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One Vote decides two skill trees? #577233
19/12/15 10:22 PM
19/12/15 10:22 PM
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blackmagic Offline OP
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Am I the only one who doesn't think that this is fair. At the end of the day, if we're only given one vote, we're only voting on the first tree. That vote won't accurately gauge what the community wants for the second class. For example, I want both polymorph and berserker but I could only vote for one of them. Therefore it's basically just a popularity contest.

There should be a second vote to determine the second class imo. Having one vote deciding the fate of two classes is just logically flawed in concept. The people who voted for the first tree would effectively have no say in the second tree. Also many peoples' votes for the second tree would likely with the knowledge of what the first tree would be.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577237
20/12/15 12:21 AM
20/12/15 12:21 AM
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Hoxis Offline

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Hoxis  Offline

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Truth is we need all of those skill trees.

But yeah, there should be a secondary vote option.

Last edited by Hoxis; 20/12/15 12:21 AM.
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577238
20/12/15 12:37 AM
20/12/15 12:37 AM
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Posts: 27,141
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Raze Offline

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Raze  Offline

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I assume there will be a second vote once the results of the first are in.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577246
20/12/15 09:11 AM
20/12/15 09:11 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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Honestly I have my doubts a second vote will change the outcome.

I am a bit disappointed that my pessimistic prediction came true.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577258
20/12/15 05:46 PM
20/12/15 05:46 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Stabbey  Offline
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I agree, there should be a second vote

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577271
20/12/15 09:03 PM
20/12/15 09:03 PM
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Sordak Offline
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I would also say that this way, it is skewed in a certain way.
Right now, there are no warrior skills even close to the top, id definitly like to know what the second choices of the people that chose Polymorpher were. I suspect alot of people picked Polymorpher because it is a "warrior synergetic" skill line that actually gets votes.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577295
21/12/15 10:13 AM
21/12/15 10:13 AM
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Posts: 379
Ayvah Offline

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Ayvah  Offline

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I believe it's more important that we use the Alternative Vote Method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE

Last edited by Ayvah; 21/12/15 10:14 AM.
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577296
21/12/15 10:18 AM
21/12/15 10:18 AM
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Posts: 405
Dr Koin Offline

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Dr Koin  Offline

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It never occured in my most pessimistic predictions we would only have one vote to decide two skilltrees, so I still cling to the hope there will be a second one.

If there aren't, well... Big disappointment here! i'm interested neither in Polymoprh that I still think people are getting ultra hyped about and having huge unrealistic expectations about what it will actually be, nor in Summoning Master because summons... meh.

I'm quite positive Bard would be second with a second vote and the reported votes of the 1800+ Polymorphers. Maybe it wouldn't be, but a second vote is still the right way to go regardless...


The Brotherhood of norD is love, the Brotherhood of norD is life.
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Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: Dr Koin] #577298
21/12/15 10:38 AM
21/12/15 10:38 AM
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Ayvah Offline

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Ayvah  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dr Koin
It never occured in my most pessimistic predictions we would only have one vote to decide two skilltrees, so I still cling to the hope there will be a second one.

My only problem with having two rounds of votes is that it could be the same majority that chooses both skill trees. In other words, more people would get two skills they want and less people would get at least one skill they want.

Edit:
Actually, I think a Single Transferable Vote better descibes the ideal method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI

PS: The bard would possibly be my last choice.

Last edited by Ayvah; 21/12/15 10:48 AM.
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577299
21/12/15 10:54 AM
21/12/15 10:54 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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Master Summoning is the tree I know that half the people who voted for it won't really use extensively.

The entire tree is based on more meticulous/strategic uses for summons.

Heck Master Summoner might be the only tree that has no attribute since it has no direct attacks or even buffs.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: Ayvah] #577302
21/12/15 11:26 AM
21/12/15 11:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 405
Dr Koin Offline

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Dr Koin  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Ayvah
My only problem with having two rounds of votes is that it could be the same majority that chooses both skill trees. In other words, more people would get two skills they want and less people would get at least one skill they want.

Edit:
Actually, I think a Single Transferable Vote better descibes the ideal method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI

PS: The bard would possibly be my last choice.


