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Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: _Vic_] #654804
19/08/19 06:52 AM
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Artagel Offline
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
~

Those random encounters you also usually win using auto-attack without doing anything, not issuing a single order. I understand that is the core of adventure, you get xp an loot. Most devs use this to increase game time. But It would be nice to have less inconsequential and repetitive encounters and more difficult fights.
One thing I like of DOS games is that you do not have 2 equal fights in the entire game: every skirmish is unique because you have different enemies or different terrain. I hope they repeat the formula.

It sounds like you hope they remake DOS.

Also sounds like you don't remember playing Infinity games with low level parties. No fights are inconsequential and any enemy can kill you if you make a mistake.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #654810
19/08/19 09:53 AM
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At this point im convinced you are sock puppeting.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Artagel] #654815
19/08/19 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Artagel
Originally Posted by _Vic_
~

Those random encounters you also usually win using auto-attack without doing anything, not issuing a single order. I understand that is the core of adventure, you get xp an loot. Most devs use this to increase game time. But It would be nice to have less inconsequential and repetitive encounters and more difficult fights.
One thing I like of DOS games is that you do not have 2 equal fights in the entire game: every skirmish is unique because you have different enemies or different terrain. I hope they repeat the formula.

It sounds like you hope they remake DOS.

Also sounds like you don't remember playing Infinity games with low level parties. No fights are inconsequential and any enemy can kill you if you make a mistake.

Also remember fighting the same 5 slavers in Athkathla, unarmored and with a mage more than a dozen times. And an insanely amount of goblins, kobolds and skeletons every time I enter a map in bg. Or whenever I go buy things at Thatlantyr shop the same 5 skeletons.
Also remember when I reach level 3-5 and get some armor I won all these fights with the ia and auto-attack, not casting a single spell or moving a muscle for the rest of the game. At least in strategy games, you had the option to auto-fight...

In IWD games that does not happen, you had a set amount of enemies in the map, so you can do more complex encounters. You can ambush them, or the enemy is positioned to ambush you or has some traps laying ahead ( Like the unforgettable exploding barrels of IWD2). You feel that you are not living in a deja vu, repeating the same battle against the same 6 enemies every half hour of gameplay.
Even in Diablo games, the enemies reset and vary whenever you load the game, so It does not feel the same even if you had to fight your way again.

Not a remake of DoS but, fighting the same enemies, again and again, every time I need to buy something? An encounter with the same enemies in different colors for a gazillion time like in Japanese games? eternal grinding? unlimited spawning of the same enemies? No, thanks.


Last edited by _Vic_; 19/08/19 02:33 PM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: _Vic_] #654845
21/08/19 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
Yeah, because it is D&D, nor Axis and allies or Warhammer. They are a different type of games.


Not just D&D, but D&D 5e which is known for running more efficiently then past editions.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #654922
25/08/19 08:56 AM
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We need information about BG3 And Divinity Fallen Feroes. LARIAN PLEASE

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655291
07/09/19 12:19 AM
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Since looking at some mods and the assets for dragon knights in Original Sin 2 I was thinking a dragon companion in the DnD universe would be very interesting. Since dragons can shapeshift into human forms it could be implemented as some polymorph equivalent for gameplay purposes. But I think such a companion would have the most interesting companion quest as the dichotomy between chromatic/evil and metallic/good dragons is part of the DnD lore that has pretty much never been explored or explained. Having a typically evil dragon join the party in an attempt to overcome their evil nature or having a good dragon that is more selfish and resentful of other races (or both) would be very interesting, probably one of the most interesting party members I could envision in BG3. The only problem is such a companion, if Larian went through with it, might be TOO popular. Then again... is that necessarily a bad thing?

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655293
07/09/19 02:25 AM
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That would be amazing, but I think that would be really OP for a low-level party. the lowest rating for young dragons is CR6; and those cannot even polymorph, unless the rules changed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-search=&filter-type=6

I remember that half-dragons in pathfinder were banned by some GM because they are too overpowered, and you have the size problem in some settings. And they are only half-dragons, xD

Maybe they can delay the recruitment or something like that.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: _Vic_] #655300
07/09/19 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by _Vic_
That would be amazing, but I think that would be really OP for a low-level party. the lowest rating for young dragons is CR6; and those cannot even polymorph, unless the rules changed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-search=&filter-type=6

I remember that half-dragons in pathfinder were banned by some GM because they are too overpowered, and you have the size problem in some settings. And they are only half-dragons, xD

Maybe they can delay the recruitment or something like that.




