Does anyone else feel like there should be some mandatory battles within the town of Cyseal?

Prior to reaching the Cyseal we have the introductory crab battle, an optional guard battle at the bridge, and lastly an orc battle at the beach before the town gates. Of course, everyone has the option of picking fights within the town itself (I suspect many players won't, though) and beyond Cyseal there's a lot of opportunity for combat.

Now, I love the non-combat questing as much as the next RPG fan. But there is a real lack of combat/action between entering the city gates and getting a solid lead on the murder + completing your tour of Homestead.. particularly for characters trying to go the good / lawful route.

In fact, a friend emailed me today with this message:

"..WHEN WILL THERE BE ANY ACTION. I am investigating a murder and there is no end in sight…. I am ready to slay orcs or something… very sick of playing Columbo.."

..and that is not the first friend I've heard yearning for a fight during the murder investigation. Let's face it.. we all like "Divinity - Original Sin" for two reasons: 1) We like RPGs, and 2) we like squad-style, turn-based, tactical combat. The fun-factor drops when one of those elements goes missing for long periods of time.

I think the period of time spent in Cyseal.. ..could really benefit from a battle or two. That's it.. just something to break up the act of running back and forth between locations and NPCs to progress the story. Maybe a bar fight, or assassins attacking the party inside the town at some point, a band of thugs that need to be dealt with, orcs that have snuck into the town, whatever.. just something. Don't alter the time spent inside the town to a total combat-fest, just maybe pepper it with a mandatory fight or two to help with the pacing.

Just my two cents.

You can walk right out of a gate at any time. Picking up the companions takes a minute at most.

As Stabbey said, there is nothing to stop you from leaving town before you have a quest related reason to do so, though there could certainly be a little more combat earlier in the game, and Cyseal does feel a little overwhelming when you first get there (there will be additional map markers added and guidance in the quest log, etc, when certain locations are mentioned).

There may be a tutorial area added before getting to the beach, which could add a bit of combat. Maybe Cyseal needs a dungeon hidden under a statue...

Yes, I'm aware that's an option, but in my opinion it's a poor solution. You're in the town to investigate a murder, and for many players that won't include randomly galavanting across the countryside in search of adventure. At least not until the investigation has pushed them beyond the city gates.

Also, much of the fighting that takes place outside the city is tied to quests picked up within the town itself.

In the end, the game encourages people to spend some time within the town before moving back outside of it. And since Divnity advertises itself as an "RPG with tactical turn based combat" it wouldn't hurt to show both sides of that coin during the lengthy time spent in Cyseal.. especially that early in the game when making the right impression is important, both to the people playing and the people watching "let's play" videos because they're trying to decide whether or not to purchase the game. In the case of the latter, I don't think a short crab battle, a three-orc beach battle, and then an hour+ of courier activity in a town with loads of dialogue is going to hook as many people as it could if the pacing were handled a little better.

Do you have a specific reason why you don't want to see a mandatory battle (or two) taking place inside Cyseal, provided it's written in in a way that makes sense?

I think when you go into that basement they could do something...? Maybe even something stupid like giant rats or some crap just to throw in a fight. Or some ghosts in the graveyard? Or maybe an assassin sent by the killer to stop you?

Just some ideas!

It seems like a solution to a non-existent problem. The game already lets you follow the main quest or not at your leisure. If you get bored, feel free to wander off. Nothing's stopping you but you.

You must talk to Aureus as part of the main quest, and he offers three quest hooks that lead you to combat (granted two are higher level than you can handle). Following the main quest more, you're interrupted by a Fab Five member, who offers you another quest that sends you to combat (although that's even worse for a new guy).

And that's why the option of "following the main quest or not at your leisure" is not as cut and dry a solution as you're making it out to be.

First, just because someone wants to follow the main quest line doesn't automatically mean they're excited about the prospect of not seeing any combat for an hour or three. It shouldn't be a one-or-the-other consequence. A player should be able to play the main quest line and also enjoy combat (fed at a reasonable pace) while doing it. In other words, you shouldn't have to abandon the story and run out of town to enjoy some turn-based tactics.

