanding and better "evoliution", we need BOTH genders to take part and breaking the structures that hinder BOTH in being treated equally.



Agreed here too.

Quote:

I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?



I know no one personally, but I know of some who openly assume and talk about it. Several books and interview were made on that too. It's quite a shame to bear this title, but after Los Angeles (or Las Vegas, can't remember), Montreal is one of the capitals of the sex industry...

It is true that the majority of the prostitutes do it against their will. And it is true that they most always don't do it because they like sex. But it is true that some do it on their free will too.
I don't like prostitution, porn, etc. and do not want my man to use that either. But if a man gets sex of a fully willing prostitute, and that he doesn't do wrong to anyone by doing it, although it disgusts me who am I to state it is wrong?
It is not the majority of cases that are like that, but there are. On the rest of the cases, it IS something wrong; but we have to be careful with stereotypes.

Quote:

And how can they be married by force? That sounds illegal to me.



That is illegal in your country, and mine, and most industrialised ones. But there are lots of places where there are arranged and forced marriages, and sometimes it is even overtly accepted. During a trip, some people tried to arrange a marriage for my own cousin; her vs 100 camels for her family. There is a woman who escaped a situation like that (she had been married by force and suffered several sexual, physical and psychological mistreatment. She became a refugee in another country and wrote a book of all that happened to her; I can't remember the title nor her name right now but when I'll do I'll post the references. In the meantime, here is another example.

There is still a lot of work to do, even in industralised countries for women to be less mistreated by men.


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
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