Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
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Joined: Sep 2006
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lotjie Offline OP
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Let me be up front - I absolutely loved Divine Divinity, and have been a little bit disappointed by Beyond Divinity. I thought many of the changes were for the worse.

1. Transferring equipment from me to DK, or vice versa - this is a frequent chore to avoid becoming encumbered. Which is fine. What is NOT fine is that transferred equipment becomes equipped. I find it intensely annoying to have to go to DK's (or my) inventory and re-equip weapons and armour every time.

2. Loot gets 'lost' in walls: it's not a lot of fun when you've just managed to triumph in a major skirmish and then find that 25% of the loot can't be picked up because it has fallen into a wall.

3. Experience points - in DD, as one reached higher and higher levels, one got fewer points for killing lower level enemies, but still did get SOMETHING at least. In BD I am in Act 3 and am level 25. The creatures in the battlefields of this act are level 17. I am killing hundreds of foes and getting zero experience - which rather negates the idea of the Battlefields, right? Of course I'll still get xp for doing the quests, but the battlefields are SO tedious, I'm really ticked off not to be getting xp for killing all these level 17 monsters.

4. The skills system - imo, far, far too many different skills, considering that one only gets 1 skillpoint per level on the whole. There's just no opportunity to experiment with the various skills. I do like the intricate skills system, though: but what about giving 5 skill points when one levels up? That would add a LOT of fun to the game.

5. The beginning of the game - quite honestly, encountering those deathknight patrols so early on is a rotten idea, even with precious skillpoints wasted on SNEAK I couldn't sneak past them. I had to hack the starting stats and restart the game.

6. Crystal bag - the idea is a wonderful addition to the game, but I hate that there is only one bag. It would be far more fun if there were two, one could experiment more.

7. Charms - given that charms seem to be far more readily available in BD than they were in DD, and given that charms are such a great feature of both games, it's a pity that so few really good items and weapons in BD are charmable - it seems to me that most of the items with charm slots are low-level stuff.

8. The manual - the manual is truly pathetic. Where is the description of the effects of all the various spells? Where is the information about what sort of damage is inflicted by Power Arrows and Explosive Arrows? Where is there a comprehensive list of all the skills and a description in detail of what each one does? Larian, you did a great job of creating a complex RPG, but a lousy job of documenting its features for your users.

9. Gameplay - I've found that unless one follows the line of the Strategy Guide, some quests don't work. For instance, I explored a lot of the Black Temple Island, down and into the Rebel Camp, before I went into the Temple itself. When I did go into the Temple, quests there were not written into my Quest Log, and quest items were missing eg the book for Crazy Barnabus. Luckily I save often, so I could go back to the beginning of the Black Temple section and do things in the order the Guide laid out. But this is really not acceptable gameplay, is it?

You may not believe it after reading all these peeves, but I am a deep-dyed Larian fan, and longing for the next RPG.

Lotjie

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Welcome to the forum Lotjie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Some keen observations there, some bothered me too, others didn't. I hope that at the end of the day you still enjoyed the game, I dare say you have.

I can't agree with you about the manual though, the descriptions are rather brief, but they're present. 'Pathetic' is just to strong a word. These days a manual is often nothing more than two pages of hotkey references, but in this case it is still a very informative, beautifully presented booklet fifty-five pages thick. You can tell a lot of work went into it.

Nevertheless, it's good that you list your criticisms, the developers read these posts, so perhaps some of the things you disliked will be changed or deleted. Now just make a similar list of the things you really liked and everybody is happy <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
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1. The right click 'give to' command will equip the item, but you do not have to transfer stuff that way. You can open multiple inventory windows at the same time and drag and drop between then, or simply drag and drop to the character's portrait in the top right corner.

Also, with the latest patch installed you can dump an unlimited amount of stuff in a summoning doll, and just keep quest items, good equipment you may use, etc on the main characters. The weight penalty was changed so that characters can carry more than their capacity, but then can not move (which is fine for summoning dolls - you can un-summon and re-summon them if you want to move them).
The first summoning doll is available on the second level of the game (after you jump down the pit in the arena).


2. Loot dropping into walls is mainly a problem in act 1, since there are lots of narrow corridors, etc. Acts 2 and 3 are much more open, so this shouldn't be much of a problem.


3. If you are 8 or more levels above an opponent you do not get experience. See Act 2 - not getting exp in BF.
The battlefields are optional. I only used them for the merchants.


