This may have already been discussed here or in the DD1 forums, apologies if it has.

Having just played through Divinity 1 again, I have concerns for Div2.

The items and loot in Div1 were way to randomized and inconsistent.

The Dragon Armor set, for example, is the perfect example. Depending on your luck, the pieces could either be the best in the game, or you could get generated stats that makes you rather want to use a broken leather vest over the dragon chest piece etc.

For a set that is supposed to be the best in the game, it could easily be completely useless and unless you QuickLoad over and over before you pick up a piece of the set, you'll probably be extremely unhappy with the item. Quickloading over and over to get a 5 charmslot piece is annoying.

There was also the holy weapon quest. For a quest that was so hyped throughout the game, the item (dagger, sword or amulet) was pretty much completely useless 99% of the time unless you quickloaded over and over again and re-identified.

The point I am trying to make is PLEASE make the items more consistent to where you are in the game. If the Dragon Set is supposed to be an end-game set, force some stats into the pieces to actually make it an end-game set. I thought it was pretty ridiculous when I added the Heart of the Dragon gem to my DragonChest piece, and it made it way WORSE (5charmslot to 1 charmslot, way less vit bonus, less str bonus, less const bonus and 300armor to 190 armor). That's not right.

Please balance the items. Put unique items in the game with mostly set stats. I don't think using the sword I bought 3 hours into Div 1 that I got from the Blacksmith in Arc for the entire game makes sense. That's what I did, because nothing even remotely better dropped for me for the entire rest of the game, and I did every quest and killed almost every monster.

Anyways, glad Div2 is coming. Looking forward to it.

Cheers.

This issue has come up a few times in various suggestion topics, etc. Given the changes to the equipment system in Beyond Divinity, I don't think a large range of quality with random stats will be an issue in ED.

BTW, you may have noticed this, but if you don't like the upgraded dragon breastplate, you can buy back the original.


Welcome to the forum.

Fair enough. I remember losing interest in BD right from the bat in that starting dungeon, so I am not familiar with the equipment system in that game.

Thanks for the info and welcome.

What bothers me most about BD is that you have a party, i f*cking hate parties.
Except in KotOR but thats only because it's well made.
Another thing which i hate is how the characters went from 2D in Div1 to this uglyyy 3d or whatever it is, bah! I'm sorry to say but it totally ruins the game.
I can't believe how something like this could of happend.

PS: How many characters do you have in your party? At the start it's you and the DK which is already to much imo.

It's always just you & the DK. That's it. Hardly a 'party'.

Which to my mind is unfortunate, as I greatly prefer RPGs to be party based, but to each their own

There's simply more you can do with a group regarding characterisation and personality development - which is the whole point of an RPG.

I like parties as well, but the only thing that's detrimental about party-based gaming is that you tend to balance the party in such a way that you end up trying out a lot of different builds in one game when you can customize your group as you see fit. It's the usual deal of having a warrior-type, a mage-type, a rogue-type, etc. In a single character game, you are more likely to be forced down one development path, leaving other builds for replays.

I like both systems, though, as long as they are implemented well.

I'll go with that.

(And welcome to the forum, BTW )

Hmm, the game suddenly sounds a little more attractive..
I guess i'm just one of those persons who likes to focus on 1 character, also only having 1 character makes you/him feel alot more special. I also like making a pure and powerfull character, that doesn't mean in Div1 using scorpion traps because i din't.

Like i said the only game i can recall where i din't bother having a party was Knights of the Old Republic which i recommend to every RPG lover.

How do you feel about how the player characters suddenly looked in BD compared to Div1?

Freaker...

Honestly, I didn't really like BD as a game. I felt the skills system was an over-complicated mess and there were just too many things that annoyed, like your sudden declaration of war on an entire neutral species because you tried to move and a single fast moving critter zipped under your mouse pointer. There are huge numbers of critters and that could happen a lot without your ever wanting it to. The major problem with 'attack' and 'move' both being the same command.

I did finish BD, then I put it on my shelf and I don't think I'll ever play it again. DD I know I WILL replay.

With DD, there's two things I never do: use scorpion traps and use a weapon with freeze on it. Both make the game vastly too easy, IMO. Once I saw them in action it was a case of 'never again'.

