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Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Dexyd] #464981
27/04/13 11:01 PM
27/04/13 11:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 16
Seattle, Washington State USA
Jaesun Offline

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Jaesun  Offline

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Seattle, Washington State USA
Originally Posted By: Dexyd
I couldn't care less when it will be released.


Agreed.

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Jaesun] #464985
28/04/13 12:09 AM
28/04/13 12:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 363
henryv Offline

enthusiast
henryv  Offline

enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 363
I'll really help out larian when alpha release comes out. Bug hunters!
I have exams to worry about but I got to prioritize!


"There is no such thing as absolute freedom because we are still prisoners of society"
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: henryv] #465001
28/04/13 03:18 AM
28/04/13 03:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6
Jhonrock Offline
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Jhonrock  Offline
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I just want them to release the game only AFTER a serious and intense period of game testing. Considering how much extra content was provided by the kickstarter campaign funds, they will need to have extra care with the game to not let it be released with tons of bugs.

Divinity II was a very good game but it suffered a lot with tons of bugs at launch. Now that they don't have a publisher breathing in their necks, they can take their time to polish the game as much as they can, and i think they will need to do it because this game will have a lot of interaction and reactivity, tons of quests, many skills and so on.

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Jhonrock] #465006
28/04/13 04:05 AM
28/04/13 04:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 60
PenguinTD Offline
journeyman
PenguinTD  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 60
I just hope the backer with alpha/beta access like myself can really help them out. Instead of just bitching. Yes, you paid for the access, and it is really important to sit down and go through a lot of things together with Larian and get rid of bugs as fast as we can.

To say "when it's done" is quite irresponsible at management level, you have to dealt with the most important resource, time and money. Both are consuming at constant rate, 1mil won't last forever for making it perfect. It's not a excuse to release something plagued with bugs because you want to put in more feature, yet it's Swen and D:OS's producer's responsibility to backers and their employees to get thing out in a time frame with efficient workflow to get things done. Imagine if Swen always wants to release bug free games, Larian will not survive. Employees needs to pay bills, they have family to support, despite all the passions they have toward making best games, they can not defy reality.

I give them full trust, give them the best pledge I could, and will help them during alpha/beta even though I paid to get this game. I want it to be good, and be part of this journey, hope you guys feel the same. smile

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: PenguinTD] #465015
28/04/13 06:36 AM
28/04/13 06:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 142
Niedersachsen, Germany
tarasis Offline

member
tarasis  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 142
Niedersachsen, Germany
You make a good point PenguinTD, they shouldn't keep delaying till its perfect because complex software never will be bug free. (though that's not an excuse to release overly buggy software and fix it post release, as some publishers seem to do)

Given the state of the pre-alpha, given the comments during gameplay about we should do this, that should really do that and all the additional content they need to add, I find it hard to believe they would hit October/November. So unless they have a box production deal that has to hit a certain date (as its already penciled in), then id rather they took a couple of extra months for polish and bug fixing, release in Feb and avoid insane crunch periods that companies seem to do (I don't know if that is typical for Larian)

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: tarasis] #465020
28/04/13 07:22 AM
28/04/13 07:22 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 891
LightningLockey Offline

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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 891
I can easily see this game being delayed as they add stuff. I was just reading the development diary book that came with the Anthology and seeing how much they've cut from their other games makes me ask, "Oh dear, what have we done? This will be a very large game." We all just gave them a million extra $$ to work with.

It is going to be up to us backers to help defend Larian if they delay the final release.

Last edited by LightningLockey; 28/04/13 07:26 AM.

Every time there I run into trouble on the road, there is always a dwarf at the bottom of it. Don't they know how to drive above ground?
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: LightningLockey] #465056
28/04/13 12:18 PM
28/04/13 12:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6
Jhonrock Offline
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Jhonrock  Offline
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Shigeru Miyamoto once said: "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad".

If Larian need a few more months to polish their game, i'll totaly back it. I can wait without any complain.

It will be very important for their image, as a indie developer, to show a good game without heavy flaws, it will inspire the community even more to back them in any future project.

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Jhonrock] #465058
28/04/13 12:37 PM
28/04/13 12:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Serbia
Sawovsky Offline
journeyman
Sawovsky  Offline
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Posts: 53
Serbia
Larian is indepented developer, but they are not ''indie'' wink

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Sawovsky] #465074
28/04/13 03:21 PM
28/04/13 03:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 6
Jhonrock Offline
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Jhonrock  Offline
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Posts: 6
Originally Posted By: Sawovsky
Larian is indepented developer, but they are not ''indie'' wink

Isn't "indie" an abbreviation of "independent"?