Second, our characters are barely level 2 when they reach Cyseal, but they can reach level 3 (through questing) by the time the main plot has advanced to the point where it sends them out of town. Meanwhile, the opponents waiting outside of Cyseal start at level 3 (or higher, depending on the gate you choose). The henchman you can pick up in Cyseal are level 3, and unless you're just randomly exploring the town (or know where they are through prior playthroughs), you probably won't meet both of them until you've spent a fair amount of time questing in Cyseal.

In short, despite the option to run off in any random direction at any point, the aim seems to be to get the player to level 3 before they leave Cyseal. That requires spending time in town, time that is boring at least some players who would probably appreciate a combat encounter or two peppered into Cyseal to break up both the dialogue and repetitive running back and forth between NPCs to advance the plot - two components that are going to get less enjoyable with each new playthrough, by the way.

NO

The game in towns feels exactly like it was in Divine Divinity and I want it to stay that way.


What the goddamn FUCKING point of that? A fight for the sake of fight? For no damn apparent reason or blatantly made up reason? If you want DOS to be another mediocre RPG, that features cliche crap here and there, then I think you should quit right now, while it is not too late.

I think you're overreacting, and by more than a little. If the developers had plugged a battle somewhere into Cyseal before ever handing us the game to test.. another orc attack (makes sense), or assassins (you were warned when you arrived that you were being hunted), undead breaking through one of the gates (makes sense).. you probably wouldn't have thought anything of it. I doubt you'd be on here ranting that it ruins the entire game or Cyseal experience.

If you want to relive the Divine Divinity experience, then go play that game. Divinity - Original Sin is supposed to be its own thing.

I definitely understand how it might be more lively if there was combat in town, and I do think there is probably going to be quite a bit of boredom for those on repeat playthroughs without combat for many players, as even I became rather tired of waltzing around town myself after a while.

However, my problem is not -necessarily- that there is no combat in town, but that running around town takes more time than is... interesting, I suppose. My suggestion was just another gate in the marketplace in the center of town with one at every major exit as well.

While I do think there can be a place for starting combat in town, I think it might also feel a little forced with how things are currently. Between the town guard and Arhu's machines, there wouldn't be a nice and smooth place to put some combat in where it wouldn't become overcrowded or feel artificial (except perhaps if you had a fight in esmeralda's basement or something, perhaps? Not sure what you would fight though. If undead got in that would be a major issue for the whole town's safety).


In general, I think it's a bit of a tricky situation. I think it's probably a pretty decent compromise though if we can mitigate runaround though with those waypoints I suggested.

I don't know honestly. If combat can be slipped in nicely I would appreciate it myself. If it just doesn't fit well though, I can also understand that decision.

Relax, Kein. He's talking about something similar to the tavern fight in Baldur's Gate II. I don't see why there has to be such a strict division between Cyseal/non-combat and non-Cyseal/combat, or what this even has to do with being a 'true RPG'.

The problem here is that it's a turn-based game, which means you can't just put trivial encounters everywhere without it becoming annoying. I think if one or more town fights get added, which is a good idea in itself, there needs to be a logical reaosn for them to exist.

The fact that there is no fight in Cyseal give it a feeling of haven, a "security" that you don't have outside.

But ... There is also a murderer ... Somewhere, with nothing making it really credible that one is a murderer. You just discover things and look at the peoples with a different eye.

A wolf among sheep ... Or wolves among sheep... Or sheep among wolves... Or sheep among sheep ? Or is it a dog ? Why not a cat ? And my allergy ?

Then you go outside, you're not "safe" anymore but you know clearly that something is wrong. Weapons unsheathed you go hunting, looking at where you walk so you don't fall on a trap... Trying to take the initiative... You know that there is enemies and you're ready to fight with them...

That's the point of giving a "haven" feeling at Cyseal. The atmosphere is different and you don't know if peoples are dangerous or not, you must try to found that out ... And the more you discover ... (the more you should discover that you're in deep trouble and that someone, something, some try to get you before you get it ... Or maybe you're walking on the palm of it's hand... You can't say, you must try to discover...)

Outside everything or mostly everything try to kill you and that give a bit a security's feeling by itself.

