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Monkey's Paw #656035
05/10/19 02:15 PM
05/10/19 02:15 PM
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Argyle Offline OP
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The Wish spell has been in the D&D universe for a long time, dating back at least to the "Dungeons & Dragons, Book II - Monsters and Treasure" by Gygax & Arneson in 1973. And in that crusted old volume there is a statement, "Wishes that unfortunate adventures had never happened should be granted."

It seems to me that this is a legitimate in-game mechanism for the reload of a prior save. I don't know why Bioware never put that in as an option for either the Wish or Limited Wish spells, because all the software functions were already there with the quick reload key. Reload really is a superpower and I guess it will always need to be there to reduce frustration ... but I'd like to have a chance to play BG III without relying on unlimited reload powers, and to use reload only when it is actually part of the gameplay. I wish it so.

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656038
05/10/19 03:27 PM
05/10/19 03:27 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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So... no reloads until you reach level 18 when your caster can cast the spell? Does that sound reasonable in a hundred hour game?

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656041
05/10/19 05:28 PM
05/10/19 05:28 PM
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Argyle Offline OP
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The first appearance of Wish in D&D was not actually the wizard spell, but the Ring of Three Wishes which any character could use. Early AD&D also provided many other means of wishes such as magic pools, scrolls, Djinn, Efreet, arch-devils, Deck of Many Things, Talisman of Zagy, Sword +1 Luck Blade, magic altars, artifacts, etc., and then of course there is always the Monkey's Paw. Perhaps a 7th level Limited Wish would be a better way to keep it under control.

I am not advocating the removal of reloads like we are all used to having, I am just asking if Larian could also provide an in-game means of magical reload. It should be very simple to implement, so why not? Lots of people have attempted to do "no reload" runs through the BG series, so I think there would be some interest in this feature.

Quote: “I’ll make a wish that can’t backfire. I wish for a turkey sandwich, on rye bread, with lettuce and mustard and-and I don’t want any zombie turkeys, I don’t want to turn into a turkey myself, and I don’t want any other weird surprises. You got it? . . . Hey! Hmmm, mmm, not bad, nice hot mustard, good bread, the turkey’s a little dry . . . the turkey’s a little dry! Oh foul accursed thing! What demon from the depths of hell created thee?” – Homer Simpson

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656042
05/10/19 06:20 PM
05/10/19 06:20 PM
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_Vic_ Online content
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Strangely enough Swen Vincke already said that the wish spell has high chances of appearing in the game, because "has is uses in narrative and roleplay". It is surprising because in the interviews they always affirm that they struggled with the spell system of D&D, but there are some spells like cure wounds or magic missile that will be implemented with no major problems.
It's in the podcast in https://kotaku.com/the-ranger-class-is-getting-some-changes-in-d-d-and-ba-1835659585

It is a welcome addition, but to be honest I always thought that the "wish" spell, the "Augury" spell of the clerics (that is also a ritual spell, so you could cast it for free) and the diviner's Portent/greater portent are almost blatant cheating. But if your DM allows it...

Last edited by _Vic_; 05/10/19 06:20 PM.
Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656043
05/10/19 07:03 PM
05/10/19 07:03 PM
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If the game has a normal videogame reloading system, players will rightfully say "why should I waste a wish on a reload when I can spend it on something more useful?". They'll save their rings of three wishes for other things and will not use them for reloading. It's like hoarding incredibly rare potions "in case I need it later" and often later never comes.

If the game only allows reloading through Rings of Reloading, lots of players (myself included) will pan the restrictive saving system.

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656046
05/10/19 08:48 PM
05/10/19 08:48 PM
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They wish spell as defined in the 5e PHB explains that the wills can be used as a spell cast of any spell 8th level or lower. So that part will be easy to implement.

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Stabbey] #656085
08/10/19 01:59 AM
08/10/19 01:59 AM
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Argyle Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
If the game has a normal videogame reloading system, players will rightfully say "why should I waste a wish on a reload when I can spend it on something more useful?". They'll save their rings of three wishes for other things and will not use them for reloading. It's like hoarding incredibly rare potions "in case I need it later" and often later never comes.

If the game only allows reloading through Rings of Reloading, lots of players (myself included) will pan the restrictive saving system.



I totally get where you are coming from. The solution is easy ... just add a reload counter to the character statistics page. Every time you reload a save that goes back in time, the reload counter increments by one. That way you can still save & quit to go eat dinner, etc. without penalty. And if you don't care about this, just ignore the counter.

In pen & paper D&D there was no "reload" other than via Wish or DM intervention; and the game became quite popular regardless.

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656086
08/10/19 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Argyle
I totally get where you are coming from. The solution is easy ... just add a reload counter to the character statistics page. Every time you reload a save that goes back in time, the reload counter increments by one. That way you can still save & quit to go eat dinner, etc. without penalty. And if you don't care about this, just ignore the counter.


I suppose. But would Larian think that's something worth implementing for a small fraction of players?

Originally Posted by Argyle
In pen & paper D&D there was no "reload" other than via Wish or DM intervention; and the game became quite popular regardless.


Yes. That is not relevant though. When you adapt a work for another medium, changes happen. Pen and Paper sessions do not lend themselves easily to "save anywhere, reload anytime" mechanics for the participants, but computer games handle that pretty easily for the user. Adaptations should work to the strengths of the new medium. I suppose the Lord of the Rings films could have just been someone reading aloud while a camera was focused on pages of the book text, but that wouldn't have been the best way to take advantage of the medium of film.

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656108
08/10/19 05:59 PM
08/10/19 05:59 PM
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i agree with that notion.
Saying Dnd doesnt have a save button is irrelevant.

DnD also has a DM, a video game doesnt.
If you screw up a quest in a video game, youre missing out on content. if in DnD you screw up a quest, you have a fialure state which leads to more content. You cannot compare the two, and thus the consequences are of a different nature.

Not beeing allowed to save in a PnP game ads consequences in the world and to your character. Not beeing able to save in a video game ads tedium and wiki gaming.

IF anything, you might aswell have a one-save-only mode. OS2 has that so why not just go with that.
I generaly think options are better than dictatig how other people enoy their game, unless you are talking about specific niches like dark souls

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656114
08/10/19 11:39 PM
08/10/19 11:39 PM
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Argyle Offline OP
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I am not asking anyone to forsake the reload/save-game feature, by all means leave it in there. I am sure that I will use it. I am just saying that with very little effort Larian can add a different play-style to the game, and I would definitely try it.

How does it work in those persistent online NWN multi-player worlds? I have never tried anything like that ... can you reload there? Do those games take advantage of the medium?

Re: Monkey's Paw [Re: Argyle] #656118
09/10/19 06:43 AM
09/10/19 06:43 AM
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no because those multiplayer worlds have DMs like regular sessions do.

That beeing said, they do have respawning


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