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"Men are animals" #311936
16/07/05 12:52 PM
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AlrikFassbauer Offline OP
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Um, I've read about a story ... someone gave a link to me.

The background ist that of an interview made with "Ireen von Wachenfeldt, chairman of the national women's refuge organisation ROKS".

In that, she actually acknowledged that she saw men as "men are animals, machines and walking dildos".

The actual story can be found here : http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=1505&date=20050527
It's all in English.

Um, is this how far feminism has gone ? Are we males an illness of the women ?

I cannot believe it, what women are able to think.

I get the impression as if the feminism has taken a swing to the other side of the measure. This is no more - as it seems to me - for men and women being treated equally, but seemingly rather "some are more equal than others", to quote George Orwell's satire "Animal Farm".

I'm quite shocked about that.

Alrik.


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #311937
16/07/05 02:24 PM
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I saw that documentary (it's from Sweden, showed on SVT, swedish television), and it's pretty scary, even though it's edited. Ireen von Wachenfeldt has resighned due to the documentary. I don't think she is as extreme as the interview sais it is though, I suspect it's been edited so that most of the things she said isn't said in their original form so to say (you onlöy hear the bad quotes, not the questions). From what I've heard later, the interviewer really put her under loads of preshure. The documentary is still pretty scary though, espessially for the stories around the interview with Irene (one story about a women's refuge organisation called Bellas vänner (Bellas friends) who kidnapped two girls, and took them to Norway because they thought they were hunted by satanists). You allso saw a scary interview from a Women's refuge in Umeå with two women who said some really frightening stuff, in the way of: "U used to think that men I met was ok, but now I think they're just like all other men". Scary, really scary...

Übereil


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311938
16/07/05 03:35 PM
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well, i didn't saw these intervieuws,
but for wat i know there probably all fanatics/ extremists.
extreme left/ extreme right / extreme male /extreme female...i don't know

But feminism ist that bad, if it defends the rights of the woman who are treatend like animals (afganistan anyone?)
But you can go soo far in this...that in the end ,"man is the epicenter of all evil. (mm, sound like a new movie title )



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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: the_bean] #311939
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Well I am proud to be an animal


Party animal to be precise


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311940
16/07/05 03:51 PM
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If i have to be an animal, so i choose to be a Bonobo.

Happy little tots (and both, female and male, are Happy )




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Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311941
16/07/05 03:56 PM
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One can't judge all the men in the same way.
Some men are very great but a lot of men are worse than animals.
It's not good to compare these men to animals because there is no perversion in the animal world.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311942
16/07/05 04:42 PM
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There are extremists everywhere, whatever their "cause" may be; religion, politics, sex-related issues... And medias are not always so trustworthy; they sometimes do a lot of manipulations for sensationalism... It is hard to know the whole truth.
Maybe are there some women really thinking a such thing, but they're certainly not the majority. Feminism is still meant to be; there are still a lot of places and cases where women are treated horribly by men, like living objects, inferior persons.
As for men being an illness to the women... Males and females are complementary. Not one better than the other, and both as essential; it isn't working otherwise. Like a very acid or basic solution are harmful, but when put togther they make a harmless, neuter one. Maybe men in general are they an illness to the women; but seen like that women are an illness to men as well...



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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311943
16/07/05 05:00 PM
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Sorry i am not a feminist but with what i can see as a women living in France, i can say that a lot of men are worse than animals.
It's insulting for the animals to be compared with these men.

The world is not as pink and shiny as some of you want to see it.

What do you think about all the women with have to support physic or moral violence from their husband/boyfriend.
What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".
What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.
Do you think that the sexuel slavery would exit if there would be not any men excited by this kind of thing ?

Alrik, Stone or Morbo would answer : "I am not one of those men".
Of course you are not but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.

And don't say that i am an extremist !

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311944
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You are definitly not an extremist, girl.
It's true that some men do things to hurt the other sex, and I say this from my own experience. Most of the men's brain is not located in their heads, but in their penis.
I don't want to hurt any member here, I like them all very much. But when a woman specificly ask not to watch porn on the internet and her husband does that anyway, isn't that also hurting another as well? Where is the respect and the love?
Men say that it's in their genes to do that, well if you ask me, that is BS!! That certainly doesn't mean that it's ok, right?



Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311945
16/07/05 05:34 PM
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In Antwort auf:

but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.




Right. They DO exist. But it's the same thing as like clichés : You THINK you know one, you know all. No individuality, please.


The worst thing I've heard of is using rape (?) as a "weapon" in war. That's the most cruel thing I can imagine ...


The problem is, that the feminists have achieved *very* much in the last decades - compared to the time before that.

Now, it's the men's turn, imho. That means, that men must start with something like feminism, only towards their own gender (maskulinism ?). That should eventually lead to asking themselves about their role - where there is someone who does the deed (men) , there is a victim, too (women), at least measured against the "Patriarchalic time". So, for a better understanding and better "evoliution", we need BOTH genders to take part and breaking the structures that hinder BOTH in being treated equally.