Well, wikipedia says so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie
Quote:
Indie is a shortform of "independence" or "independent"

Last edited by Jhonrock; 28/04/13 03:23 PM.
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Jhonrock] #465075
28/04/13 03:31 PM
28/04/13 03:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 363
henryv Offline

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henryv  Offline

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Posts: 363
Polish it then release it. Release it when bugs are inconsequential.


"There is no such thing as absolute freedom because we are still prisoners of society"
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Jhonrock] #465082
28/04/13 04:37 PM
28/04/13 04:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Serbia
Sawovsky Offline
journeyman
Sawovsky  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 53
Serbia
Originally Posted By: Jhonrock
Originally Posted By: Sawovsky
Larian is indepented developer, but they are not ''indie'' wink

Isn't "indie" an abbreviation of "independent"?

Well, wikipedia says so:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie
Quote:
Indie is a shortform of "independence" or "independent"


Yes literally, of course. But colloquilly, indie is used for small, unassered teams, unlike Larian at all.

Do you consider well-known, medium sized, experienced developers, like Obsidian for example, are indie just because they went to crowdfunding?

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Sawovsky] #465087
28/04/13 04:46 PM
28/04/13 04:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 16
Kiya-Elle Offline OP
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Kiya-Elle  Offline OP
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Posts: 16
@Jhonrock & Sawovsky - no offense, but if you want to have a discussion on the real meaning of indie, please create another thread in the appropriate forum -> http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=12&page=1

Don't derail this one, thanks.


Kickstarter memories - The Wierd
*Amanda Restless Weresheep of Sin* laugh
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Kiya-Elle] #465099
28/04/13 06:09 PM
28/04/13 06:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 60
PenguinTD Offline
journeyman
PenguinTD  Offline
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Posts: 60
1 mil won't last forever, Nintendo has huge pocket for Miyamoto to polish their game. If Larian is anywhere close to say, half as big when Blizzard released D2, then yeah, take your time and polish D:OS the way Swen would like it to be. I don't know how well they paid in Larian, but say for average artist would have like 40k/year, that's around 3.3k/person/month. If Larian is sized around 40 people, that's 132k/month, so 1mil will give them around 7.5 months if no new hiring is planed. So guess what? Now it's April, plus additional 7.5 months is around December.

Yes, there will be sales generated by Dragon Commander, and I assume that part of the sale is now in the funding as well if backer choose digital addon or anywhere above specific pledge. So like I said, we can help as much as we can to get rid of those bugs, it's not our responsibility, it's totally voluntary. I just lay the numbers and let you guys see, another "several months" to polish a game is not a easy feat to pull from producer's eyes.

Just to let you guys who have alpha/beta access know, if you haven't participate any of its kind before( stress test is no where like a official beta test), it's quite a lot of work, and might not be as fun as you would imagine. By the time game release, you would probably know the game inside out. Larian would probably avoid spoil story and create sort of scenario tests so we can still work on interface/mechanism/gameplay wise. And there will be milestones to make and work on another aspect even if current ones are not yet perfect(like balance wise, not crashing issues.)

I know everyone would like the game to be perfect, Swen definitely is one of the guy that want it. I personally would say just give them a few more months if they need it, but the reality check side of me would rather get less than perfect product and keep Larian alive, than squeeze them dry and hope D:OS become half as big as Skyrim/Bioshock( even these are buggy, remember?).

Let's help them polish the game we want, shall we?

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: PenguinTD] #465107
28/04/13 07:24 PM
28/04/13 07:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 16
Kiya-Elle Offline OP
stranger
Kiya-Elle  Offline OP
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I have alpha and beta access and fully intend to do my best to help them hunt down the bugs and polish the game PenguinTD - no worries there. If the budget won't support a couple more months that's the just the way it goes - I did say in my original post '(if) the money can be stretched that far'.

I wouldn't be all that happy about it, but it wouldn't stop me from helping Larian to try and make the game the best it can be ready for that release. cool2


Kickstarter memories - The Wierd
*Amanda Restless Weresheep of Sin* laugh
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: Kiya-Elle] #465147
28/04/13 09:59 PM
28/04/13 09:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,801
Germany
LordCrash Offline

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LordCrash  Offline

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Posts: 1,801
Germany
The whole thread is pointless Kiya.....do you really think that Larian don't know when it's the best time to release a game? I guess they have more experience in making and releasing games than 99,9% of the users here.