I think what is more realistic is the Shadow Dragon spell, the best Illusion spell in 5e.

Or using True Polymorph to create a Dragon.

Last edited by Omegaphallic; 07/09/19 08:48 AM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655304
07/09/19 01:19 PM
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I really hope we get at least one companion who isn't a member of one of the playable races.
I could live with a half-dragon but only if they look like this [img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...cale-to-width-down/350?cb=20190802170648[/img] Half-Dragon should have clear Darconic features and not just be humans who can transform, into Dragons at will.
Still, don't understand why they haven't become a playable race but instead those boring Dragonborn who don't even have a tail.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655306
07/09/19 01:48 PM
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The most important thing for me is interesting npc companions (and a lot) just like in BG2 with their own personal quests and banters.
Also interaction between npc's and relationships.

As choosable races I would like to see drow, half drow, duergar and thiefling (possibly these races also for npc's)
I could imagine that the arrival of the illithid could trigger a lot of attention from these races, not to mention the Gith which is obvious.

I also hope that they provide for interesting demon summoning spells.

What also could be interesting is an unkown (not mentioned) daughter of Viconia DeVir and the Baalspawn from BG2. Half drow, half Baalspawn.


Last edited by Vecna; 07/09/19 02:04 PM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655312
07/09/19 06:13 PM
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MTOFs had a few interesting Demon and Devil summoning spells. But the Clerics Planar Ally is still the sadest way to recruit fiends

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Omegaphallic] #655443
11/09/19 07:58 PM
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My suggestion during fights with difficult opponents (like in BG2 dragons, demi lich) would be the familiar tune from BG (or perhaps slightly modified). Always reminds you of epic battles

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Vecna] #655446
12/09/19 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Vecna
The most important thing for me is interesting npc companions (and a lot) just like in BG2 with their own personal quests and banters.
Also interaction between npc's and relationships.

As choosable races I would like to see drow, half drow, duergar and thiefling (possibly these races also for npc's)
I could imagine that the arrival of the illithid could trigger a lot of attention from these races, not to mention the Gith which is obvious.

I also hope that they provide for interesting demon summoning spells.

What also could be interesting is an unkown (not mentioned) daughter of Viconia DeVir and the Baalspawn from BG2. Half drow, half Baalspawn.


Can I please have your robe.
I need it.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Hawke] #655458
12/09/19 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hawke
I really hope we get at least one companion who isn't a member of one of the playable races.
I could live with a half-dragon but only if they look like this [img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...cale-to-width-down/350?cb=20190802170648[/img] Half-Dragon should have clear Darconic features and not just be humans who can transform, into Dragons at will.
Still, don't understand why they haven't become a playable race but instead those boring Dragonborn who don't even have a tail.


There is a mod in P:K that allows you to play as a half-dragon, but they do not look like that nice XD. You also have the druid shapeshift and some spells that can turn you into a (very powerful) dragon form.
[Linked Image]

There are wings, tails, and horns in games like P:K or the two NWN, I do not think that is too hard to implement. Dragonborn look like a dwarf with a lizard head, indeed. Tails or wings or claws would be welcome.

Swen Vincke said that "the Mindflayers are not the main adversaries in BGIII: they hinted that the mindflayers are somehow victims, have complex motivations, a tragic story and are slaves of a greater power" Yeaaah... that is one way to put it.
https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/01/bald...e-the-state-of-the-art-in-rpgs-10094263/

So my bet is for an Ilithid or ulitharid companion, possibly inspired in Clarota the mindflayer.
[Linked Image]

Maybe a Gith too. It would be interesting to have both in the same party. I bet they would not be together for too long.

Originally Posted by Vecna
The most important thing for me is interesting npc companions (and a lot) just like in BG2 with their own personal quests and banters.
Also interaction between npc's and relationships.

As choosable races I would like to see drow, half drow, duergar and thiefling (possibly these races also for npc's)
I could imagine that the arrival of the illithid could trigger a lot of attention from these races, not to mention the Gith which is obvious.

I also hope that they provide for interesting demon summoning spells.

What also could be interesting is an unkown (not mentioned) daughter of Viconia DeVir and the Baalspawn from BG2. Half drow, half Baalspawn.