The problem is, that men are in a state of "maskulinism" at the state where the feminism has been 30-40 years ago ...

That leaves a LOT of work to be done ...



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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311946
16/07/05 05:40 PM
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Svar till:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .

Svar till:

What do you think about all the women with have to support physic or moral violence from their husband/boyfriend.




Braindead idiots. Probablly psycopaths.

Svar till:

What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".




Braindead idiots. At least showing psycopathic tendenses.

Svar till:

What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.




OK, I mkight not do this (espessially not the bying sex), but if the girls have no problem with this (and I'm talking about the girls involed, the ones who is selling, or the ones on the picture. Or the ones at home wondering what their husband/boyfriend is doing (these are rarelly in on it)), then I can't see the problem really.

Svar till:

Do you think that the sexuel slavery would exit if there would be not any men excited by this kind of thing ?




Probablly not, but there wouldn't be many children either.

I think it was Jang who said that the world is rarelly black or white, it's most often grey.

Übereil

Edit: Just thought of the perfect answer to "Men are animals": So are women .

Last edited by Ubereil; 16/07/05 05:42 PM.

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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311947
16/07/05 05:54 PM
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Quote:

Quote:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .



I don't care being an etremist.

Quote:

Quote:

What do you think about all the young girls who are raped by several boys in the cellars of the buildings. In french it is called "Tournantes".




Braindead idiots. At least showing psycopathic tendenses.



No they are not. They just want to show that the girls are their slaves.
Some girls have been killed. Other ones are married by force and they are raped by their "husband".

Quote:

Quote:

What do you think about the men who pay for sex with prostitutes or about those men who look at porn movies or porn pic.




OK, I mkight not do this (espessially not the bying sex), but if the girls have no problem with this (and I'm talking about the girls involed, the ones who is selling, or the ones on the picture. Or the ones at home wondering what their husband/boyfriend is doing (these are rarelly in on it)), then I can't see the problem really.



Most of the girls are slaves from Africa or Eastern European countries.
The other ones use to take drugs and they fell in prostitution for money.
In both case it is not a choice.
Stop thinking that the prostitutes have sex because they like it. A lot of them are lesbians.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311948
16/07/05 05:57 PM
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Maybe we must make a difference betwen sick people and that what we call man.
I can say that i have learnd some sick woman in my life. And this is not really better.

And we all know the internet. And we all know that the sexsites are a really big part of the net.
If i see the whole flood of pornsites you came (if you want or not, sooner or later you will be redirected on such sites), i cant belive that these are all victims.
For the most women there this is a Job.
I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311949
16/07/05 06:09 PM
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Quote:

I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?



I don't know actors of porn movies but i know a lot of men who look at porn movies.
Sometimes it's not good for them because they get complexs about their anatomy.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311950
16/07/05 06:52 PM
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^^ Touché Barta Gods there are moments when I just love you


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: MeaCulpa] #311951
16/07/05 07:10 PM
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Some quote some one told me:

Can't we just agree that regardless of sex we all are idiots?


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311952
16/07/05 08:11 PM
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Sometimes it's not good for them because they get complexs about their anatomy.


Really? Why?





Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311953
16/07/05 09:30 PM
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Svar till:

Svar till:



And don't say that i am an extremist !





Barta, you're an etremist .



I don't care being an etremist.




Doh !

Svar till:


No they are not. They just want to show that the girls are their slaves.
Some girls have been killed. Other ones are married by force and they are raped by their "husband".




OK, remove 'braindead' and insert 'pagan'. And how can they be married by force? That sounds illegal to me.

Svar till:

Most of the girls are slaves from Africa or Eastern European countries.
The other ones use to take drugs and they fell in prostitution for money.
In both case it is not a choice.
Stop thinking that the prostitutes have sex because they like it. A lot of them are lesbians.




If they're in it to get money for drugs, then it's the drugs who is the problem, not the prostitution, or the men for that sake. If they're slaves, thenthey're probablly not in it by their own will, and most likelly have a problem with it.

I don't think they're in it because they like it, but some of them ARE in it in their free will, and if pepole want tobuy sex from them, then I think it's allright. In the other casesw it isn't the prostitution itself that is the problem. Gal, you who told me this, please back me up. IF you have the time.

And about the porn, I seriouslly think we're talking sex slavery in most of these cases (not all though, though we're rarelly talking slavery. As in the previous case, if drugs are involved, then they're the problem, not the pornography).

Übereil


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311954
17/07/05 02:59 AM
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Wow! What guys are you talking about? All the men I know are perfect gentlemen.

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311955
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Quote:

Quote:

but it does not mean that these pigs do not exist.




Right. They DO exist. But it's the same thing as like clichés : You THINK you know one, you know all. No individuality, please.



Agreed. What I find extreme is to state that ALL men are like that: "men are animals, machines and walking dildos".

Quote:

So, for a better understanding and better "evoliution", we need BOTH genders to take part and breaking the structures that hinder BOTH in being treated equally.



Agreed here too.

