Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Wizard Class Implementation: Discussion & Feedback

No, that's just broken - given everything else I have seen in Act 3 it points to an unfinished system. Bg3 was released in an unfinished state - it's unfortunate but that is where we are right now.

I expect that they will eventually fix this and the many other exploits, cut content, and bugs in the game. In the meantime I wouldn't flex too hard on what is essentially an exploit. Our guild is banning the exploit like we do other exploits- tactician is too easy as it is.

10 Sorc / 2 Wizard also gets sculpt spells.

But you lose a feat I think? I'm only level 11 so still can't try it.

I do want Spell Sniper and War Caster on top of +2 CHA, so I think I'd have to lose spell sniper and EB / increased crit range for 1 or 2 wizard levels.

I only have 14 con on my sorc, but the only time I lose concentration is if I ger paralyzed or knocked prone.

I tried out blink, but going into blink form also drops concentration meh, it would be broken if it didn't.

If you make a half elf or human sorc though you can get 20 AC with 16 dex, I currently only have 18 as a drow. Or 21 AC with the +3 shield, but I'd want to use the +1 DC one.

I think learning from scrolls should be limited to wizard level, not level in general.

*tries to learn spell from scroll
"Wizard level is too low."

But you're not the only one making this mistake, just the arbitrary one I quoted.

I feel like many of you haven't noticed.
Often when you to learn a spell from a scroll on your wizard, it will tell you "wizard level too low."
Not just "level too low." Not "caster level too low." Specifically "WIZARD level too low."

You cannot just take a 1 level dip in wizard and learn all spells. You have to level specifically the wizard class high enough to learn that level spell.
So your one level dip is only you letting learn first level spells. Whoopty doo.

Scroll level is based on char level not wizard level. So yes a 1 wizard / 11 sorc can learn every scroll in the game, a level 4 wizard can't.

Which is a bug, oversight and exploit.

It's like saying wizard are trash because of bug.

Hell, tawern brawler is OP as hell right about now, while most features don’t work for wildshape.

Under tabletop rules, you can't learn all spells by taking a level 1 dip.

Hell, in EA Wizard could learn ALL spells which is just stupid.

A level Wiz 1 / 11 Sorc is wizard level 1. Not wizard level 12. They aren't supposed to be able to learn higher level spells from scrolls.
If you're game is letting you, that is, you guessed it, a bug or accident to be patched. And in the meantime, it would be an exploit you're wrong to use.

I don't think it's a bug. I think it's intended. I recall this being a point of discussion right before full release, with folks suspecting something like this would be the case after reading an article about Larian not wanting people multiclassing to have to wait to get spells like fireball.

Someone mentioned a sorcerer subclass (which isn't in BG3) as having full access to spell lists as an example of why they didn't think it would be unbalanced. And there were comments about being dependent on more than one attribute, of course.

Anyway, this has been the case since the game came out. I thought everyone was already aware. Again, it was even discussed before full release.

This is what was said:

"When multiclassing, the levels of your classes and subclasses that normally have access to spell slots are added together in a weighted formula, and then the overall spellcasting level is used to determine how many and which levels of spell slots you will receive."

It doesn't describe anything close to what we are discussing here. Granted I don't know what that weighted formula is but the idea that you can take a single level of Wizard and learn whatever spells you want and cast them with sorcerer spell slots is frankly laughable. It's pure nonsense.

This is an exploit. The people using it are exploiting the game. This is clearly a bug, in fact it's 3 different bugs/exploits all together.

There is no way in hell that anyone could or would have intended this. This is the worst exploit I have ever seen in this game in 3 years. Anyone using it is basically playing on Story mode.

Larian has to change this. This is completly stupid and a huge downsite of this game!

I'm not weighing in on whether or not it's a good mechanic. I'm just saying that I don't think it's a bug, and that folks predicted this would be the case in threads shortly before full release. It was a big conversation topic.

