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addict
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addict
Joined: Nov 2020
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You won't get Jan Jansen, Keldorn, Jolee Bindo, HK-47, Kreia, Sagani, Durance, Grieving Mother and more, if you decide to make each companion romancable. And that's shame, as those are highlights (at least to me) of their respectieve titles. This is actually a really good point and one I hadn't considered. I can't see Larian subscribing to such a thought process though...these forums are full of people who want to f**k Halsin and God knows who else. Sex really does seem a driving force in BG3.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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+1 to BG3 companions having sexuality preferences that match up with their backstory and in-game dialogue barks. Some of these preferences can be more strict (e.g., straight only), where others can be more lenient (e.g., "I've never felt this way about a man before.")
As for Inquisition's "pandering to progressives," I'd actually say it's the opposite. If you take a look at the companions, 2 (1 of each* gender) are bi, 2 (1 of each* gender) are gay, and the remaining 4 are straight. And of those remaining 4, 3 are men. So we see that the biggest group of the companions is straight men, which hmmmm...seems very not-diverse to me!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
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Nothing quite beats Pathfinder Kingmaker in terms of poorly telling option spreads:
- If you're a bisexual female PC you have (8) options.
- If you are a bisexual male PC you have (8) options.
- If you are a heterosexual male PC you have (6) options.
- If you are a homosexual female PC you have (5) options.
- If you are a heterosexual female PC you have (2) options.
- If you are a homosexual male PC you have (1) option - and to pursue it you must force a break-up between said male and his current love interest.
Add to that, most of the women in the game are described in the prose for their beauty, attractiveness or general appeal. The romancable males are almost never appraised for their attractiveness, at all.
(And also, I'm salty because neither Jubi nor Linzi were available as romances, and they were the two I was most interested in, in terms of romance personalities).
So, yeah... I'm completely okay with player-sexual romance options, as long as it's done properly - that is, it's made to still fit in with any back-story elements the character has where appropriate, and that it's not simply conflated with all characters being bisexual. Though this is a topic that has been discussed heavily already in another thread.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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If you're adding romanceable NPCs to fill a spreadsheet then that seems like a problem to me. That's also kind of what I view the impetus for playersexual characters to be. I know a few of the people here haven't played it, but I considered Inquisition to be the most well developed way of adding romanceable characters into a game. None of them were the most interesting romances I've played in a game, but I still wanted future games to take its lead in this regard. Of course I've said my piece on this before.
Herosexual is a great term, but I'm assuming you meant heterosexual.
Anyhow, I'm gay, and I've grown up having the whole "delicate princess needs to be saved by a big strong man" trope in video games thrown into my face since the early 80's.
I can honestly say it never bothered me growing up because in a lot of those situations, there wasn't any roleplay to be had. I was steering a character's adventure. They just happened to be straight, no biggie.
As games evolved and we started seeing narratives written with the player as a focus and getting to make choices, it was a little annoying to have developers shy away from romances that weren't heterosexual.
Ultimately, I just stopped caring because romance in games isn't a big deal to me and I don't need to see my avatar engaged in virtual sexuality.
If romance is there, great, give me an option that suits me. If you're not going to provide an option that suits me, don't force romance on me and leave it open-ended as a "just friends" situation because that's fine too.
What I do NOT enjoy is this new age SJW cancel culture shit where if every gender under the sun doesn't have an option specifically tailored to them in the game, the developers have to eat shit.
Although I'm grateful when it is there, I don't need gay representation in my games. And I certainly do NOT want developers shoehorning in gay/non-binary whatever when they don't fit into a narrative just to appease people.
Larian, in specific, has mostly handled it well. They left romances general enough to appeal to any sexuality without making it feel basic by playing it super safe.
Bioware walks that fine line of pandering to SJWs, but what they have done well is leaving romance options locked specifically by sexual preference.
Although I have issues with Inquisition from a gameplay standpoint, it did romance right.
I liked that Blackwall only dug chicks. I liked that my husband Dorian only dug guys. I liked that Iron Bull swung both ways. And I loved that it was even so specific as to make some characters like Solas only dig female elves.