I see what you mean.I can't watch youtube here, but I get the issue you're refering to. I tend to agree, as I'm quite sure I won't get anything out of the votes and by extension the two stretchgoals either...

Bard is the only skill whose description actually mentions scenarios other than combats so just for that, it got my initial vote. Every other skills are described as purely combat oriented trees, which doesn't make them uninteresting, sure, but a tad less interesting than a skilltree that could be used during dialogues or stuff.

I absolutely, 0% trust Polymorph to get remotely close to the widely fantasized shapeshifting usage that was discussed back during the campaign, like turning into a mouse to get into a hole in the wall or even taking the appearance of a NPC, but I feel that's what a lot of people got from Polymorph : a "shapeshifting" skilltree, which it probably isn't. There is the Shapeshifting Mask for that :p


The Brotherhood of norD is love, the Brotherhood of norD is life.
Click to reveal..
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: Dr Koin] #577369
22/12/15 10:09 AM
22/12/15 10:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 379
Ayvah Offline

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Ayvah  Offline

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Both methods I mentioned are essentially the same. But single transferable vote is designed to also cope with having multiple winners. Basically, if your vote is going to be wasted because you've voted for a loser, then your vote transfers to your next preference. If your vote is going to be partly wasted because you voted for a clear winner, then a portion of that vote will go to your next preference.

It would make voting more complicated as we'd have to rank our preferences, but it means that there'd be far fewer arguments about the results.

For the record, I think I was too harsh on the bard. But I've never played a game where I've enjoyed the class.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577384
22/12/15 05:14 PM
22/12/15 05:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 90
Cattletech Offline

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Cattletech  Offline

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If you feel so strongly about that, maybe you should apply it to your parliament first biggrin

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577415
23/12/15 07:27 AM
23/12/15 07:27 AM
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Posts: 379
Ayvah Offline

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Ayvah  Offline

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I'm in Australia, and this is already how it works.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577440
23/12/15 02:11 PM
23/12/15 02:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 127
ChavaiotH Offline

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ChavaiotH  Offline

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Voted for the polymorph skill )) Like the idea.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #577618
26/12/15 10:46 AM
26/12/15 10:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 173
Seelenernter Offline

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Seelenernter  Offline

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Yeah, statistically two separate votes or one double vote is a great difference.

So... yes, please 2 votes!

Last edited by Seelenernter; 26/12/15 10:48 AM.

Think for yourself! Or others will do it...
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #578371
14/01/16 07:45 AM
14/01/16 07:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 127
The Centaur Offline

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The Centaur  Offline

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Originally Posted By: Ayvah

My only problem with having two rounds of votes is that it could be the same majority that chooses both skill trees. In other words, more people would get two skills they want and less people would get at least one skill they want.


I agree with Ayvah... as it is, the group that voted for the winning skill tree, already got what they wanted. Also picking the second placed skill tree, means that from the remaining voters, the largest group also got what they wanted.
Having two separate votes could mean that those who voted for the winning skill tree, got their second favorite as well... and everyone else got nothing.

So imho, one vote to decide both skill trees is the fairest solution.

Last edited by The Centaur; 14/01/16 07:50 AM.
Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #578385
14/01/16 06:31 PM
14/01/16 06:31 PM
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Neonivek Offline

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Neonivek  Offline

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Honestly the ONE thing that won't make me mad at the result is if Polymorph isn't another intelligence tree.

It REALLY shouldn't be up to the community to balance the game this way.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #578545
20/01/16 02:55 PM
20/01/16 02:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 16
Sluntchop Offline

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You sir sound like you need a little run-off voting. I wish we did it here in the states, basically you select your favorite, then you choose the vote you want if the first one loses.

Re: One Vote decides two skill trees? [Re: blackmagic] #579198
10/02/16 02:55 PM
10/02/16 02:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 558
right behind you
Madscientist Offline

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Madscientist  Offline

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right behind you
The secondvote has started and the summon master is leading at the moment.

I chose the bard (again). We already have tons of summons.


groovy Prof. Dr. Dr. Mad S. Tist groovy

World leading expert of artificial stupidity.
Because there are too many people who work on artificial intelligence already :hihi:
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