I like playing games to be challenged

Yeah it's probally better to wait for Div2, i just know i won't like BD.
And actually i asked your opinion on the appearance (how the player character looks) in comparison to Div1.

With Divine Divinity being a 2D game, there needed to be a new set of animations hand drawn for each unique piece of equipment and for each character type. Practically, that meant that all items in a particular equipment class (ie light armour or large shields) looked the same when equipped on the character. The set of drawings for each type of animation (at various angles) take time to create and consume a lot of disk space. Beyond Divinity dropped to 2 CDs largely due to having 3D characters, which also allowed more and a greater variety of equipment types (though some people still prefer the handed-drawn look of 2D). 3D also allow for much more customizable characters, more variety in attack styles, etc.

I thought the actual character look was fine (except maybe for the feet), though not as refined as DD. After the very beginning of the game, though, I barely paid any attention to how the characters looked.
ED is using better graphics and 3D models, so there is much less of a compromise from the 'hand drawn' look to get the benefits of 3D.


I started off with 2 warriors in BD, and switched my hero to an archer full time (crossbow) towards the end of act 1 (when arrows were more plentiful, and there were less skeletons around, who were better dealt with by blunt melee weapons). Before that my hero used a bow occasionally, for the tougher fights.
Most of the time I had both characters selected and directed them to attack as one. My archer was set to aggressive, to automatically attack opponents within range (which acted as a bit of an early warning system, indicating the direction opponents were coming from).

I didn't have any problems, but playing again I would have the DK be the archer, and use a bow. Bows are based more on agility, so that stat could be boosted more than strength (the DK's armour class improves with his level, so unlike the hero he would not need as much strength to equip armour). Crossbows tend to do more damage (though late in the game I started finding better bows, and switched), but are a little slower and based more on strength.


There is a conformation in act 1 before turning hostile on friendly creatures. In later acts you can switch to peace mode when moving around towns, etc. Elsewhere, if you click and hold the mouse button down to direct your characters you are much less likely to accidentally attack something than if you repeatedly click on the ground to move them.

The skill system was a little more complicated than it needed to be in some cases, but it was also very customizable. I made some comparisons to DD in the topic Was this a good game?.

:Div2: has a new random item generator that allows us to handcraft certain items (such as set items). There's quite a bit more to the item system than we've announced already, but I'll leave that for another day. I'm not supposed to mention it yet, but since I've seen a journalist somewhere write about the battle tower (don't ask me where he got his info), it has something to do with the battle tower

Lar

Good news. Thank you for the info.

He got it from the same place where I got that information from

Yes, I discovered that recently - Well, we're not talking about it yet

I was thinking of putting it on my website Some nice info on that tower there.

Well, what would you offer me if I'd tell ya?

Err... more cookies?

No thank you, I had my share for today

as long as they are implemented well.

For me this generally means turn-based or wait mode. In real-time you get a dumb party AI.
Well almost always, & no little connection to system specifications.

In real time I dislike summons & escort missions for the same reason.(Worse, because usually no user settings).

BTW, how finalized is this as real time?

I think the real-time aspect of combat is fairly fundamental to the design, so it would be unlikely to change dramatically. However, there is going to be the ability to pause the game, and some kind of 'bullet time' like function (Lar mentions this in the topic News from the front and a follow-up post, but there have not been a lot of details on the combat system released yet).


Welcome to the forum.

Interested in trying out Divinity 2: Ego Draconis?
Very unlikely to change if they have a playable form of the engine. Just pointing out the potential flaws of real time.
'Tales of the World (psp) & 'Dungeon Siege' (pc, http://www.gaspowered.com/ds1/content.php?loc=requirements ) were good for me, in terms of controlling the party. Dungeon Siege 2 (pc, http://www.gaspowered.com/ds2/minspec.php), Neverwinter Nights 1&2, Summoner 1 & 2, Persona 3, Ephemeral Phantasia, Dragon Quest VIII (monster arena), .hack//:infection, PSU: Ambition of the Illuminus for PS2, the party AI controls caused far more trouble. (in spite of better hardware requirements ). Often other party members will execute the current command at most, & then return to AI based incompetence. Manual control FTW.

I do agree with the original poster, for loot balancing. Just posting here, because topic mentioned party's.

