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Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #661852
06/03/20 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Doomlord
I think cool downs in some game are fine, and Im ok with that. With that said however, if its a Dungeons and Dragons game , excluding ( Neverwinter online and DDO ) that should always keep it faithful to the core rules, Like Bg 1 & 2 Neverwinter nights 1 & 2.

Those were faithful as far as I could tell. So if its natural abilities, spells per days what ever it is , keep it true to the PH , DM guide and I think will be ok.

-Doom


Except in the case of a machine gun overheating, i can't find a single case where CDs makes any sense.

PS : DDO, SCL and Neverwinter mmo aren't good games exactly because they felt more like a wow clone than a D&D adaptation...



I've played DDO since 07, I take my breaks, its fun for what it is. Some times you just have to accept things for what they are, enjoy it or move on, But yea your right, If I want a trully d&d feeling game, I try a good old persuasion check on my kids and play some good ole fashion pnp.

My hope is BG3 will give me that depth and immersion only really a imagination can give. IMO

-Doom


Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Legion of Doom - Dungeons and Dragons online - server Orion -
Doom ~ Khazadoom ~ Nexus
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #661880
06/03/20 08:36 AM
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Yes i did. Lets take Dark Souls III for an example, and man,
I love Dark Souls. Played all of them, including Demon Souls.
But what you literally do in pve as a mage/pyro/whatever is
spamming your strongest Spell. In 90% of pve situations there
is no need of changing the Spell.
DS 1 had a good system with very limited loads for spells,
but that Work only because your Enemy Encounter respawn
everytime you rest
Not talking about PvP, since BG is a pve Game.

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #661895
06/03/20 09:01 AM
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"I have no idea what im talking about" -the post.

also
"Reductio ad warcraftum" shameless.

Last edited by Sordak; 06/03/20 09:01 AM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #661949
06/03/20 11:31 AM
06/03/20 11:31 AM
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SorcererVictor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Maldurin
Yes i did. Lets take Dark Souls III for an example, and man,
I love Dark Souls. Played all of them, including Demon Souls.
But what you literally do in pve as a mage/pyro/whatever is
spamming your strongest Spell. In 90% of pve situations there
is no need of changing the Spell..


DS3 doesn't use spell slots. But on DS1/2, you save your soul spears to when it is necessary.

Lets pick the strongest dark magic spell on DS2 as an example. To learn Climax, you need to :
- Find 3 hidden locations
- Join a covenant
- Clear 3 caves
- Kill darklurker, the strongest boss vs dark in the game
- Have a high amount of INT and FHT
- And it takes 4 ATN slots
- Also costs ALL souls to deal considerable damage

If this spell comes to a wow clone, it will be just a spell that everyone learns at lv X, has no stat requirement and scales 100% with the player gear with 20 minute cooldown.


And here is a guy soloing Lantern king on PF:KM



He is using a lot of different spells.

-----------------------------------------------

The problem is that you are seeing a spell as the "best spell" in any situation... A"best spell" should't exist. What should exist is for eg, the best spell vs undead at CQB, the best spell vs flying monsters at long range who aren't resistant to fire, a most resource efficient spell vs trash mobs(...), or the best spell vs mobs "A" in situation "B" under "C" circumstances if you have "D" party members

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662086
06/03/20 05:50 PM
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Waeress Offline
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I just want to add again, in case my previous post was not read.

There were no cooldown on spells in the gameplay demo.

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Waeress] #662181
06/03/20 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Waeress
I just want to add again, in case my previous post was not read.

There were no cooldown on spells in the gameplay demo.


Yep. I just an awsening people who believe that or you spam the same attack or you spam the same rotation and there are no other way.... Even with warlock in nwn2(with warlock reworked of course, the vanilla wlk is trash), i rarely repeat the same invocation more than couple of times... And warlocks on 3.5e was supposed to be a "spam" class

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 06/03/20 08:46 PM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662184
06/03/20 08:50 PM
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You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".

Last edited by Tuco; 06/03/20 08:51 PM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Tuco] #662327
07/03/20 12:03 AM
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SorcererVictor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 07/03/20 12:06 AM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662329
07/03/20 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...


Overwatch

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Cirolle] #662346
07/03/20 01:23 AM
07/03/20 01:23 AM
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SorcererVictor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Cirolle
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...


Overwatch


Not a RPG, Nor a immersiver gameplay experience.

Look to BioWare games. All games before DA:O had no CDs and was amazing. AFter BioWare started to add cooldowns to their game, a huge decline in their games quality. Not that Dragon Age Origins was perfect. Be able to use blood magic in front of templars and nothing happening makes zero sense. VTMB's blood magic can't be shown to kine without a masquarede breach. But the most recent games are the worst. Inquisition has all spells scaling with weapon damage DESPITE all lore on previous games and the fact that one of the first dialog options is that i don't need of a staff to be deadly. They also got rid of blood magic to put necromancy into the game and """"""necromancy""""" is the worst type of necromancy ever. Instead of being the master of life, death and undead, he is just a spiritualist that throw CC on cooldown...

I HATE this RPG's should be about living in a immersive fictional world.

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662387
07/03/20 08:28 AM
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it doesnt even matter, the correlation fallacy that is, because its confirme dthere wont be cooldowns holy shit this entire thread is pointless

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Sordak] #662468
07/03/20 02:57 PM
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SorcererVictor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Sordak
it doesnt even matter, the correlation fallacy that is, because its confirme dthere wont be cooldowns holy shit this entire thread is pointless


Using examples of how cooldowns destroyed other games is not "correlation fallacy". The fact that only RPG gamers accept this BS bugs me. Contra Rogue Corps is being heavily criticized by having it. And forcing you to switch guns in a arbitrary and artificial way...