Most people will stay in the city if there are still stuff to do, experience to grab, etc... before chasing the world. You want to be as ready as possible before going to the wildness. It's the Stanley Parable : we do react to some reflexes.

Even if I can understand that you want that game to be different, the thing is, most people will get *a little* bored in this 3hours tunnel of dialog.

They are ways to make a city more alive, take Baldur's Gate 2 for exemple...

But still, I had fun (the first time at last)

Could be awesome... Maybe under a well.. It could lead to mardaneu... Uhm. Not!

It's just me or the quest with evelyn reminds to the old quest in aleroth (divine divinity, magic mirror involved, two healing gems...)?

Oh I'm so romantic sometimes, my heart simply melts down...

Let's not forget that combat opportunities exist within Cyseal, so it's not like the notion should be inconceivable to anyone.

- You can always choose to fight with the guards if you get caught performing criminal activity, but not everyone wants to roleplay that way.

- You can always choose to fight the elder elf, but not everyone wants to resolve the quest in that manner.

- You can always fight the ghost in the graveyard, but that requires failing his test (and currently the combat trigger doesn't appear to be functioning as the journal states a battle was fought, yet he vanishes without ever attacking).

So, while there are combat opportunities within the town for people who choose to handle every NPC encounter with force (or incompetence), the problem is there are no combat opportunities within the town for players who respond to the NPC more passively. However, just because someone doesn't lash out at the townsfolk doesn't mean they're not interested in "tactical turn-based combat".. a mechanic which is half of Divinity - Original Sin's equation and part of the reason why we're all playing it. Nobody should be saying "combat? ewwww..."

I wouldn't want fights in the city that don't make sense, nor do I want fights in the city just for the sake of having fights. I would, however, enjoy a fight or two within the city (besides the ones mentioned above which are aimed at a particular playstyle that I don't share) for the sole purpose of breaking up a very substantial patch of dialogue and errand running. At that point it ceases being "a fight for the sake of having fights" and instead serves an important pacing purpose. I also trust that the developers can add a battle or town in ways that makes perfect sense, without it sticking out like a sore thumb.

I couldn't agree more with the original poster. I do like to follow quests to completion but unless you've memorized the quest already, it is going to take you some time to work through (re: Murder). I got fatigued with the wandering and investigation without anything more than conversations happening.

Really - I don't have the kind of game time some folks have - I don't want to sit down to a game and play two hours without an encounter. Yes I could go outside and randomly stumble into fights - but at level 2 you aren't exactly slaughtering everything (well maybe mages do).

If I wanted to talk I'd interact with my family If I wanted to read - I'd grab one of the hundreds of classics or amazing works I'll ultimately never get through in my short life. This isn't to say there is a lot of text (there patently isn't) but a little action really would help pull things along.

I'm not talking about there being *always* action in town - but maybe there could be some cut purses about on occasion or a confrontation over evidence in the case - or maybe someone hires some thugs to come after you because you are getting too 'close' to pinning crime(s) on them? It doesn't have to be a lot - just a little level-appropriate tussle or three.

I think Gyson's posts reflect my sentiments nearly exactly.

I don't think there needs to be any additional content added to the town. Here's why:
There's plenty to do inside and out of Cyseal without it. Adding it at this stage could make it seem forced. This is the first town we have gotten to see. If they add a battle or two to Cyseal then they will have to add that many to every town in an attempt to keep it balanced. So say there are 4 major towns you are now asking for anywhere from 4 to 8 additional battles to take place. The reason I say this is if you add it to Cyseal and not to others then the comments will be "Why only in Cyseal? Why aren't there battles in [insert city name here]?"
Also, stating that completing the quests by fighting isn't your playstyle so they should add combat so it can be your playstyle is kind of off to me. Because what about those who want to not have to worry about random battle XYZ happening in town when all they want is to walk to the market and buy a heal potion? That additional content you want may not be THEIR playstyle and now you have forced it on them.
If the added battles are (as suggested) under a statue, or well, or somewhere not implicitly tied to the main quests (it's own area to explore and gain quests) is the best option.

I have to disagree that because town A has combat town B requires it implicitly. They combat should be added to enhance the flow/pacing and be woven into the story/quests.