Nevererwinter 1 &2 are PC (poor with mods), others are PS2 unless stated otherwise.

The original Neverwinter Nights was never a party-based game, and it was fan-tas-tic. One of the best RPG's ever, IMHO. NWN2, however, was a let-down. Dungeon Siege was ok, but in that game, the annoying thing was just that the party AI was so good. If you played it right, at some point your player character didn't need to do anything anymore except run somewhere and let his/her party do its job. That was boring. And to be honest, it wasn't really a sign that it was good, it was just that that game was so simple that there was never really any other choice. If you got a mage, it was always the same spell, got a healer, always the same spell, and everyone always had more than enough potions (whether it was mana or health) from autoloot to keep going forever. It was just dull. In fact, in the sequel they tried their best to avoid just that, because it had been the biggest complaint from their fanbase.

If you think Dungeon Siege was a good Party-based game and the NWN's aren't, then you just have to realize that you don't like party-based games. in Dungeon Siege, the party was a non-issue. It's only in games where parties start to matter, like the Baldur's Gate series and NWN2, that you can really enjoy them. (even though I didn't like NWN2 that much, but that was not because of the party, I loved that aspect of it)

PS:T is the greatest of all party-based CRPGs. And arguably the best CRPG full stop.

Arguably. It is up there. Personally I favor Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn.

I'm not an all-round RPG-fan, though. Games like Diablo and Titan Quest lie in my closet collecting dust. Not much RPG in them I fear, and if it's not RPG, it has to be 3rd person or I can never enjoy it. Even my RPG's I mostly love in third person. Gothic II, anyone?

Yes, Gothic 2 is a good game.


I just wanted to post a short remark about loot in the game :

I think it would be a good idea to make those items "lootable", which the enemies actually bear.

I also think it would be a good idea to let enemies have only items for looting which are reasonable for them to carry.

An Orc with a beautiful flower would be ... odd. But it could also be used as a kind of teasing towards the players who cling too much on clichés in terms of loot.

hey, the beautiful flower would be great... like, you kill an orc, and he drops a rose and a love note to Zahira, you ask around town about Zahira, find her living in some swamp, look for the pigface, and deliver the note (of course lying to her about the circumstances of the orc's death)... and it just so happens the letter told her about the location of... (continue quest series).

But yeah, I don't want to see every clothing item of every foe fall when you kill him, like in TES, but it would definitely be cool if the loot foes dropped could be mostly usable stuff (like currency or crafting materials), and the 'bosses' or the more difficult foes drop their own special armor, or weapon. It's kind of annoying when you're playing this game, and you see an enemy and say "wow, I wish I could get that weapon", turns out it's only for such-and-such foe. No killing an ice mage and looting a fiery sword of Axe Mastery! Oh, Guild Wars.

When characters not under direct control go to a door to draw my attention to enemies behind it, & get hit by a trap in front of it (NWN 2). Even the tiefling thief. This is ok, but a party that fights effectively, & only splits up if you want them to, is bad?
I like some party based games. What I don't like is bad controls. With most AI controlled characters fighting like morons (although disarming traps can also suffer - not just combat), the quality of the few that don't is probably enhanced in comparison. Summoner 1 has an optional fight with golems. Not much room to manoeuvre, but at their speed 1 survivor? Who ever you aren't controlling doesn't even try to hit from range/ behind.

I've never found it a problem, using commands and common sense. the pathfinding of party members in NWN 2 is something that always bothered me, and there are obvious interaction bugs that still haven't been taken care of, but it's still infinitely better than dungeon siege, why? Because the things causing all those problems are the things dungeon siege doesn't have... the indoor questing and pathfinding, the traps, the interaction between party members... In fact, nothing about NWN's party system really bugged me at all, it was mostly the graphics, colors, a few bugs and animations that annoyed me.

I have to say, I don't mind taking a few more hits due to bad AI and I don't mind having my party members walk into a trap or two, if it's a trade off for an infinitely more interesting and profound gaming experience.

If you want a party based game where your party members' AI is the best, play Demon Stone. You'll usually be the weaker link in your party, whichever one you're playing. It doesn't make the game more fun... in fact, it makes it less fun.

But don't put Dungeon Siege in the same league as NWN. It would be an affront to RPG's.