Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Lord of Chaos #658430
25/01/20 08:55 AM
25/01/20 08:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
So, in one wiki, I found this information. ''During this time the Seven also waged war against the God of Demons the Lord of Chaos. This war reached its climax when the Council of Seven sacrificed themselves to banish the Lord of Chaos from Rivellon and with the defeat of the Damned Ones; evil wizards who summoned the Chaos Lord into Rivellon in their desire for power and revenge.''

Who is this Lord of Chaos? Is he one of the Eternal, like the Seven?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658439
25/01/20 02:46 PM
25/01/20 02:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Real name of Lord of Chaos is Swen Vincke. With chaos magic he changes and rewrites the lore of the Divinity universe with each new game. And as more and more frustration of gamers is growing, also growing his dark powers.

Last edited by Soccer; 25/01/20 02:52 PM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658458
26/01/20 01:45 AM
26/01/20 01:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
C
caninelegion Offline
Bugfinder General
caninelegion  Offline
Bugfinder General
C

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
In "Divine Divinity" and "Beyond Divinity", we learn of this entity. The evil wizards referred to is the Black Ring. There's a somewhat good rehash of this somewhere in one of the games. I did find this short bit: "The Lord of Chaos is the god who created demons, just as 6 of the Seven created their own mortal races. He is presumably an Eternal, since his godhood predates the creation of mortals, but it is never actually confirmed in D:OS2, since he is dead and reincarnated as Damian by that point." My take is that it is void vs source in the game world with the gods fighting the void since it would end their source infused rule while the Lord of Chaos (now Damien) is a third power also against the gods since it wants to take their place and also against the void (OS1). Then, in my view, there is the God King. I haven't finished DOS2 yet so I am lacking a lot of input (I assume) but I have to wonder if this isn't the eternal king who denied Fane his desire to investigate is great finding on source. If so, I assume he was thrown into the void with the others and represents yet a fourth power in the world. It's a typical modern good vs evil; modern meaning good isn't all that good nor is evil all that evil, ie, not a black and white sort of thing (which makes for great gaming since the choice is not clear). The story, IMO, has been intentionally left vague so new ideas that are thought to be better can be twisted into it as new games are made. I prefer a more united story, though, as it is more immersive. However, I have yet to find the game maker who writes a story that is not released to the public then makes games in sequence to fit that story. I can see why - later ideas may be better so they, of course, want to incorporate them. Just another give and take I suppose.

Last edited by caninelegion; 26/01/20 01:58 AM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658468
26/01/20 10:03 AM
26/01/20 10:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
In ingame books in DD Lord of Chaos was presented as one of seven Gods, creator of demons, who decided to take Rivellon for himself and demons. He tried couple times, with various level of progress, but always failed. In his latest attempt, plot of Divine Divinity, he used Demon of Lies in order to secure human baby, Damian, who will become his champion and holder of some portion of his power. Damian is not reincarnation of Lord of Chaos, he's more like Divine one from evil God, called Damned one. If Damian would died, Lord of Chaos would redegenerate his power and try again later. And this, is no longer canon...

Lord of Chaos wasn't mention even once in both D:OS and D:OS2. In D:OS2 it's was specified that there was Seven Lords, who become Seven Gods, not eight. Black Ring, who were fanatical worshipers of Lord of Chaos, now is just a bunch of mercenaries who works for the evilest guy around, even considering the fact about them knowing that Damian not dead and was banished to Nemesis, because Damian forces made large scale recruitments in Rivellon in Beyond Divinity, with pamphlets and everything.

Last edited by Soccer; 26/01/20 10:05 AM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: Soccer] #658473
26/01/20 01:25 PM
26/01/20 01:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,353
Canada
Raze Offline

Larian Studios
Raze  Offline

Larian Studios

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,353
Canada
Originally Posted by Soccer
In ingame books in DD Lord of Chaos was presented as one of seven Gods

No, he wasn't one of the Seven.
One of the books: A Short History of the Seven Gods.
When the seven Gods were still young they decided that each of them should have their own race which they would guide through the eternal flow of time. And thus it happened that Rhalic, the most powerful of all Gods, become the patron of the humans. The burly Duna created the dwarves in his own likeness and even lived with them for a long time in tunnels deep beneath the earth. Tir-Cendelius, who is also called the Poet, went into the woods and created the elves. He blessed them with near-immortality and wisdom. The reptile goddess Zorl-Stissa wished to command a proud warrior race and thus she created the lizard people - fierce fighters from the Wastelands.