Quote:

I only wonder that nobody knows actors of pornmovies. I know nobody who makes such movies, do anybody here know people who are involved in this business?



I know no one personally, but I know of some who openly assume and talk about it. Several books and interview were made on that too. It's quite a shame to bear this title, but after Los Angeles (or Las Vegas, can't remember), Montreal is one of the capitals of the sex industry...

It is true that the majority of the prostitutes do it against their will. And it is true that they most always don't do it because they like sex. But it is true that some do it on their free will too.
I don't like prostitution, porn, etc. and do not want my man to use that either. But if a man gets sex of a fully willing prostitute, and that he doesn't do wrong to anyone by doing it, although it disgusts me who am I to state it is wrong?
It is not the majority of cases that are like that, but there are. On the rest of the cases, it IS something wrong; but we have to be careful with stereotypes.

Quote:

And how can they be married by force? That sounds illegal to me.



That is illegal in your country, and mine, and most industrialised ones. But there are lots of places where there are arranged and forced marriages, and sometimes it is even overtly accepted. During a trip, some people tried to arrange a marriage for my own cousin; her vs 100 camels for her family. There is a woman who escaped a situation like that (she had been married by force and suffered several sexual, physical and psychological mistreatment. She became a refugee in another country and wrote a book of all that happened to her; I can't remember the title nor her name right now but when I'll do I'll post the references. In the meantime, here is another example.

There is still a lot of work to do, even in industralised countries for women to be less mistreated by men.


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #311956
17/07/05 05:29 AM
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in response to feminism:


im king of the food chain baby so lets get down to business and spread some of my nobility around


This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Virgo_Bluefire] #311957
17/07/05 09:21 AM
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lol...

as man I can declare I am no dildo but I am an animal, a mamal even. I have ape-like behaviour I like hanging on branches.


It's one of these days...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311958
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Svar till:

I don't like prostitution, porn, etc. and do not want my man to use that either. But if a man gets sex of a fully willing prostitute, and that he doesn't do wrong to anyone by doing it, although it disgusts me who am I to state it is wrong?
It is not the majority of cases that are like that, but there are. On the rest of the cases, it IS something wrong; but we have to be careful with stereotypes.




That's what I've been trying to say all along (maybe aoart from the 'I don't like it' part, even though I don't like it). If I'd tried it well is another thing to discus, though doing soseems unescesary .

And non-industrial countries (or maybe we should just talk about poor countries. Or even better, undeveloped countries) have many problems, not only their view of women.

And Dragh, you pointed out what made my perfect reply perfect .

Übereil


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311959
17/07/05 12:33 PM
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Als antwoord op:

There is a woman who escaped a situation like that (she had been married by force and suffered several sexual, physical and psychological mistreatment. She became a refugee in another country and wrote a book of all that happened to her; I can't remember the title nor her name right now but when I'll do I'll post the references.




@ Lafille
Are you talking about Zana Muhsen and her sister Nadia? I've read both of them. "Promise to Nadia" and "Sold" , Betty Mahmoody or Waris Dirie?
I have dozens of stories about women in that case.

@ Üb
Read your pm inbox

Last edited by galadriel; 17/07/05 12:35 PM.


Re: "Men are animals" [Re: galadriel] #311960
17/07/05 04:01 PM
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prostitution..
it's all about the money. period!
Or the woman gets in the prostitution for "easy" money,
Or they are forced to go into prostitution for someone else his/her money.

prostitution exist even at the beginning of civilisation.
if there weren't prostitutes , there would be much more rapes out there for sure.

Sex is an animal instinkt.
it is the one thing that can change a intelligent human into a reaving beast.
Sexual impulses can "override" your basic thoughts and doings... And when that happens , it's always dangerous for sexual harrasments...

And about the animals, you don't think raping occurs in the animal world?

Hormones, you love 'em or your hate them!




Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: the_bean] #311961
17/07/05 04:25 PM
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Quote:

if there weren't prostitutes , there would be much more rapes out there for sure.



This idea is completely untrue.
There is no link between the man who pays for sex and the man who rapes a woman.

I live in the center of Paris near a very hot place.
I use to see the men who have sex with the prostitutes most of them look like "gentlemen" with nice suits.
These men use to hide themselves behind the prostitute because they are afraid to be seen by somebody they know.
A lot of them are married and have children.

The men who raped women have a different mind what they like is more violence and domination than sex.
Some of them are also married with children.

Quote:

Sex is an animal instinkt.



Animals have sex only for procreation and only during the period of procreation.
They don't force a female who do not want to have sex with them.
They don't have sex with other species.

Quote:

Hormones, you love 'em or your hate them!