They said that in BG3 they will use the infamous canon character "Abdel Adrian" (also the canon ending of WOTC for the BG saga and the ending of Abdel Adrian in the "Murder in Baldur's Gate" PA). At least in the (terrible) books he romances Jaheira and Jaheira only (if you can call that romance whatever is in that books).
But it would be a nice cameo.

About races, It would be cool to have Genasi, changeling or Goliath races, if possible. I liked the Unearthed Arcana races. Even in a DLC.


Originally Posted by Artagel
Originally Posted by Vecna
The most important thing for me is interesting npc companions (and a lot) just like in BG2 with their own personal quests and banters.
Also interaction between npc's and relationships.

As choosable races I would like to see drow, half drow, duergar and thiefling (possibly these races also for npc's)
I could imagine that the arrival of the illithid could trigger a lot of attention from these races, not to mention the Gith which is obvious.

I also hope that they provide for interesting demon summoning spells.

What also could be interesting is an unkown (not mentioned) daughter of Viconia DeVir and the Baalspawn from BG2. Half drow, half Baalspawn.


Can I please have your robe.
I need it.



Dibs on his eye and hand!

Last edited by _Vic_; 12/09/19 07:44 AM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Vecna] #655463
12/09/19 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Vecna
The most important thing for me is interesting npc companions (and a lot) just like in BG2 with their own personal quests and banters.
Also interaction between npc's and relationships.

As choosable races I would like to see drow, half drow, duergar and thiefling (possibly these races also for npc's)
I could imagine that the arrival of the illithid could trigger a lot of attention from these races, not to mention the Gith which is obvious.

I also hope that they provide for interesting demon summoning spells.

What also could be interesting is an unkown (not mentioned) daughter of Viconia DeVir and the Baalspawn from BG2. Half drow, half Baalspawn.


Ah, well that's just what sets the Western video game industry apart from its Japanese counterpart. You see, the latter doesn't let popular characters go to waste (they reappear in non-canon games as cameos or playable characters to the point of being accused of making cash grabs or milking their fan base) whereas the former kills them off as soon as they have a few boss scalps under their belt. Just look up the overall RPG sales stats and you'll tell how the Japanese care about their IP and assets more deeply. More importantly, they develop their IPs more successfully.

EDIT: Yes, I know dealing with a character that is made by the player is harder to work with but it shouldn't have been too much trouble importing your BG2 save and adding a few lines, statues or NPCs based on your previous choices. Especially if they were the main character of all the previous installments and DLC! A shopkeep who is descended from the Bhaalspawn and their romantic partner, a temple housing the Bhaalspawn's remains (if your character was a cleric) etc. So much could have been done. It would have added some semblance of continuity to the series. Now series' veterans (or semi-veterans) such as yours truly will be alienated from BG3.

Last edited by korotama; 12/09/19 07:54 AM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655466
12/09/19 07:59 AM
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I wholeheartedly agree: Japanese videogame franchises always had more long-standing franchises (some of them are still launching titles like Fire Emblem, Kingdom Hearts, Shin Megami Tensei, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Pokemon, Shenmue, etc)than western ones, with a few exceptions. The older JRPG franchises have more than 25 years of history because of the things you already stated and a solid fan base.

Originally Posted by korotama


EDIT: Yes, I know dealing with a character that is made by the player is harder to work with but it shouldn't have been too much trouble importing your BG2 save and adding a few lines, statues or NPCs based on your previous choices. Especially if they were the main character of all the previous installments and DLC! A shopkeep who is descended from the Bhaalspawn and their romantic partner, a temple housing the Bhaalspawn's remains (if your character was a cleric) etc. So much could have been done. It would have added some semblance of continuity to the series. Now series' veterans (or semi-veterans) such as yours truly will be alienated from BG3.

They made it without much fuzz in Dragon Age series, KOTOR, Gothic, Castlevania or even in Devil May Cry series, each one with a different approach. I think Larian took a stance of getting distance with the previous games, and that showed in all the interviews and tweets about the upcoming BG3 game. Plenty of winks to WOTC but little to none to the old bg videogame series.