It felt specific and real, since not everyone enjoys everything. And getting turned down by someone who isn't into you because of your gender is as real as it gets, and it was handled tastefully.
I just wish that developers would stop forcing romance in general.
Lae'zel propositioned me for sex, which was super odd considering that I had never hinted at being even remotely interested.
I viewed that as a result of the poor, basic "approval" system.
I feel as though developers should allow us to designate our preferences during character creation and give us at least a few opportunities to voice those.
That way some of those situations may never come up, or at the very least there could be a dialog about it, and Lae'zel wouldn't assume that I want some chick Gith lovin' just because our ideologies line up.
Herosexual is the term I've seen used when NPC sexuality is determined by whatever your Character is, I liked the sound of it, it doesn't mean Hetero necessarily.
apart from that, I can only agree with you. Fantasy is a pretty trope heavy genre to begin with but I don't think tropes are a bad thing in themselves it only becomes an issue when they become a lazy shorthand for writing characters and scenarios.
And Bioware certainly has the most expectations put on their characters because they've made a big part of their narratives the interplay between their NPCs and between the player and the NPC. Having characters in Inquisition that could reject your advances based on their own personal sexuality (gasp!) was I though a sign of the medium maturing from what I'd grown used to: say what they want to hear, gain love.
Thanks for the response I'm glad I'm getting these I'd never heard herosexual before, but I'm going to start making it an active part of my vocabulary. But yeah, having Blackwall basically be like "I appreciate the attention and I'm flattered, but wrong tree, my friend" was shocking because it was so on-point. That was a fantastic and completely unexpected, realistic reaction to how that situation typically goes. ... I see the point Wormerine made as kind of about this, those companions are memorable because they are written first, then placed into our characters way, hopefully for them to interact with in a meaningful way. Character romance too often in games starts out as an expectation for the player first, and a character interaction second. When a character like Wyll who has a past relationship with a female cambion, and will hit on Lae'zel and Shadowheart, offers to bunk with my male dwarf berserker, it hits an odd note for me. Characters having preference is a good way of putting it.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I enjoy a good romance seen as much as the next guy, and I've been hesitant to critique the one example they've given us because it's seems so 'placeholder', but there's a whole industry of sex games out there, Larian shouldn't be caught with it's pants down here whichever direction they go.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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When a character like Wyll who has a past relationship with a female cambion, and will hit on Lae'zel and Shadowheart, offers to bunk with my male dwarf berserker, it hits an odd note for me. I believe it's called either heteroflexibility or polysexuality. However, compared to our (pretty mundane) world, FR has a whole additional dimension to it - species. Specifically, sentient ones. If he somehow managed it with a cambion, an affair with a male dwarf berserker should be "almost straight".
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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I believe it's called either heteroflexibility or polysexuality. However, compared to our (pretty mundane) world, FR has a whole additional dimension to it - species. Specifically, sentient ones. If he somehow managed it with a cambion, an affair with a male dwarf berserker should be "almost straight". The cambion in question is a succubus, right? Whose whole deal is that they transform into what people find most attractive? And since he refers to that cambion as "she," his relationship with her is basically the equivalent of him falling in love with a human woman. (Assuming of course that she didn't use her succubus-magic to magically seduce him)
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I still believe that my suggestion works the best ... Every character should have Sex prefference, and Racial prefferences ... If your characters fit both > NPC will hit on you ... ( Example: Hey Tav! Lets bang tonight.  ) If your character fit one of them > NPC will not hit on you, but will be pleasantly surprised by your proposal ... ( Example: Hey Tav! Oh you mean ... well, sure! ) If your character fit none of them > NPC will not hit on you, will not be pleasantly surprised, but after a small chat will accept your affection ( Example: Hey Tav! Oh ... you mean ... OH! What the ... i mean, sory but i never ... but ... well, you know ... now when you mention that ... after all why not? ) And it all just matter of sentences they told you in the exact same conversations. In matter of coding everything just stays the same, no movement with appreciation levels for some intimity.  