4. You get 1 skill point per level, with an extra skill point every fifth level. Playing on Hardcore there is a 30% random chance of a character getting a bonus skill point each level (so a 9% chance both will).
The variety of skills available does mean you can not learn everything, but skills you invest in can be unlearned (at a cost of gold related to your character level), and you can save and try out skills to see if they are worth keeping.
If you don't mind cheating, or think of it as a fix, you can give yourself more skill points; Hex editing - gold, experience, stat/skill points


5. I liked the DK patrols; it took a little strategy to defeat them. It was at that point I switched my hero to a full time archer (set to aggressive, to automatically attack if not selected as the leader). Before that I was conserving arrows (not necessary with the patch installed).
When sneaking you should still be able to outrun the DK patrols, and get to a storage room, etc. Hit and run tactics work well (especially if you sneak in, use a ranged attack and withdraw before they can see you). You can have one character run around using hit and run tactics, or simply as a diversion, while the other does most or all of the damage from a distance (bow or magic, though with a bow they can be set to aggressive to attack continuously).
The act 1 summoning doll can equip a crossbow. It may not last very long if attacked, but if you keep it out of harm's way it can provide good support. Most of the time I didn't bother with it, but it came in handy for a few tough fights.


6. It is possible to duplicate the crystal bag (Inventory files), but in practice you will probably have one character taking the brunt of attacks (especially with one warrior paired with a mage or archer), so only having one isn't a big deal. Later in the game the resistance boost isn't that essential (with stats and equipment bonuses helping resistances as well), though it does help.


8. You can get a description of skills from within the game itself, though a printed version would be handy. However, any detailed descriptions in a manual would have been partly obsolete as the patch adjusted several skills.
There is a skill list in the Beyond Divinity Strategy Guide.


9. Have you installed the patch? There were some problems with the act 3 quest log in the unpatched game, but AFAIK that should be fixed.

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lotjie Offline OP
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Thanks so much for the welcome, the comments and the tips. MacBeth and Ancient Dragon. It took me a long time to get up the courage to post my thoughts, though of course I've consulted the Board extensively eg the first time I finished a dungeon in the Level 2 Battlefields without finding a Quest Monster on the third dungeon level! I ran around that little level for ages searching for secret doors &c, before I thought to consult the Board. Silly me!

I did install what I think is the latest patch before I started the game - I'm playing v1.47. But as I experienced Quest Log problems, maybe there's something later? I can't find it, if so, and would be grateful for help.

I AM enjoying BD very much now. It did take me a long time to adjust to it as I was expecting something more like my beloved DD. But I'm now in Act III and am fully immersed, and even thinking of replaying the game without hacked stats to see if I can do it now that I'm more familiar with the gameplay.

Re the Act I deathknight patrols - I take your point, AD, and no doubt 99% of BD players would agree. My trouble with scenarios like that is that even on Very Easy I can't move my hamfisted 60 year old fingers/hands fast enough to cope. However, I know Larian didn't design the game to be played by Crumblies like me. The point I wanted to make was that it was a bit too early in the game for such a difficult problem area - one is still getting used to how things work, and it's really discouraging to get knocked out so early on. One isn't immersed in the world or the story yet, so I feel it's likely some folk my age or folk who don't have the manual reflexes of a concert pianist just might give up the game totally at that point. Which would be a pity.

MacBeth asks what I like about BD. I like having a 'party' even if it is only 2 (or 3). I like the concept of the crystals. I LOVE the story and all the different locations. I love flooge frogs and lava crawlers, and all the creativity that has enriched the game - take the way the Stone Eaters' little legs twitch as they die! I like having to cart around different weapons to switch to depending on my foes. I'm thrilled that the humour displayed in DD has been carried over to BD. I like learning the Ranaar alphabet, and seeing how many of the documents I can figure out even without Book III. I like being able to be strategic in combat as opposed to mere hack and slash. I like the extra touch of reality in having to have food with me before I can rest.

There's a lot more I could say but I want to go play the game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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You do have the latest patch. I don't think exploring outside the temple complex in act 3 first should effect the quests inside the temple. People have run into problems that way occasionally if they found a quest item before getting the relavent quest, where the NPC would not recognize that they had it, but dropping the item and picking it up again in that case should get it seen and accepted by the NPC.

For tough battles, keep a finger/hand on the spacebar, and pause frequently to direct attacks or use potions, etc. The DK patrols were originally intended to be much tougher, so you would be forced to sneak past them, as the DK's warning when you enter that area implies.

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MacBeth asks what I like about BD. I like having a 'party' even if it is only 2 (or 3). I like the concept of the crystals. I LOVE the story and all the different locations. I love flooge frogs and lava crawlers, and all the creativity that has enriched the game - take the way the Stone Eaters' little legs twitch as they die! I like having to cart around different weapons to switch to depending on my foes. I'm thrilled that the humour displayed in DD has been carried over to BD. I like learning the Ranaar alphabet, and seeing how many of the documents I can figure out even without Book III. I like being able to be strategic in combat as opposed to mere hack and slash. I like the extra touch of reality in having to have food with me before I can rest.

There's a lot more I could say but I want to go play the game. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Great list, thanks for taking the time to make it. Again: some keen observations there, you are obviously enjoying and exploring the game thoroughly.
Keep having fun with it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.

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