The God Vrogir, renowned for his brutality and acts of violence created the orcs and enslaved them for more than three hundred years before he left Rivellon. Xantezza, the Goddess of mirth and laughter wanted an intelligent race, versed in the arts of magic around her. She created the imps, who were talented magicians and engineers. The Goddess Amadia was an outsider, preferring to live in complete solitude. As the centuries passed the six races spread over the whole continent. One day Amadia fell in love with a wizard and she give birth to several demi-gods. She granted her lover immortality and decided that she would act as the patron mother of the wizards. Although wizards are not really considered as a separate race, they now have their own goddess whom they worship...


The story of D:OS leads into the pre-history of DD, being set 1200 years before DD (and 100 years before the first attack from the Lord of Chaos), so not mentioning him isn't surprising.

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658474
26/01/20 01:30 PM
26/01/20 01:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
One of the endings mentions that the last member of the Black Ring was desperate and prayed, hoping that at least someone would answer him and Damien contacted him. So no, they did not know that he was alive.

Last edited by darkoms1; 26/01/20 01:31 PM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658475
26/01/20 01:33 PM
26/01/20 01:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
What about dragons? Didn't Zorl-Stissa create dragons, and then turn them into lizards?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658476
26/01/20 01:35 PM
26/01/20 01:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
''Zizzax: Clorex zibrib. Listen now. I start from beginning. All this world made by the Gods in the time before there was death. They make trees, flowers, animals, rocks and all sorts...

Lucian: That I could have guessed. What good are the Gods if they didn't make everything to start with?

Zizzax: Ziggurunt meggrax! Shut up and listen! One of the Gods, called himself Lord of Chaos. He broke the rules and made intelligent creatures to be his slaves. He called them demons, and that succubus you killed is being an excellent example. Zix zzix!

Lucian: So demons were the first intelligent race?

Zizzax: Soodix. Yes, indeed. They the oldest and be hating the newcomers as they call all the rest like you and me. Other Gods got angry at Lord of Chaos and tried to kill the demons. But that not work so Gods made their own intelligent races to fight by them - elves, humans, orcs, imps, dwarves, trolls, lizards... all of us who not demons, in fact. Understand?

Lucian: I remember my mother telling me stories about the Gods, but I never heard this...

Zizzax: Zickoid! This long-buried history. Soon it became clear that even with little mortal helpers to fight Lord of Chaos and his demons, good Gods still going to lose. So good Gods decide to play dirty. They left this physical world forever and this sucked old Chaos Lord along with them. But he got stuck between the spirit and physical plane. There he trapped and place called Hell grew around him. Understand?

Lucian: Not exactly...

Zizzax: Hrootix! Good, at least you paying attention. Nobody really understands what happened to old Chaos. Now listen to more. Mortal races eventually kill all the demons. All demons go down to hell to play with big bad Lord of Chaos, ha ha. But sometimes demons find ways to come back to Land of the Living. Possess minds and tear-up innocent people. So good Gods, who now live only in spirit-world, choose certain mortals to become champions against evil...''

Is that still canon?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: Raze] #658487
26/01/20 06:46 PM
26/01/20 06:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Originally Posted by Raze

One of the books: A Short History of the Seven Gods.
When the seven Gods were still young they decided that each of them should have their own race which they would guide through the eternal flow of time. And thus it happened that Rhalic, the most powerful of all Gods, become the patron of the humans. The burly Duna created the dwarves in his own likeness and even lived with them for a long time in tunnels deep beneath the earth. Tir-Cendelius, who is also called the Poet, went into the woods and created the elves. He blessed them with near-immortality and wisdom. The reptile goddess Zorl-Stissa wished to command a proud warrior race and thus she created the lizard people - fierce fighters from the Wastelands.

The God Vrogir, renowned for his brutality and acts of violence created the orcs and enslaved them for more than three hundred years before he left Rivellon. Xantezza, the Goddess of mirth and laughter wanted an intelligent race, versed in the arts of magic around her. She created the imps, who were talented magicians and engineers. The Goddess Amadia was an outsider, preferring to live in complete solitude. As the centuries passed the six races spread over the whole continent. One day Amadia fell in love with a wizard and she give birth to several demi-gods. She granted her lover immortality and decided that she would act as the patron mother of the wizards. Although wizards are not really considered as a separate race, they now have their own goddess whom they worship...

Well, It's looks like a propaganda written by Rhalic himself. There no mention that whole purpose of creating mortal races is for them to become gods food after their death. We factually know that Gods don't "guide them through the eternal flow of time", only mortal souls to their stomachs. So credibility of this book is quite low.

