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that whole rating system is just a cover up.
remember the first batman movie? under 14 years old you could'n see it in Belgium (wich i ofcours did at my 12th <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> )
in gamingworld, there are alot of "violent" games around there,
like postal2, that's a game MADE by children.

but i was alraedy smashing zombies and scum with an iron wipp in castlevania on the NES since I was 11.

a good parent , knows what kind of games are capable for there children.
but as always. lots of them don't bother. as long as he/she is quit, i'm happy. putting young children in front of there tv-sets, from 8 oclock in the morning till 12oclock. give them some candy bars and then let them see more junk on tv..
that's the real problem these days!

just wanto say there are of cours alot of good parents also <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />
i think we better put a stop on those television programs.


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Thats really easy do to that on TV.
I mean I just wiped off my TV such channels, as Cartoon Network and Fox Kids - this is junk, but it keeps my daughter interested.
So, she is now looking discovery, national geographic and animals planet <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But, this is how I did, I don't vote for prohibiting such channels like Cartoon Network or XXX or whatever. I can decide myself what will I and my kids watch and what not.
Same with games. Let us decide which games to pass to our kids.

All those commissions prohibiting things like games, programs, etc, I see it as violation of my rights to choose.


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All those commissions prohibiting things like games, programs, etc, I see it as violation of my rights to choose!


yes, isn't it great we live in such an open-minded society? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


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Egin:
Same with games. Let us decide which games to pass to our kids.

All those commissions prohibiting things like games, programs, etc, I see it as violation of my rights to choose.


If all parents would make these decisions, are interested and informed, I would agree with you, Egin. But the majority doesn't even know what their kids are playing/watching - for various reasons.
And I gladly sacrifice rights for responsibility.
There is more than one violent game/movie necessary to violate - but I ask myself sometimes why do we adults need this? What kind of example (yes, boring old responsibility again) are we giving our youngsters?

And in my case again: I'm glad about rating, this helps me in my daily job to choose rather quickly which game/video/DVD can I buy and which can I leave out happily.

I see youngsters coming to us and wanting games that are on the index, I see youngsters coming with their totally uninformed grandparents and wanting to bribe them into borrowing unsuitable games/videos/DVD. Age rating helps me - I have a better argument in explaining, why I wouldn't recommend it.

Egin, not all adults are well-informed/responsible/interested - so, age-rating helps.

And it doesn't help the whole leisure industry if terrible incidents happen and the blame is then easily put on this industry - gamers are pressed into the violent corner again (Counterstrike e.g.)
Kiya

I do wish age-rating would be modified after some time though.

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True. But, to get back to Bean's point: parents should in the first place decide what games are suitable for their children, it is their task to raise their children. Rating systems aren't motivating parents to be concerned anymore - it's another excuse for not having to bother... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />


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As long as rating serves informational purpose, yes Kiya, it probably helps uninformed parents determine, what game/movie they are going to buy to their kids.

But, I totally agree with Kejero. It is parents, who raise their children, so they should stay involved, not to pass this to rating systems, teachers etc.
They should care and stay interested in - what is this boy doing every evening in his room?-

PS Kiya, glad to see you again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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Sorry for throwing everyone off topic. I just felt compelled to speak out against this mass media thought. Hope I didn't step on anyones's toes...

And im not saying your a bad parent either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> even though your life is ruled by what is "printed on the box" which is solely your decision.

But doesn't it make "some" of you mad that the general public blames "acts of violence and crime" on video games, music, movies and other forms of media. I mean what the *types in himself nocando <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />* NOCANDO (to express emotion <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />) isn't the rating system supposed to have prevented that? Does it? Im not going to go into politics and how the government is slowing taking away our freedom <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> even the president <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />. Well thats all I have to say on the subject, double sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

My eyes were opened up in highschool government class, triple sorry. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Virgo_Bluefire; 14/06/03 11:38 PM.

This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
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No need to appologize (imho <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) -- We may have went off topic, but it's still a topic - We need more discussions like this! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


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:Virgo
But doesn't it make "some" of you mad that the general public blames "acts of violence and crime" on video games, music, movies and other forms of media


Yes, it makes me mad - it's always easier to point out that someone/something is to blame than recapitulating what one's own part was in this.