Last edited by _Vic_; 12/09/19 08:21 AM.
Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: _Vic_] #655473
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As long as the storyline is solid , the surroundings and enemies interesting and the characters have depth I am all set.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655492
13/09/19 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Danielbda
Hi all,
I'm a huge RPG and D&D fan from Brazil and have been for around 15 years and, as the news came to my ears I couldn't contain my excitement, specially since BG3 will be based on 5ed, which is a middle ground between the complex 3.5ed and the action focused 4ed.
So, let's cut to the business. I would like to offer some suggestions, and my reasons for said suggestions, based on my experience as a player of both tabletop and PC RPGs so to make BG3 potentially more enjoyable (maybe this can become an official thread where other players can also post their suggestions):

1. Party Customization : BG3 should have a customizable companion system or allow for stats customization by the player.
Game devs are not necessarily good at games, that is, in this case if companions come with preset stats and feats, they might not be optimized or even make sense for their class. A good example is Pillars of Eternity, a fantastic game but it does suffer from the aforementioned issue.
Some companions in PoE have poorly allocated stats, which leads to an incentive to not have them on your party. It doesn't matter how well written a companion is, if he/she becomes a nuissance when in combat.
This leads to the next suggestion.

2. Have the companions be recruited early in the campaign:
If companions' stats will be customizable by the players, it would be better to recruit them early, so to build them in whatever way the player would like. Specifically, it would be better to recruit all companions before level 3, which is a turning point in D&D for you are allowed to choose an archetype for your class, and every player has his/her preferences for each class.

3. Have at least a companion of each class:
Every player has his/her optimal party composition. Having all the classes at your disposal allows you to try them all and will lead to less frustration and moments such as "How I wish I had someone to use Crown of Madness and make this two dragons fight each other" or "How I wish I had a Bard to use an enchantment and convince this NPC to allow me passage without combat".
This was done in Dragon Age: Inquisition, where you have a companion that represents each subclass in the game.

4. Dynamic companion quests/Dynamic quests:
The previous suggestions lead to a very interesting question: What if the companion quests (something standard that I imagine is already planned) change according to their archetypes?
For example, you have a companion Paladin that can choose between several oaths at level 3. These determine his tenants as well as have a lot to with his personality and motivations. An oath of vengeance Paladin would have the same objective as an oath of the ancients Paladin?
Just imagine how much replayability this would add to the game.

5. More magical items (besides +1-3):
5ed suffers from a lack of magical item variety. There are entire weapons types that have no magical items of that type other than +1-3, such as rapiers and crossbows, whereas you have a ton of magical daggers, scimitars and longswords (specially longswords).

6. Better poisons and poisonmaking:
Poison in 5ed sucks. You might require up to a YEAR to craft a single use of poison that is not even that strong. So more potent poisons and just needing the matherials to craft them in a click of a button would be nice.

7. Interactive environments:
Some classes such as the Rogue need an interactive environment to work better. For example, using trees for hiding (through cunning action) during combat, or use a window to sneak into a place of interest.

These are the ones at the top of my head right now, but I will edit this post with more. If some developer could read and give some feedback it would be amazing.
Would be cool if the other members put their suggestions here too.



Just a couple things to consider in this list of suggestions, comments numbered based on the original post suggestion numbers.
1. Perhaps, but IMO better left to the legion of modders that will flock upon release. Frankly, the joinable NPCs is so integral to Baldur's Gate as a franchise I do not believe that customizing them to the individuals player desire is a good thing. Thinking back there was a STORY behind Minsc's low INT/WIS, Khaleid had famously low morale "Better part of valor!" and there was simply something to be said for the fact that the NPCs were not optimized (leave that to the main character, 'Charname')

2. Again, this goes against the fundamentals of what Baldur's Gate IS... It's about telling a story, and in a story everyone is not located at one convenient 'hub'. I frankly dislike how games today allow you to collect a legion of companions, but you only take 3 with you and the other dozen sit at 'camp' or 'home base' or whatever. In Baldur's Gate you can recruit companions, or not... Some will stay where you find them, some will move to a different location in the game world, and others will leave forever, never seen again if you don't bring them in to your party. There is nothing wrong with a companion that is recruited later in the game, if anything the mistake made in the originals was those late game PC's were not properly set up to compete with how your other NPC's leveled. For example Alora's thieving skills were not distributed well and she probably should have been a level or 2 higher (based on charname XP rather than level, perhpas). In fact, I always saw Alora and Eldath/Skie as being late game party members you might grab should you decide to dual class Imoen in to a mage.

3. Agree. And in fact one thing that annoyed me in Dragon Age: Origins is the fact that you either play rogue class or you accept that until you get to Lothering you can't open any chests at all, losing out on 100's (1000's?) of XP as well as loot/gold/potions. However, D&D has insane numbers of classes, so perhaps better to say 'have at least one of each role' You don't necessarily need to provide a Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, and Barbarian as NPCs. I would still prefer that Larian offers the player the option to PLAY all of those classes, but doesn't need to actually provide an NPC for EVERY class and race.