As to story mode and such, I have no skin in that argument. It doesn't matter to me what mode folks play in or how they build their characters or what they do with barrels. I'm just a simple fella. To me, the rules in the game are the rules in the game. If they change, okay, if not, okay.

I don't see it as breaking anything, but in fairness, I don't care too much for the purity of 5e. I've seen too many edition changes in my lifetime to think any of them are more than a house of cards waiting to fall.

For what it's worth, I think the game is too easy with or without exploits, but that's probably because I spent about 2k hours in early access.

I don't think its a bug either, it seems intended.

Anyway for my second playthrough I'll be installing a whole load of mods including 20 levels and changed XP tiers, so meh I'll do 12 sorc / 2 wizard / 2 Warlock and whatever else it allows cos why not.

Good for you, if you want to make the game easier and that's what you need to do to enjoy yourself I couldn't care less.

I am a multiplayer focused GM for a multiplayer guild so I have to think in terms of fairness for everyone in the session. You don't have that responsibility. Do what you want, nobody cares.

As demonstrated though this is a massive exploit and one that needs to be fixed ASAP. It totally violates core rules of 5E.

Nobody cares about you being a GM. DumbleDorf is talking about his second play so how hard will that be anyway when one knows what to expect and what to do and to not do? How do you know the mods DumbleDorf will use wont make the game more difficult?
I am using mods on my first and probably only playthrough.

Lol 'I am a GM for a single player game with no guilds but optional multiplayer' ... Imagine thinking that somehow matters.

5E is shit and I don't care about it or its pnp rules. Having said that there are 20 levels in pnp, so what does it matter if I try out the 20 levels mod (additional 8 levels only work for multiclassing).

Technically a 12 Sorc / 2 Wizard with sculpt spells would be possible in pnp too.

Let me tell you all about how you can play BG2 with 40 levels each in fighter, mage and thief on a triple class, who really cares when its someone's 100th playthrough?

Would love a mod that makes BG3 into D&D 3.5rd edition or even 2nd.

I prefer 3.5 over 5e, but I think we've been outvoted by a pretty large margin.

You should adopt a dog and then explain it to the dog. Lot's of dogs need good homes.

Wizards being a great dip is a bit of a red herring to a discussion - the larger issue to me is how much Sorcerers got buffed and Wizards... not. Together with flexibility always less important in a CRPG than in tabletop, I think Sorcerer will always be better by a considerable margin.

I still loved the original BG 1 + BG 2 without Sorcerers and where you didn't get any spell picks at level up. All spells had to be learned from scrolls, and it was a great way to make treasure exciting for casters.

Also agreed that the game does not need to be balanced around multiplayer guilds. It's clearly intended to be either played single-player or with friends. It's not an MmoRPG or something like that. If you want to play like that go ahead, but I think Larian could spent their working hours better than to balance for it.

So if it's not played the way you find acceptable then it's not worth addressing issues. Some gatekeeping there but I don't expect that people I provide the courtesy of acknowledging the validity of their playstyles to reciprocate - that would be a bridge too far in the realm of expectations.

As I said, people are welcome to wallow in their own torpescense in single player games, I don't care. The experience me and my players seek is one where we face solid challenges and have to learn to be tactically adroit, have a deep understanding of our kits and capabilities as well as the resources at our disposal. We shun exploits and avoid mods unless a compelling balance case can be made (we have yet to see a true 5e mod, but fingers crossed).

In other words we seek to be challenged and be improved by the experience - which we would argue is the essence of gaming itself - but admittedly that is an opinion and certainly a minority one shared by a select few here (and almost all Dark Souls players.)

From our perspective, people who take the path of exploits are just cheating themselves, and end up being worse players for it. Again, an opinion.

Anyway, I have reached out for confirmation from Larian so hopefully we can get some closure. I have no doubt that once they fix this exploit there will be plenty of mods that open up paths for making the game easier in fun and interesting ways that you can enjoy.