Talking about something in great details doesn't give the topic more sense in general I'm sorry. wink

The game should be released when it's done and when Larian thinks that it's the best time to release it. Period.


WOOS
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: LordCrash] #465154
28/04/13 10:54 PM
28/04/13 10:54 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 36
rupuka Offline
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Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: LordCrash
do you really think that Larian don't know when it's the best time to release a game?

Well, they definitely don't know when is the best time to release a kickstarter hahaha
Lack of games released or not, i don't think that the input someone can provide as a consumer is entirely pointless.

Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: rupuka] #465162
28/04/13 11:45 PM
28/04/13 11:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,801
Germany
LordCrash Offline

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LordCrash  Offline

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Posts: 1,801
Germany
Originally Posted By: rupuka
Originally Posted By: LordCrash
do you really think that Larian don't know when it's the best time to release a game?

Well, they definitely don't know when is the best time to release a kickstarter hahaha
Lack of games released or not, i don't think that the input someone can provide as a consumer is entirely pointless.

Not entirely pointless but mostly subjective and therefore not that much helpful.

Btw Larian made a million dollars with this kickstarter so it was indeed a good time for it..... wink


WOOS
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: LordCrash] #465170
29/04/13 03:49 AM
29/04/13 03:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 16
Kiya-Elle Offline OP
stranger
Kiya-Elle  Offline OP
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Posts: 16
I don't believe I have said anywhere that it is anything more than my opinion LordCrash.

You disagree with me and that's fine. however I hope that I would never be so dismissive of someone elses strongly held opinion no matter how much I disagreed with them as to say that expressing themselves in a reasonable manner on a public forum that is meant for such discussions is pointless.

If that is the way you feel about a thread you are always free to ignore it.


Kickstarter memories - The Wierd
*Amanda Restless Weresheep of Sin* laugh
Re: Plese don't go for a December release. [Re: PenguinTD] #465174
29/04/13 05:47 AM
29/04/13 05:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 363
henryv Offline

enthusiast
henryv  Offline

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Posts: 363
Originally Posted By: PenguinTD
1 mil won't last forever, Nintendo has huge pocket for Miyamoto to polish their game. If Larian is anywhere close to say, half as big when Blizzard released D2, then yeah, take your time and polish D:OS the way Swen would like it to be. I don't know how well they paid in Larian, but say for average artist would have like 40k/year, that's around 3.3k/person/month. If Larian is sized around 40 people, that's 132k/month, so 1mil will give them around 7.5 months if no new hiring is planed. So guess what? Now it's April, plus additional 7.5 months is around December.

Yes, there will be sales generated by Dragon Commander, and I assume that part of the sale is now in the funding as well if backer choose digital addon or anywhere above specific pledge. So like I said, we can help as much as we can to get rid of those bugs, it's not our responsibility, it's totally voluntary. I just lay the numbers and let you guys see, another "several months" to polish a game is not a easy feat to pull from producer's eyes.

Just to let you guys who have alpha/beta access know, if you haven't participate any of its kind before( stress test is no where like a official beta test), it's quite a lot of work, and might not be as fun as you would imagine. By the time game release, you would probably know the game inside out. Larian would probably avoid spoil story and create sort of scenario tests so we can still work on interface/mechanism/gameplay wise. And there will be milestones to make and work on another aspect even if current ones are not yet perfect(like balance wise, not crashing issues.)

I know everyone would like the game to be perfect, Swen definitely is one of the guy that want it. I personally would say just give them a few more months if they need it, but the reality check side of me would rather get less than perfect product and keep Larian alive, than squeeze them dry and hope D:OS become half as big as Skyrim/Bioshock( even these are buggy, remember?).

Let's help them polish the game we want, shall we?



If they do consolidate the team after DC's release into investing on D:OS resources, I think we'll be fine if the bug hunters (IE us) did their job well. Larian should give a forum badge for those who hunted bugs for this purpose and as a motivation. Unofficial but beneficial for them.

40 employees and estimating half of of them (or a third) only worked for D:OS. If that were to be utilized into a full extent, we'll have no problem since DC is created into a similar engine.

If you've read the blog site of swen, he said the cost the company expended on making DKS was 6m. 2m because of their location (belgium has high labor taxes). 1m will really deplete fast.

On a side note, they should release the game early november before black friday hits if all ends well. We don't want to make the game lose sales in monetary amounts due to holiday discounts. It will also increase their volume of sales once early release augments it with word of mouth before black friday.


"There is no such thing as absolute freedom because we are still prisoners of society"
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