One can't live without eating or drinking but it's possible to live without sex.
Hormones and sexual impulses are just good pretexts for men acting like pigs (i am sorry for the real pigs. )

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311962
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I still suspect that the reason for rapeing women is in some cases to get sex easilly. If they can go to a prostitute instead, they do so. This means that more prostitutes=>less rapes. The men that rapes women because they like to dominate their sexuall partners would still rape women though, but these men will allways rape women, no matter what.
One of the injustices in at least the Swedish society (if not the rest of the world) is the way we handle cases of rape. Here the women gets questioned about several (not very related) questions, like: was she drunk (then it's not rape, it's sexuall misuse, shorter penalty, principally right prehaps, but morally?), what was she wearing (if she was wearing sexy clothes, you can't blasme the man for rapeing her), what's her reputation (ok, this is plane weird) and several other not very related questiones. The questions should be: was she raped? If she was: penalty. If she wasn't: no penalty. As simple as that. Note that the tones are completelly different if it is a man that is the victim.

Svar till:

Animals have sex only for procreation and only during the period of procreation.
They don't force a female who do not want to have sex with them.
They don't have sex with other species.




Sex is still an animal instinkt. And humans doesn't work like other animals in this way, because we have sex for fun and not only for procreation. We're build that way, and the only way to change that is to manipulate our genes. And when it comes to forceing sex, then most men don't do this (I think). It's not very common (it's not like every second man beats his wife, one out of five has ever raped a women etc). It happens though, and I think it's not the societys view on sex that is the problem, it's the man himself, and his view on sex. And we've allready come to the conclution that there are idiots everywere.

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311963
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galadriel Offline
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Als antwoord op:

I still suspect that the reason for rapeing women is in some cases to get sex easilly.



I'm very sorry, Übs, but I have to correct you on this one. I've read several books about serial killers, and most of them usually rape their victims. But that was never for getting sex easily, but to be able to completely dominate their victim. Those serial killers only want complete control and want to show their victims that they are in charge. Some of them even raped their victim after they had killed her/him. That is called Necrophilia. I hope I wrote it correct in English?
The same reason why in the WW2 the nazi's ordered their Jewish prisoners to get undressed in front of them, it's a way of showing the victims that they were the boss and your faith was completely in their hands.

Rapists are also men that like a woman that struggles against it. They get turned on by it, by their screams, the fear in their eyes, stuff like that. But it's almost never because of wanting just sex.



Re: "Men are animals" [Re: galadriel] #311964
17/07/05 06:29 PM
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I said some cases .

Svar till:


Rapists are also men that like a woman that struggles against it. They get turned on by it, by their screams, the fear in their eyes, stuff like that. But it's almost never because of wanting just sex.




These pepole are pretty unhelpable too. They will rape women no matter if the risk penalty (of any kind) or not. Same thing goes for the serial killers (but these aren't the ordinary person, these are psycos, and can't be judged as ordinary pepole, they're just to be locked away from ordinary pepole).

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311965
17/07/05 06:38 PM
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Quote:

Same thing goes for the serial killers (but these aren't the ordinary person, these are psycos, and can't be judged as ordinary pepole, they're just to be locked away from ordinary pepole).

Übereil



Before to be caught these person were "ordinary people".
The boy next door for exemple.
When the truth is known his relative use to say :
"I can't believe it, he was so ordinary !"

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311966
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I think it is not possible for a normal man to understand the reason for rape woman.
For me, this is complete not understandable. At last maybe we are animals, but we have more than only mind/brain and hormones. We have emotions, and (by the most people) these emotions are very strong. We dont want to hurt the other, we dont want to rape them.
Only the thinkig to do something like raping/violence to a woman make me sick, becouse i have emotions and i know that the woman has emotions too.
Thats the same reason i dont go to prostitutes, there are no feeling by the woman for me. And i know that i can`t satisfy these woman.
So for what is it good, apart from throwing the money out of a window?

I cant understand these people, but i know that they are really sick (not these who are going to prostitutes, i think they are maybe fell alone for to long, or have other problems at home i dont know). But i dont have pity with them, only with the Victims.



Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311967
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It's simple it turns those ppl on, they like power over women. It's a sick and evil fetisj.


It's one of these days...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #311968
17/07/05 08:45 PM
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Quote:

I think it is not possible for a normal man to understand the reason for rape woman.
For me, this is complete not understandable. At last maybe we are animals, but we have more than only mind/brain and hormones. We have emotions, and (by the most people) these emotions are very strong. We dont want to hurt the other, we dont want to rape them.



@ Stone

I wish every men on earth could be like you.
Of course there are a lot of men in whom women can trust, but not enough.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311969
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I'm just waiting for the day when it turns women on to get power over men ...



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Morbo] #311970
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Quote:

Well I am proud to be an animal


Party animal to be precise




Count me in too..... Good one Morbo!


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Jurak] #311971
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I wish every men on earth could be like you.

Thank you Barta.

But this can change the World to a boring Place


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311972
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yes, boring.... but safe.



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311973
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@Gal
Yes! I was talking about Zana Mushen's story. Read both hers & her sister's story, but I was a while ago...

Quote:

Animals have sex only for procreation and only during the period of procreation.



There are exceptions; dolphins have sex for pleasure and bonobos have sex to release the tensions, for example. ( @Stone)
But it's true that they don't force females who don't want to have sex. They don't beat them nor fight with them either, even in response to a female's very nasty blow.