Originally Posted by Raze

The story of D:OS leads into the pre-history of DD, being set 1200 years before DD (and 100 years before the first attack from the Lord of Chaos), so not mentioning him isn't surprising.

The demons were even in Dragon Commander, which was 8000 (or something) years before D:OS, which means that Lord of Chaos was active.

P.S. Raze, I know I debating semantics here, but I just couldn't help myself, sorry. I still pretty sure I saw this info about Lord of Chaos somewhere in the game. Maybe I'm wrong here. Only one thing I am absolutely sure of, it's that Epstein didn't kill himself.

Last edited by Soccer; 26/01/20 07:19 PM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658493
27/01/20 04:09 AM
27/01/20 04:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
C
caninelegion Offline
Bugfinder General
caninelegion  Offline
Bugfinder General
C

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
Well that's obvious! smile

I guess the question is, is the demon in Lohse's head a free-lancer or does he work for the lord of Chaos? Is this the same arch- demon from BD? Is the old dragon in DD and the creator of dragon knights an eternal? Is he one of the few who did not turn into lizards? Why does the lizard god not look like a dragon? Well, that's more then one question, isn't it?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: caninelegion] #658496
27/01/20 08:01 AM
27/01/20 08:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Originally Posted by darkoms1
''Zizzax: Clorex zibrib. Listen now. I start from beginning. All this world made by the Gods in the time before there was death. They make trees, flowers, animals, rocks and all sorts...

Lucian: That I could have guessed. What good are the Gods if they didn't make everything to start with?

Zizzax: Ziggurunt meggrax! Shut up and listen! One of the Gods, called himself Lord of Chaos. He broke the rules and made intelligent creatures to be his slaves. He called them demons, and that succubus you killed is being an excellent example. Zix zzix!

Lucian: So demons were the first intelligent race?

Zizzax: Soodix. Yes, indeed. They the oldest and be hating the newcomers as they call all the rest like you and me. Other Gods got angry at Lord of Chaos and tried to kill the demons. But that not work so Gods made their own intelligent races to fight by them - elves, humans, orcs, imps, dwarves, trolls, lizards... all of us who not demons, in fact. Understand?

Lucian: I remember my mother telling me stories about the Gods, but I never heard this...

Zizzax: Zickoid! This long-buried history. Soon it became clear that even with little mortal helpers to fight Lord of Chaos and his demons, good Gods still going to lose. So good Gods decide to play dirty. They left this physical world forever and this sucked old Chaos Lord along with them. But he got stuck between the spirit and physical plane. There he trapped and place called Hell grew around him. Understand?

Lucian: Not exactly...

Zizzax: Hrootix! Good, at least you paying attention. Nobody really understands what happened to old Chaos. Now listen to more. Mortal races eventually kill all the demons. All demons go down to hell to play with big bad Lord of Chaos, ha ha. But sometimes demons find ways to come back to Land of the Living. Possess minds and tear-up innocent people. So good Gods, who now live only in spirit-world, choose certain mortals to become champions against evil...''

Is that still canon?

It's really hard to tell for sure. On one hand Zixzax the Almost-Wise is mostly credible ingame imp historian and researcher, who lived more than 1500 years, on the other canon in lore changes every game and even Swen Vincke, director of Larian, said that they not particularly looking for continuity in Divinity series. So answer on your question, maybe yes, but probably not.


Originally Posted by caninelegion

I guess the question is, is the demon in Lohse's head a free-lancer or does he work for the lord of Chaos? Is this the same arch- demon from BD? Is the old dragon in DD and the creator of dragon knights an eternal? Is he one of the few who did not turn into lizards? Why does the lizard god not look like a dragon? Well, that's more then one question, isn't it?

I think that some archdemon can easily have agendas of their own. And no, Adramahlihk appeared only in Divinity : Original Sin 2. Origin of dragons is probably has to do something with Zorl-Stissa, creator of lizards. Maybe they were some beta version of her vision race in her image.