4. love it, so long as it is determined based on player / npc interactions and not just a selection. BG NPCs are supposed to have their own personalities and just giving an arbitrary selection doesn't make sense. Selecting an oath that doesn't align to the paladin's conversations/personalities is arbitrary and has no meaning to the story. However, if it designed where the paladin has a default oath, but the oath could be changed based on conversations and actions of the PC (and perhaps the PCs status with said paladin) and then the companion quest is adjusted accordingly that would be a win. However, it is unrealistic to expect to have a dozen possible companions, five of which you can take with you, all of which have 3 or more potential companion quests. That would be like Dragon Age Origins, but instead of 6, you have about 36 quests. These quests will either be very small or the variations so minimal as to be nearly unnoticeable. Quality over quantity should be the order of the day so discretion is needed.

5. Nope. 5e is not about MORE magical items, it is about more meaningful magic items. In 5e you have plenty of weapons that, instead of +1-3 do other things, such as doing an extra damage die on critical hits, expanding the crit range, providing for circumstantial advantage, etc. You also have goggles to allow humans and other non-dark vision having races to see in the dark (hopefully important!) etc. Regardless, I would rather see MEANINGFUL magical items, like in the original games, with cool back stories, extra powers etc. rather than a +2 weapon of every type. Varscona Long Sword +2, +1 cold damage with interesting back story is far better than +2 of every weapon type. Too much magic cheapens magic and it is supposed to be relatively rare, even in Forgotten Realms. Too many video games even all the way back to gold box games do not accurately portray this. In a PnP campaign a party of level 5 PCs might have 3 or 4 magic items, not including a few potions or scrolls. In most CRPGs by level 5 every character is generally equipping 3-5 magic items... Easier to balance difficulty when magic is at least somewhat rare. This also makes taking an Eldritch Knight Fighter have benefit over Champion or Battle Master, whereas if magic is everywhere there is less reason to focus on being able to cast it yourself.


6. I would hope they would make poison something that is a bit more realistic and usable, but to be honest poison hasn't been frightening since 2e... poison has gone from you better get a neutralize poison or you will be dead quickly, to take a couple points of stat damage that in many cases you don't care about, to simply a damage type. Depending on how much ability they have to change core mechanics of D&D it might be interesting if they are allowed to make poison cooler, but if it's left as just a damage type with different poisons equating to different bonus damages than better to spend their time elsewhere IMO.

7. Agree and would certainly hope for this. Even in BG1 you had a better chance to hide in shadows when in the 'shade' of a tree vs. out in the open... Expectation would certainly be to enhance/improve upon environmental variance.

Overall good ideas, just felt I needed to add my two cents (for as little as it's worth) as some things I feel are integral to what defines the BG franchise and should not be lost in favor of giving more options. Options can be good, but giving too many options can make for a looser game and story, which would be a poor outcome since the BG Trilogy was all about tight story telling at the end of the day. (that and amazingly complex spell mechanics leading to some really interesting tactical battles.)

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Danielbda] #655495
13/09/19 01:28 PM
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What I want from Baldur's Gate 3 is more of what made Baldur's Gate 1 and especially 2 outstanding classics. Which definitely wasn't the story, serviceable at most.

It was the sheer size, scope and variety. The great dungeons, the clean and simple interface, the excellent encounter design and the enormous variety of enemies.
Also, one of the best itemization systems in a RPG to date and a progression system that had a very reasonable, smooth curve of growth (far from some of the absurdities seen in DOS 2).

What I definitely do NOT want from Baldur's Gate 3 is to start taking notes from JRPGs, a subgenre that with very few exceptions has always been the dumb cousin of computer RPGs, with all the focus on the wrong things and sheer negligence for whay I actually love in the genre.

Re: [DEVS PLEASE READ] Suggestions for BG3 [Re: Tuco] #655501
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Vecna  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 8
I agree fully with Tuco. The variety and also dedicated lore was awesome in BG1 and 2. Not comparable with Pathfinder Kingmaker where you find another +2 weapon without background story. Not to mention the boring environment, encounters there and discussions without depth (between NPC's)

Last edited by Vecna; 13/09/19 05:08 PM.
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