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #311974
18/07/05 03:53 PM
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Quote:

yes, boring.... but safe.





reminds me of that movie I-ROBOT
where the robots , put the people in "prisons" so to speak, stripp them theire rights
just to save humankind from hurting themselves......


Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311975
18/07/05 03:54 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Animals have sex only for procreation and only during the period of procreation.



There are exceptions; dolphins have sex for pleasure and bonobos have sex to release the tensions, for example.



Yep there are always exceptions.

I am going to write to this Ireen for telling her that she has deadly insulted the animals saying : "Men are animals".

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311976
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Manamels...invertabroads....can't we all just get along!!

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Plowking] #311977
18/07/05 04:33 PM
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well...
since im male i guess i should just kill myself and commit sucide
since the majority are rapist, all of us males must be bad people and rapist too
all the new childeren that are innocent and happy are bad people and ratpist too
hell kill them too

cause their male and the majority can die

I got this out of the conversation, if this is not what is intended please clarify cause im all ears. Further more it frightens me as to why you think that & if an all female hate group condemns the majority of males based on faulty logic. Then i condemn society. I believe that society will not last long with thoughts like those, and thus to hell with society cause if i should lose faith in you, then i should lose faith in society.

Virgo~The righteous & sensitive


This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Virgo_Bluefire] #311978
18/07/05 05:06 PM
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But it's true that they don't force females who don't want to have sex.
Thats not true, everybody who have a more than one Cat, or have many Cats in the neighborhood knows that. And in the Nature it is normal that the new pascha kill all young animals who are not from him.


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311979
18/07/05 05:29 PM
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Quote:

Thats not true, everybody who have a more than one Cat, or have many Cats in the neighborhood knows that.



Really?

Quote:

And in the Nature it is normal that the new pascha kill all young animals who are not from him.



I don't know what a pascha is, but it is true that it is something common for some species. I was mainly thinking about sexually mature females in what I said.

I can always be wrong; my appologies if it is the case.


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #311980
18/07/05 05:48 PM
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Barta Offline
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Quote:

I don't know what a pascha is



I guess Pascha is an arabian title something like Sultan.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #311981
18/07/05 05:51 PM
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While there are many men who are indeed ratbags of the worst kind, the vast majority of us are not.

There have always been extremist Feminists with an anti-male agenda, and this is nothing new, nor anything to really get upset about, IMO. Feminism has done a lot of good things for women, but the agenda has not always been about equality, and that has been obvious for a long time, I think.

Just as misogynism is nothing new in men, so hatred of men is nothing new in women. Similarly, abuse is not just a one way street.

I like to hope that we as a species will someday outgrow the horrible things we do to each other.

***

In nature, there are many forms of sexual abuse, from packs of male dolphins who hold females prisoner when they are in heat (A recent discovery, and a quite appalling one, IMO) to female spiders who decapitate their partner during intercourse and eat him afterwards (Something thankfully not practiced by even the most fanatical feminists ). Nature is often not very nice to her children of either sex.


Please click the banner...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Elliot_Kane] #311982
18/07/05 06:00 PM
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I refuse to be drawn into this debate (except for this little post) as I respect Barta far too much as a person.


Mea Culpa's Demesne Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP Old Elven Saying: "Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!" "I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: MeaCulpa] #311983
18/07/05 07:08 PM
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Quote:

I refuse to be drawn into this debate (except for this little post) as I respect Barta far too much as a person.



@ MeaCulpa

What do you mean ?

@ All

Alrik opened this topic about "Men are animals".
Was he expecting that everybody would say the feminists are extremists and men are perfect angels ?
I gave my opinion clearly : i don't agree with the feminists because a lot of men are nice people but too much men act like pigs.

This topic is a discussion, if each member can't give his/her opinion, no need to open a topic.
Or the first person answers and the other ones say "i agree".

I guess that all of the men of this forum are perfect gentlemen.
If some of them have been shocked by what i said, i am not sorry, because it is the truth.

It was my last words on this subject.

The end
La Fin

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: MeaCulpa] #311984
18/07/05 07:10 PM
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Mother cats whit youngs will kill any kittin that's not hers, that's why you should not touch the youngs of a cat that doesn't know you. If she smells a strange sent stronger than hers she'll kill it. Not all cats do this but it's a risk.

Fact some animals do "rape" but still it's different, males will choose a female and try to do it, the female will resist, because she wants to test if the male is good material. but far from the rape we know.


It's one of these days...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #311985
18/07/05 07:16 PM
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I can't read the whole thread people but I need to say this :

There are horrible men but equally there are horrible women in this world. So I just love the GOOD people of both kinds. And I hope that someday humans will become wiser and stop hurting each other.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #311986
18/07/05 07:19 PM
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Svar till:

If some of them have been shocked by what i said, i am not sorry, because it is the truth.




At least it's the truth as you see it .