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658499
27/01/20 09:51 AM
27/01/20 09:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
The patriarch mentioned the Uroboros-god of all dragons, but in D OS 2 the Prince of Shadows says that the lizards were dragons, but the remaining 6 races united against them and almost destroyed, because of which, perhaps, Zorl-Stissa turned them into lizards so that they spared by other races

Last edited by darkoms1; 27/01/20 09:51 AM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658507
27/01/20 09:03 PM
27/01/20 09:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Originally Posted by darkoms1
The patriarch mentioned the Uroboros-god of all dragons, but in D OS 2 the Prince of Shadows says that the lizards were dragons, but the remaining 6 races united against them and almost destroyed, because of which, perhaps, Zorl-Stissa turned them into lizards so that they spared by other races

I never actually finished Divinity 2, Dragon Knight saga, so I can't say anything about it. But assuming you know your onions, it's still don't change the fact that Larian can change the lore of their previous game any way they like. Larian's Divinity series isn't like the Elder Scrolls of Bethesda's, where the latter has to put some serious arguments and justifications to the active series fanbase for every slightest change to the lore. Larian can say in the next game that all races came from another planet on starships and everyone in Divinity fandom will buy that. Everything what if matter for most of them, it's some cool and flashy turn based battles and roleplay.

Last edited by Soccer; 27/01/20 09:04 PM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: Soccer] #658510
28/01/20 02:15 AM
28/01/20 02:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
C
caninelegion Offline
Bugfinder General
caninelegion  Offline
Bugfinder General
C

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
Originally Posted by Soccer
Originally Posted by darkoms1
'
[quote=caninelegion]
I guess the question is, is the demon in Lohse's head a free-lancer or does he work for the lord of Chaos? Is this the same arch- demon from BD? Is the old dragon in DD and the creator of dragon knights an eternal? Is he one of the few who did not turn into lizards? Why does the lizard god not look like a dragon? Well, that's more then one question, isn't it?

I think that some archdemon can easily have agendas of their own. And no, Adramahlihk appeared only in Divinity : Original Sin 2. Origin of dragons is probably has to do something with Zorl-Stissa, creator of lizards. Maybe they were some beta version of her vision race in her image.



I was confused with Asmodheus.

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: Soccer] #658527
28/01/20 02:03 PM
28/01/20 02:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,353
Canada
Raze Offline

Larian Studios
Raze  Offline

Larian Studios

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,353
Canada
Originally Posted by Soccer
Well, It's looks like a propaganda written by Rhalic himself.

Yes, it is obviously the schoolbook version, even without Zixzax's correction (which I almost mentioned, but it was late and didn't think it relevant).
The point, however, is that the Lord of Chaos was not presented as one of seven gods.


Originally Posted by Soccer
There no mention that whole purpose of creating mortal races is for them to become gods food after their death.

Um... no, it didn't foreshadow events of a game released 15 years later.
Larian did not map out the lore and plotlines for the series in advance. DD barely got made. Publishers had various requirements, technology and the people working at Larian changed, etc.
I'm not saying there couldn't have been more of an effort to expand on the earlier lore, but being too strict on that would also have consequences for what could be done in future games.


Originally Posted by Soccer
The demons were even in Dragon Commander, which was 8000 (or something) years before D:OS, which means that Lord of Chaos was active.

No, it just means there were demons then.
The reason for setting the game so far in the past was specifically so that it could be a little bit dieselpunk-ish without affecting the plotline or lore around the RPGs.


Originally Posted by Soccer
Only one thing I am absolutely sure of, it's that Epstein didn't kill himself.

evil

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658804
15/02/20 10:35 PM
15/02/20 10:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
If you ask the Doctor why he wants to become a god, he will say that this would solve many of his problems and calls Damian one of the problems ...
So, the Doctor does not obey his God?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658811
16/02/20 05:44 AM
16/02/20 05:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
C
caninelegion Offline
Bugfinder General
caninelegion  Offline
Bugfinder General
C

Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 583
Eastern Washington state, USA
I don't think demons have gods so to speak. They seem to be anarchists.

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658823
16/02/20 10:34 AM
16/02/20 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
But demons serve the Lord of Chaos, don't they?

Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658842
17/02/20 12:27 PM
17/02/20 12:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Soccer Offline
journeyman
Soccer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 99
Ukraine
Originally Posted by darkoms1
If you ask the Doctor why he wants to become a god, he will say that this would solve many of his problems and calls Damian one of the problems ...
So, the Doctor does not obey his God?

Damian is not a God. He is just a semi-god, Overly simplifying, he's another Lucian, but chosen not by the Seven Gods, but the Lord of Chaos, who is a demons God.

Last edited by Soccer; 17/02/20 12:29 PM.
Re: Lord of Chaos [Re: darkoms1] #658857
17/02/20 09:58 PM
17/02/20 09:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
darkoms1 Offline OP
stranger
darkoms1  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 16
Yes, so to some extent Damian is an avatar of the Lord of Chaos and I think the Doctor should show more respect for him

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2