Lets give an example: (And remember its an example ... so if you feel like some character should, or should not have some prefference ... that is irellevant right now. :P ) Wyll > Woman - Human / Tiefling / Elf / Drow / Half-Elf / Githyanki Gale > Woman - Human / Elf / Drow / Half-Elf Astarion > Man / Woman - Human / Tiefling / Elf / Drow / Half-Elf / Githyanki Shadowheart > Man - Human / Elf / Half-Elf Lae'zel > Man / Woman - Githyanki Meaning Halfling Male will be hit by nobody. But can score with Astarion, Shadowheart and Lae'zel. And will surprise Wyll and Gale with his naughty suggestions. Elf Female will be hit by Wyll, Gale and Astarion. But can score with Shadowheart, or Lae'zel aswell. And will surprise nobody ... i mean, everyone like Elves. :P
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 04/03/22 04:14 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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The cambion in question is a succubus, right? Good question. Well, doesn't look like it. From Fandom Wiki: Cambions excelled in luring mortals to the Abyss; the only demons better at it were succubi.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
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The cambion in question is a succubus, right? Good question. Well, doesn't look like it. From Fandom Wiki: Cambions excelled in luring mortals to the Abyss; the only demons better at it were succubi. Hmm. So I guess the question is, which is Mizora? And/or can she be both? From Fandom Wiki about Wyll: He formed a pact with the succubus Mizora From brief googling, I'm getting that "Cambion" was the catch-all term for a half-human and half-fiend creature, but "After the Spellplague...this term shifted to mean the union of a mortal female and a devil." But I wouldn't exactly trust Larian to follow the exact updated lore, so Mizora could certainly be a half-human, half-succubus demon that Larian is calling a "Cambion"..? or is it explicitly stated in game somewhere that she is not part succubus?
Last edited by mrfuji3; 04/03/22 04:32 PM.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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mrfuji3, Oh yes, with Larian at the helm, anything is possible. On one hand, this thread states that they are neither demons nor devils, just creatures from Lower Planes, and besides they are NE. So technically Mizora shouldn't be a succubus, at least from 5e perspective. However, I don't know if it eliminates the possibility for her to be cuarterona succubus or even less, with the majority of her infernal ancestry coming from devils. On the other hand, Raphael also seems to be a shapeshifter. Chances are, it might be the approach "invented" by Larian. Personally, I'm also not convinced that Wyll had any kind of affair with her. Maybe I didn't long rest enough, but Wyll only speaks about her in purely "business" terms, and never mentions anything else.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2021
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That could lead to some funny and perhaps realistic dialogue.
"You don't like men?"
Oh, I like men; I just don't fancy dwarves."
"And here I thought elves stoked your fire."
"Elves are fine, but I chase the womenfolk, long ears or otherwise."
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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mrfuji3, Oh yes, with Larian at the helm, anything is possible. On one hand, this thread states that they are neither demons nor devils, just creatures from Lower Planes, and besides they are NE. So technically Mizora shouldn't be a succubus, at least from 5e perspective. However, I don't know if it eliminates the possibility for her to be cuarterona succubus or even less, with the majority of her infernal ancestry coming from devils. On the other hand, Raphael also seems to be a shapeshifter. Chances are, it might be the approach "invented" by Larian. Personally, I'm also not convinced that Wyll had any kind of affair with her. Maybe I didn't long rest enough, but Wyll only speaks about her in purely "business" terms, and never mentions anything else. Yes. The succubi have been confused for a long time -- being classified as demons but acting like devils. In some editions demons, other devils and, in some sources, operating outside of the blood war. My favorite way to deal with it was clarifying that the demon lord f succubi was once a devil. Of course anything goes with Larian but if Mizora's cambion status was intentional it serves two purposes: 1. Cambions occupy an interesting place outside Hell's hierarchy. Every devil knows their diabolic rank and who they answer to. But cambions don't -- they, like mortals, are free to make deals with one or many devils. They don't have to meet soul quotas, they aren't required to serve in the front lines of the blood war . . . 2. If Mizora is half succubus she may be able to kiss a mortal without draining the life out of someone. Perhaps the price Wyll wasn't willing to pay was a child? Perhaps he didn't like the idea of Mizora raising their child as a fiend?
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