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311987
18/07/05 07:39 PM
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AlrikFassbauer Offline OP
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I once read about a novel, which I found very disturbing : Men used by women as kind of slaves, only for reproduction (by the way, what's "procrastinastion" ?), used like milk-cows only for their genetic material ... since there are several million sperms in the part of one man, you only need very few of them ...

My idea later was that of a feminist genetic engineer who tried to make women into selvf-reproducing beings ... men no longer needed ...



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311988
18/07/05 07:42 PM
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In Antwort auf:

@ All

Alrik opened this topic about "Men are animals".
Was he expecting that everybody would say the feminists are extremists and men are perfect angels ?
I gave my opinion clearly : i don't agree with the feminists because a lot of men are nice people but too much men act like pigs.

This topic is a discussion, if each member can't give his/her opinion, no need to open a topic.
Or the first person answers and the other ones say "i agree".

I guess that all of the men of this forum are perfect gentlemen.
If some of them have been shocked by what i said, i am not sorry, because it is the truth.

It was my last words on this subject.

The end
La Fin

Barta





I do complete agree with you, Barta, here, sad that you stop the discuss now where it is going interesting.
But i can understand this, some reactions have not really the distance a discussion like this need. But at last these reactions are a part of the community we move in. And so i see no reason to stop now for me.

But, i must say this, yes. Yes, this Topic is a try to say men are allways perfekt Angels. That is what i told my Love every Day
I`m a good Stone, a lovely Stone, an Angel.
.
.
.
But she dosn`t belive that i wonder why


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #311989
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In Antwort auf:

In Antwort auf:

I refuse to be drawn into this debate (except for this little post) as I respect Barta far too much as a person.



@ MeaCulpa

What do you mean ?

@ All

Alrik opened this topic about "Men are animals".
Was he expecting that everybody would say the feminists are extremists and men are perfect angels ?
I gave my opinion clearly : i don't agree with the feminists because a lot of men are nice people but too much men act like pigs.

This topic is a discussion, if each member can't give his/her opinion, no need to open a topic.
Or the first person answers and the other ones say "i agree".

I guess that all of the men of this forum are perfect gentlemen.
If some of them have been shocked by what i said, i am not sorry, because it is the truth.

It was my last words on this subject.

The end
La Fin

Barta






The problem is balance.

Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, polygamy exists in the animal kingdom in both directions : males with many females and females with many males ... if I remember correctly, the ostrich is an example of the latter.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #311990
18/07/05 09:58 PM
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Barta...

I don't entirely agree with you, as I think is obvious, but I think this discussion will be much poorer without you. Please don't feel put off from contributing

***

Lucretia...

I couldn't agree more

***

Alrik...

'Procrastination' is to keep on delaying doing something you know you SHOULD do.


Please click the banner...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #311991
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One of the best books I've ever read is a book called "The Shore of Women" by Pamela Sargent. It's set in the future after a big war, caused by men. After that war, women threw men out of society (because it was too dangerous to have them in it), and forced them to live like pagans, while they lived in a high-tec world. They fooled the men to worship them as goddeses, and took them into their enclaves where they took their sperm for reproduction. The story is about a woman (acually they're two, mother and daughter, not sure of the wholse story now, anyway they're both thrown out) who has murdered another woman, and is thrown out of society as penalty (it's not really a deathpenalty, they're just not supposed to die in the wilderness). The mother dies, but the daughter manages to get herself into a tribe (who think that she's a goddes) who supports for her. At least one of them, a young man, who has fallen in love with her, and tries to "win" her (he really cares for her though, think nothing else). She's horrified, she's grown up in a society where hetrosexual love is looked upon as sick (men in general is looked uppon as sick, so...).

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #311992
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speaking about cats, yes, that much is true when the male cat feels that the litter of kittens sin't his then he will kill them off. sad but true.

@ EK -> maybe Barta has said her piece so she has nothing else to say?



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #311993
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Quote:

speaking about cats, yes, that much is true when the male cat feels that the litter of kittens sin't his then he will kill them off. sad but true.

@ EK -> maybe Barta has said her piece so she has nothing else to say?




Entirely possible, Janggut

I'd hate for her or anyone else to feel their contributions were unwelcome, though, and the impression I got from reading her last post - wrongly or otherwise - was very much that she felt her views were not being respected.

I'm sure she will correct me if I am wrong


Please click the banner...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Elliot_Kane] #311994
19/07/05 12:35 PM
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This thread is kinda insulting...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: NeroJB] #311995
19/07/05 12:59 PM
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please don't feel that way, nero. as far as my manhood is concerned, i feel no insults nor threats. this thread is to enlighten what has happened & what are we to think of the issues. sweeping it under the rug won't help any of us.

unless i misconstrued your meaning.



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #311996
19/07/05 04:21 PM
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I am staying out of this thread but my sig should explain...its something I am writing a paper on atm

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: NeroJB] #311997
19/07/05 06:11 PM
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My English are improving.
I understood Nero's sig. And I like it very much.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LUCRETIA] #311998
19/07/05 06:39 PM
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Quote:


My English are improving.
I understood Nero's sig. And I like it very much.