Kej/Bean/Egin - I agree with you fully, that parents have the first responsibility - do you know a way to make some of them see this? Can you think up of a solution to motivate some of them to take interest in what their kids are doing/playing/watching?

I don't know, how many years I had to fight in my library until I could buy PC games/RPG modules. They don't have a good rep. - and I saw my role in informing about the variety of these products, to improve their rep. It's really shocking how the youngster/adult world has drifted apart by mass media.

Again, if adults would take over full responsibility = then age rating will become futile, IMO.

On a sidenote: I still wonder why some adults like violent games/videos/DVD... just on a sidenote <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

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o, how tons of adults like Vice City? hmm. I wonder why...



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i(as an adult) like some shooting too once in a while,
hé you have had play them all once <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

but because parents like to play euh..solders o fortune2 with all the blood and gore doesn't mean they allow there children to play them too.
these days i happy too see that ther are alot of parential locks for reducing the violence in games.
but the big part is not the violence
but the education the parents and the envirement give too there children.

a child couldn't be more enthousiastic if his/her parents would be interested in the thing he/she do.
and putting them in front of a television and stuff them with chips. isn't goig to help a lot...

ive seen it with some families!

i played alot on my nintendo when i was young,
and i saw alot of comercialy cartoons like giyajoe and transformers but i also played alot outside exploring the lands of my (virtualy ) Rivelon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

and my parents knew exactely when it was time to stop playing games or when i had to stop watching television


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the Bean:
a child couldn't be more enthousiastic if his/her parents would be interested in the thing he/she do.
and putting them in front of a television and stuff them with chips. isn't goig to help a lot...


Agree fully - but it's not only the parents. A child is exposed to various environmental influences - partly school comrades, TV, and even by watching how adults deal with one another <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> - a lot of bits and pieces add to the puzzle violence and brutalization. It's a tough job - even for engaged parents to strengthen a kid.

To all: Age rating was meant as help... meaning well does not always give the solution "well done". So, please, don't condemn it totally.
Kiya


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u know, when I see a game, I just look atr the game; not the rating. If its good, I'll get it; if its bad, I won't. There is absaloutly NO way that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/riftrunner.gif" alt="" /> will be bad, so it good be rated [Linked Image] for I care, I'll still buy it!



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I also like playing violent games time to time. Why? Killing computer mobs or riding on the streets of Vice City releaves me from daily stress. And I want it to be violent, I want it to be bloody, sometimes very bloody. It depends on the game and on my mood. Sometimes, when I come home after difficult day. I am nervous. It helps a lot to start a game and shoot off some heads. Relaxing.

As for my kids, I choose very thoroughly, what games I give them.
Any shooter IMO is violent, regardless of that does it has any blood or not. Because, killing is involved there, kids don't know what is killing and it shockes them. At least at the beginning.

And I hate hearing my 6 years old daughter saying happily, that she just killed 5 bunnies and one froggie. right? I never give her anything like that.

It is a problem Kiya. How to make parents care about their kids? Damn, allow people to have a baby only if they are caring (make them pass tests or something). This is not gonna happend. Society will say, this is not democracy.

And about rating. Before buying any game I always look what is it. I visit gamespot, look at the review, screenies, reader comments, FAQ, play a demo. All this gives very good picture on the game. Only after that I go and buy it for me or for my kids.



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Egin:
It is a problem Kiya. How to make parents care about their kids? Damn, allow people to have a baby only if they are caring (make them pass tests or something). This is not gonna happend. Society will say, this is not democracy.


Exactly - it is not democratic. And passing a test is no guarantee for someone to do a good job afterwards <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> (driver's license = good drivers? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> ) Therefore parts of the society put up commitees for age rating to deal with age unsuitable stuff. If social behaviour does not function within one little cell (family), the larger cell (state,country etc.) sets up regulations - sad, but true (same for laws, hm? We wouldn't need them if all were responsible).

And adults ARE allowed to get 18+ games, they just have to go through a little more trouble to get it - but the weakest have to be protected, if those in charge are incapable of it, for various reasons. Sad, but true again.