Last edited by SorcererVictor; 07/03/20 02:58 PM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662470
07/03/20 03:18 PM
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CD is an old boring mecanics included in many RPG since the golden age of MMORPG (because MMORPG was what makes money this Time, that's why their influences are still so presents even in solo games).

Nothing like a role play experience or I guess D&D (and I won't talk about Baldur's Gate 1/2 because nearly no one cares about on them on this "Baldur's Gate" forum)

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/03/20 03:22 PM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662474
07/03/20 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sordak
it doesnt even matter, the correlation fallacy that is, because its confirme dthere wont be cooldowns holy shit this entire thread is pointless


Using examples of how cooldowns destroyed other games is not "correlation fallacy". The fact that only RPG gamers accept this BS bugs me. Contra Rogue Corps is being heavily criticized by having it. And forcing you to switch guns in a arbitrary and artificial way...


I usually don't get involved when I don't care but holy shit man, you need to calm down.

Sordak never mentioned correlation fallacy, so don't talk about that.

SEVERAL people said they agree the cooldows shouldn't be in a D&D game or even said cooldowns aren't in the D&D universe and you kept on droning how it ruined some or another game. We get it, you hate them, that's fine. Stop being so angry at everyone, it's getting old.

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Ugmaro] #662476
07/03/20 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Sordak
it doesnt even matter, the correlation fallacy that is, because its confirme dthere wont be cooldowns holy shit this entire thread is pointless


Using examples of how cooldowns destroyed other games is not "correlation fallacy". The fact that only RPG gamers accept this BS bugs me. Contra Rogue Corps is being heavily criticized by having it. And forcing you to switch guns in a arbitrary and artificial way...


I usually don't get involved when I don't care but holy shit man, you need to calm down.

Sordak never mentioned correlation fallacy, so don't talk about that.

SEVERAL people said they agree the cooldows shouldn't be in a D&D game or even said cooldowns aren't in the D&D universe and you kept on droning how it ruined some or another game. We get it, you hate them, that's fine. Stop being so angry at everyone, it's getting old.


Yep. But DDO Neverwinter mmo and SCL had the """genial""" idea of putting it...

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662487
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Ugmaro


SEVERAL people said they agree the cooldows shouldn't be in a D&D game or even said cooldowns aren't in the D&D universe and you kept on droning how it ruined some or another game. We get it, you hate them, that's fine. Stop being so angry at everyone, it's getting old.


Yep. But DDO Neverwinter mmo and SCL had the """genial""" idea of putting it...


What does that have to do with what I said? At this point I'm wondering if you even read what people say

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: Ugmaro] #662505
07/03/20 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Ugmaro


SEVERAL people said they agree the cooldows shouldn't be in a D&D game or even said cooldowns aren't in the D&D universe and you kept on droning how it ruined some or another game. We get it, you hate them, that's fine. Stop being so angry at everyone, it's getting old.


Yep. But DDO Neverwinter mmo and SCL had the """genial""" idea of putting it...


What does that have to do with what I said? At this point I'm wondering if you even read what people say


You din't even read the SECOND paragraph in other forum. Just assumed that i was only talking about CDs and din't talked about resistances/immunities, lack of sun damage from most vampires in modern games and comparing to how people mock twilight by the same reason and now "at this point i'm wondering if you even read what people say"...

I just pointed that this mechanic regardless that what people agree that a D&D game should be exists in most Larian games, exists on the recent D&D adaptation and a post made me wonder if this mechanic will gonna be in the final game.

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662515
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...


Skyrim (cool downs are desguised as a mana/stamina pool that recharges over time)

Immersive? Yes
Fast? Yes
Engaging? Yes
Interesting with this mechanic? Yes

Last edited by AnonySimon; 07/03/20 06:03 PM.
Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: AnonySimon] #662517
07/03/20 06:06 PM
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SorcererVictor Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AnonySimon
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...


Skyrim (cool downs are desguised as a mana/stamina pool that recharges over time)

Immersive? Yes
Fast? Yes
Engaging? Yes
Interesting with this mechanic? Yes


This is not cooldown. Is just a resource management. BUT skyrim has cooldowns on shouts. I would prefer if was uses per day like high elf mana regen power...

Re: Will be cooldowns? If yes, is insta NEVER buy. [Re: SorcererVictor] #662524
07/03/20 06:31 PM
07/03/20 06:31 PM
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AnonySimon Offline
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Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by AnonySimon
Originally Posted by SorcererVictor
Originally Posted by Tuco
You are tying a lot of ridiculous assumptions to the notion that flawed systems you tried in the past were flawed exclusively BECAUSE of cooldowns.

Not to mention how you're ignoring that a lot of the problems you are listing can and DO appear even in games that make use of different systems.

Like Sordak pointed out, this reads like "I HAVE NO CLUE OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT: The Official Thread".
The entire thing is basically an exercise in practicing the "correlation fallacy".


Mention one. One system that is immersive, fast, engaging, interesting with this mechanic. Just one.

And is not a correlation falacy. You claim that systems with CDs can be good but never mentions a single example and when i show examples you clain to be "correlation fallacy".And Sodark, claims that 4e is a good D&D edition, if he says that this thread is "i have no clue of what i'm talking about", is because is a valid concern. The unique good thing that 4e brough is pathfinder. Probably for him, everyone who hates the fact that 4e is a wow clone has no clue about what is talking too...


Skyrim (cool downs are desguised as a mana/stamina pool that recharges over time)

Immersive? Yes
Fast? Yes
Engaging? Yes
Interesting with this mechanic? Yes


This is not cooldown. Is just a resource management. BUT skyrim has cooldowns on shouts. I would prefer if was uses per day like high elf mana regen power...


Sounds like either a No True Scottsman fallacy or a Moving The Goal Post fallacy to me.

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