Luc, you were always better than you gave yourself credit for


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Elliot_Kane] #311999
19/07/05 07:25 PM
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Have to agree with his sig too. Every person and situation is unique, so generalizeing isn't the smartest thing to do.

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312000
19/07/05 08:36 PM
19/07/05 08:36 PM
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@ EK

Quote:

I don't entirely agree with you, as I think is obvious, but I think this discussion will be much poorer without you. Please don't feel put off from contributing



You are very nice but i prefer to stop talking in this topic for several reasons.
I felt that some people misunderstood what i said.
Someone said :

Quote:

This thread is kinda insulting...



I guess the next post would be : "Please close this thread".
It reminds me the Pope thread.
This kind of topic is embarassing.

Anyway we could discuss again about another subject less......embarassing.
You are an ancient member of the forum and i don't really know you.
For exemple we could talk about London which is a town i love very much.


@ Janggut

Quote:

maybe Barta has said her piece so she has nothing else to say?



No i would have had to say a lot more about this subject.


@ Stone

Quote:

That is what i told my Love every Day
I`m a good Stone, a lovely Stone, an Angel.
.
.
.
But she dosn`t belive that i wonder why



You're joking. She believes that !
I wish you a lot of happyness.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #312001
19/07/05 09:29 PM
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Barta...

I will of course respect your wishes.

I am a... Well, I suppose an occasional member of the forum, in that I drop in every once in a while before mysteriously vanishing again But this type of topic always sparks my interest.

I'll not likely be hugely active here again until DD2 comes out.

London... The most cosmopolitan city on Earth. Yeah, I understand loving it. I do myself


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: NeroJB] #312002
20/07/05 01:29 AM
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Quote:

I am staying out of this thread but my sig should explain...its something I am writing a paper on atm




very interesting, nero. i hope u will share the article with us once u're done with it.

@ barta -> please don't feel embarrased by threads like this one. it serves to provoke thinking. for my case, it made me think; am i like the men those ultra feminists say i am? maybe i am not but is it possible for me to be one? just how easy is it to be one? can i fight it? can i be better? in what ways can i improve on my behavoiur towards women? etc etc etc

so threads like this is never a waste. it makes me think. & when it does, it has already serve its purpose. whether it makes me a supporter of feminism is another matter entirely.



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #312003
20/07/05 01:49 AM
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Janggut...

It is possible for all human beings, male and female, to be horrible, brutal and disgusting excuses for people. But we don't have to be We have the choice


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Elliot_Kane] #312004
20/07/05 02:05 AM
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exactly, EK, but it is crucial (at least for me) that we acknowledge our fallibility & potential to succumb to such, which will bring us to conscious choice.



......a gift from LaFille......
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #312005
20/07/05 02:56 AM
20/07/05 02:56 AM
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Quote:

@ barta -> please don't feel embarrased by threads like this one. it serves to provoke thinking.



@ Janggut

I don't feel embarassed.
I said the subject is embarrassing, it's different.
As you said it's provoque thinking and asking questions about ourselves and about what we see around us without any reaction.
I mean about violence.

But some people have been hurted.
Virgo Bluefire said : "I am going to commit suicide" !
And a good friend of mine told me in a PM : "you say you are not extreme, but from my point of view it comes over as very extreme".

Anyway it was a good discussion and i just regret that people like Kiya, Master Guroth, Cleglaw and Womble were not there to give their opinion.

@ Elliot Kane

It was a pleasure to talk with you.
Even if you are an occasional member of the forum, we will meet again sooner or later.
I am going in vacation and i will be away for several weeks.
But i always come back.

@ Luc

Don't be mad at me because i did not answer to your last mail, i will try to send you a letter.

Barta

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Barta] #312006
20/07/05 04:09 AM
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Janggut - I agree The potential is in all of us to be really GOOD people, too, and the best people - of both sexes - try hard to be But yes - it IS a choice

Barta - you're not an extremist. I've talked with extremists, and they are nothing like you. Your friend is wrong. I am sure we will talk again at some time, and I hope you enjoy your holiday


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Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Elliot_Kane] #312007
20/07/05 10:17 AM
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Personally, I'm quite embaressed how ... this discussion had become . I sense a bit aggressiveness in it, which I don't like.

I guess we should leave it to the point of Elliot Kane : Everyone can be cruel sometimes, but we have a choice (unless we are psychical ill).


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #312008
20/07/05 11:41 AM
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Svar till:

Anyway it was a good discussion and i just regret that people like Kiya, Master Guroth, Cleglaw and Womble were not there to give their opinion.




Agreed. But then again, it's a pity they're not here to share their oppinions and views in general.

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312009
20/07/05 11:51 AM
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No problem Barta. You have been so nice to me!
I wish you to have the best vacation!
Hugs
Luc


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LUCRETIA] #312010
20/07/05 07:14 PM
20/07/05 07:14 PM
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In Antwort auf:







Aaahhh, now the good part of the thread is beginning.