Honestly though - if I have, for example, five major towns to visit and they each have long involved questslines which have utterly no action involved I'll personally fall asleep in my chair. Sure, this is *me* - but I suspect I'm far from alone.

Also - your point about playstyle makes little sense to me. Are you saying that the folks who want to be passive shouldn't have combat forced upon them? Ok.. that would be a strange stance to take considering this is billed as a tactical turn-based combat RPG. Additionally there could very easily be non-violent outcomes to some confrontations.

All of this is pure opinion of course - but hours of playing Columbo without a single scuffle is utterly snooze-worthy to me and thus I agree completely with the original post and subsequent supporting posts which call for suitable and story-driven moments of action to occur after the 1st orc battle and before my head hits the keyboard hours later.

First, we don't know that there aren't already fights taking place in other towns. For are we know, there are (which, by your reasoning, means Cyseal needs some too).

Second, I don't think anyone will be asking "Why only in Cyseal? Why aren't there battles in [insert city name here]?". The idea should not be to make every town a carbon copy of every other town. The idea is to improve pacing and break up the monotony of the current setup in Cyseal.

Finally, I don't understand these "feels forced" comments. This game is still in development, meaning changes can and will happen. The game we're playing now is going to look fairly different from the final release.. should every change be met with "feels forced" responses?

And what is with this lack of confidence many of you seem to have in the development team? I ask that because to imply it would "feel forced" is to imply the developers couldn't possibly add in a combat encounter in a way that doesn't feel forced. I guess I have a little more faith in them than that, seeing as they've done a pretty great job with the rest of the game we've seen so far.



We're not talking about random battles happening as you move around town, with random chances of them occurring at random times. We're talking about specific encounters that are woven into the story. Example: a second orc raid that breaches the city defenses at a specific gate between two specific points in the progression of the main plot. Or a one-time bar fight that is triggered by speaking with a specific NPC in the tavern. That sort of thing.

Lastly, there's a big difference between wanting a combat scenario added to improve the pacing and not wanting to be intentionally aggressive with the guards or resolving quest steps through violence when it doesn't match your role-playing style. There are currently combat opportunities within the town of Cyseal (further nullifying your original concern about "why only Cyseal") and around it, but you have to be either incompetent and/or overly aggressive to trigger them, or suffer from some form of ADD and go wandering out of town before your characters are ready. I'm looking for combat options woven nicely into the story for players who are neither.

My main point on the various towns all needing combat isn't what I want or think should happen. Just saying that others will say that is what should happen if one town gets it. I say this because people will find any and every thing to complain about. As I stated the only additional battles I think are good ideas are those not tied to the above area of Cyseal.

We all have our different playstyles and I don't mind the way it is. But yeah I'm sure some other people feel the same.

What I meant was that Gyson said it wasn't his playstyle to fight random people in quests where there were other ways to play it. But wanted battles in the town that couldn't be avoided (at least in my view that was the case. If they had a non-violent method then fine). He wanted things added to enhance his playstyle, which could impede someone else's if done in an unavoidable way. Again add combat in a different area of Cyseal (digging in the grave yard and finding a dungeon, under a well, or statue.)

I just don't want combat being added to Cyseal if it is topside and could possibly interfere in just running from Point A to Point B to do something either quest related or not. Add it in it's own area that is accessed a certain way then I'm all for it.

Response to Gyson: It could very well be in other towns. But then by you stating it doesn't have to be carbon copy then why would Cyseal need it if another town has it? (Realize I'm playing Devil's Advocate here).

The "feels forced" comments are mainly saying "If it's not done right then there's an issue." We want it to be the best game it can be and don't want any area lacking. I have all the faith in the world in Larian as they got me to play Dragon Commander (I dislike RTS games) and I enjoyed it.

As I stated originally it's not MY "why only Cyseal" it's that others may say such things. You are asking "why not in Cyseal" so it's only logical for some to think that if there is something going on in Cyseal then why not in others.

ALSO please don't take any personal offense by any of my points or opinions. I'm merely offering a counterpoint to your argument. I don't think anything is utterly wrong with your points as you are one of the few people I have been in threads with who seems to make valid point/counterpoint. But that by adding one thing for the better enjoyment of your game you may be affecting that of another. While your ideas do seem to be grounded others may not and thus my input.