Why are people so eager to cry out loud when they see their rights endangered and sneak away when it comes to responsibility/moral for the group, their family or the community they live in? Yep, responsibility/moral is boring, takes discipline and cuts off a whale of fun - and fun is sooo important - easy fun, fun without going through trouble. Fun at all costs... (Why should I care about others? I want fun!I and I alone. I want to play this game now - and if I don't want to spend my money on it/or age rating interferes: I get warez - gah) - and the leisure industry responds: more violent games... Neverending cycle.

Egin, I am not happy about these regulations, wish, the human society wouldn't need them - well, our sad reality is as it is at the moment <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/puppyeyes.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

PS.: I'm glad you take up your responsibility <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



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Why are people so eager to cry out loud when they see their rights endangered and sneak away when it comes to responsibility/moral for the group, their family or the community they live in? Yep, responsibility/moral is boring, takes discipline and cuts off a whale of fun - and fun is sooo important - easy fun, fun without going through trouble. Fun at all costs... (Why should I care about others? I want fun!I and I alone. I want to play this game now - and if I don't want to spend my money on it/or age rating interferes: I get warez - gah) - and the leisure industry responds: more violent games... Neverending cycle.


Because it is comfortable to them. Blaming others is one thing, taking responsibility is something different, even if it concerns their own children.

Fun. Yes, fun is important. I wanna play this game now with all blood and gore, and I don't want anyone restricting me from buying it. From other hand I don't want to see children playing it. What impact do have violent games on kids?
Maybe there is no noticeable influence now, but maybe that violence will come out later, in 5-10 years?

Violent games will be published as long as there is demand for them. And I can assure you the games are becoming more and more violent as industry is moving forward and games become more and more realistic.
Weird example:
in SOF1 you could shoot off 8 parts of the body, in SOF2 - 18. I may be wrong about numbers.

It may help if there is parental lock/violence control in the game, but again, parents should use it. Do they? I have no idea.

Rating slows down spread of violent games, as publishers are always planning target wider audiences, rating limits this.

Theese are my thoughts. I hate to see rating systems, and I hate to hear that small children are spending hours and hours without parent's care, watching spammy TV programs and playing bloody games. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Kiya, and we can discuss and discuss this endlessly, as, ratings are very general. At what age person can be allowed to see blood? After his psychics, his mind becomes stable? I assume it is somewhere at 18, right? But, people are very different from each other, one is more sensible to stresses, to pressure, so it is 22 or 32 for him. How to handle it then?
I think you will answer, at least rating helps those below 18. And you are right, as there is no answer at the society lvl now, this again should be solved in smaller cells (families).


Last edited by Egin; 16/06/03 08:18 PM.

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good point. people should be mindfull of what they let there kids play. My nephew (for the summer break aI'm staying with my bro's) is talking about how his friend so and so played Vice City and its really fun. my nephew is 13 years old! I was thinking of calling up and talking to this kids parents. very dissapointing in people. like Kiya said
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drivers license=good driver? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />
thats a double <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

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The parents of that boy just didn't bother to look at the cover of the game at the store, or they just don't care about rating.
(Vice City - rating M (mature 17+)).


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wat makes me real sick is those "jackass" shows and every clone made of it...
Don't they realy know that kids are trying to imitate those things they do?

it would'nt bre the first time some kid puts his pants on fire and bare the consequenses. i'm talking about 12 year old!

the ultimate thing tpo do to stay "cool" with your buddies...

that's the problem. that everyting has to be harder , faster , bigger , to stay "cool".

look at the television programs , jerry springer, judge judy (is she human? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />)temptation island, big brother..it's all JUNK!
and those cartoons on cartoon network..euh... what happend to tex avery or bugsbunny?


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You forgot Ozzy Ozbourne show on MTV - weird, sick s**t!
I am sorry, I couldn't find better words to describe this. And if I am not mistaken this show has prime-time on MTV. BTW, the poll was carried out, girls were asked - Who will be the ideal father for your kid. Osbourne had higher rating then Tony Blair.
Where are ratings, where is society with it's laws, restrictions and regulations? How many teens look MTV with that jackass and osbourne show - millions!



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