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: janggut] #312011
21/07/05 03:26 AM
21/07/05 03:26 AM
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Quote:

exactly, EK, but it is crucial (at least for me) that we acknowledge our fallibility & potential to succumb to such, which will bring us to conscious choice.




That is so true. It reminds me of these two beautiful quotes (roughly translated by your devoted):
I am human and nothing human is alien to me (Terence)
There are not crime of wich I can't imagine myself being the perpetrator (Goethe)

And after the choice, comes the work...

@Alrik
Please, don't feel embarrassed. Confrontations are part of life; if the differents & misunderstandings are handled and solved a lot of good can come out from it. It is just important that people don't stay with any grief, keep good will and remain open minded. This subject is always a delicate and slippery one.

@Barta
Bonnes vacances; amuses-toi autant que possible, gâtes-toi et reviens-nous en forme!


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #312012
21/07/05 12:09 PM
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Svar till:

@Barta
Bonnes vacances; amuses-toi autant que possible, gâtes-toi et reviens-nous en forme!




This is the English part of the forum!

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312013
21/07/05 01:05 PM
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translation for so far my french goes:

Good vacation, Have the best time possible, eeeuh something about resting I guess and coming back in a good shape.


It's one of these days...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #312014
21/07/05 04:22 PM
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@ Hey Ube do not get mad. LaFille wanted to write a wish and sometimes wishes are personal. It is not so bad.

@ Stone
I only got off topic because Barta left and I wanted to say thanks. I did not use her pm because usually it is closed when she is away. My apologies.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #312015
21/07/05 04:23 PM
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For so far your french goes, it goes good Dragh.
It's all right except that "gâtes-toi" = indulge yourself.


LaFille, Toujours un peu sauvage.
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LaFille] #312016
21/07/05 05:17 PM
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@ Hey Ube do not get mad. LaFille wanted to write a wish and sometimes wishes are personal. It is not so bad.




But... It's called the English part of the forum for a reason !
And by the way, I'm only kidding;)
Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312017
21/07/05 05:25 PM
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But Ube it was English .... just written in French


Mea Culpa's Demesne Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP Old Elven Saying: "Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!" "I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312018
21/07/05 06:03 PM
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I simply don't get it. How can someone become so mad just because of so few words in French ?



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #312019
21/07/05 09:08 PM
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And thats after all the disregard of the rules in the One Word topics.



Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Stone] #312020
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MUAHAHAHA I'm so evil...

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312021
21/07/05 10:51 PM
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Somewhere between Here, ..and ...
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that's why men are animals.......


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
Third Member of Off-Topic Posters
Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF.
[/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Jurak] #312022
21/07/05 11:11 PM
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Women too...

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312023
22/07/05 09:07 AM
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Always trying to have the Last Word, hm ?


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #312024
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No .

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312025
22/07/05 11:20 AM
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@ Ube you are spaming.

Now I am angry too. Like it?


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LUCRETIA] #312026
22/07/05 12:39 PM
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No, you're too impulsive. You were never mad when I spammed before . And (at least I think this) my posts may be short, but they're not really spamming, since they contibue to the topic (ok, the OFF topic).

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312027
22/07/05 01:03 PM
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But you was never mad before when LaFille wrote something in French.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #312028
22/07/05 02:55 PM
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Erm, I think this discussion is getting out of hand, so we better end it now...

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312029
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why do you always type your name ube? I don't get it why, you could use the signature to sign a post, and your name is to the left of everything you post. anyway extremely offtipic just wondering.


It's one of these days...
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Draghermosran] #312030
22/07/05 03:08 PM
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I did it in the past as well, but nowadays I use it as a "sign of exccellence" : I only write my name down when I've got something to say that's important to me, like my opinion, for example.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay�.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #312031
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I don't really know. I guess it's my thing. And I feel more comfirtable when I sign my posts, it makes it feel more like I'm writeing a letter than posting in a forum.

Übereil


Brain: an apparatus with which we think we think.

Ambrose Bierce
Re: "Men are animals" [Re: Ubereil] #312032
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Quote:

No, you're too impulsive. You were never mad when I spammed before . And (at least I think this) my posts may be short, but they're not really spamming, since they contibue to the topic (ok, the OFF topic).

Übereil




Wrong (add sound of a buzzer here).
I was very mad sometimes with you and your spaming but I keep in mind that you are a young member and when you get over the enthusiasm of the post count, things will get better. And please let us not continue this conversation because we f*#& up Al's thread.
Thank you.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

Re: "Men are animals" [Re: LUCRETIA] #312033
22/07/05 10:02 PM
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Somewhere between Here, ..and ...
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Just yet another prime example, of the animalistic nature of the beast "they" call MAN!

**Is that what they call a run-on sentence?**

AND.......Who are "they" anyway?



I'm going out to be an animal now.......toodles!


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
Third Member of Off-Topic Posters
Defender of the [color:"green"]PIF.
[/color] Das Grosse Grüne Ogre!!! [/color]
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