I actually wouldn't mind something A LITTLE more. I'm not in favor of random encounters for the sake of encounters but, for example, when going into random basements I actually anticipated something: rats, skeletons (there is after all an undead infestation going on), some pissed off villager who wants to pick a fight with an intruder. Something. Instead I got loot opportunities in an otherwise empty area. Not bad considering it meant $$$ but I will admit feeling slight disappointment. Again, I don't think some drawn out battle is necessary but I would welcome some interesting, APPROPRIATE encounters in the towns.

One thing that kicks this whole opinion off for me is that it's right after your first 'battle' (igonring the crabs). Then it's literally hours of exploring/tasks/investigations without another taste of combat or really any XP to speak of. I just end up a big thief stealing left right and center and checking all the containers I can (I guess I am OCD in that way) and eventually I feel let down because the Orc fight was engaging (but brief) and then there's no combat to be had without being basically evil or wandering off for a rather long time.

I think the *time* part is the key here. If I had been playing this game for a long time and had levelled up and geared up some and was the verteran of some nifty battles I might not feel as sedated by a stretch of civil life. Additionally - if this was farther intot the game I'd likely have other outstanding quests that might be more combat oriented etc. As it stands I have a quest log full of detective work and counseling.

It just feels to soon in to the game to lay completely off all action.

I really agree with this comment in particular. Prior to reaching the city we have a very simple/basic crab battle. Beyond that is the opportunity to fight the two guards at the bridge, but most characters adopting a reasonable stance will just opt for a friendly escort to Cyseal since they're heading there to see the wizard anyway. The second fight is the orc battle, which is the first really interesting action that happens.

And then that's it. The next few hours are dialogue and the equivalent of fetch quests. And while I don't mind that, it's too soon and too long. I just feel a fight somewhere in the middle of the time initially spent in Cyseal would break up the monotony nicely.


So, I suggested an unavoidable fight because there are optional fights in Cyseal, but you're only going to run into them if you fail to solve the ghost's tests (I don't), or getting caught stealing and picking fights with guards (I don't), or making the extreme choice of attacking the elder elf (I don't, and he also hits for 1 hit point of damage, so I can hardly call this a battle).

There is a pattern emerging here: optional combat for the incompetent and/or overly aggressive. For everyone else there isn't, and what I don't want is more optional battles added along the same theme. I say "mandatory" battles because a mandatory battle means good/lawful characters can't miss them. However, they can certainly be optional if (for a change) the option was presented in a way where taking the good/lawful route resulted in combat instead of (yet again) more non-combat. Just because I'm trying to play a good/lawful character doesn't mean I'm not interested in turn-based tactical combat.

Sure, I could leave Cyseal and chase down the quests given to me by Aureus, but (as mentioned before) for a long time in Cyseal our characters are only level 2 (and not even a full party). What we need are one or two level 2 or 3 encounters that don't require players to exit Cyseal's gates.

Well like I said, I could have interpreted what you said wrong. In another post you said you would want another orc battle (assuming you mean by the gate that has all the dead orcs) which could make sense as there are orcs off that way. But you also said a bar fight. Now if you are playing a GOOD/LAWFUL character as you claim, then the bar fight shouldn't happen as you would talk your way out of it as a good guy instead of choosing to fight. Another option for you could also be at night there might be shady characters around that you could stop. That holds more in line with a good/lawful event than fighting someone in a bar.

Yeah, that's the point, so how about you let them do the game and settle down with absolutely ridiculous [indirect] demands? There is a difference between feedback and "I don't like this so unless you change it [...]".

I have to agree that the pacing at the start is kind of strange. If you want the game to hook people you need to have excitement. I also don't mind the long drawn out areas of dialogue and questing without battle. I just think that it is too soon to the start of the game. Now that I have played many hours and know what is going to happen I don't mind so much but that first play through was getting a bit boring for me and a coop friend. We were both ready to fight something after spending HOURS in town doing nothing but talking.

Something to break up the pacing a little would be awesome. I can really see some people not playing the game for long. The story has not really "hooked" you by that point in the game and you don't get to really experience any of the cool combat mechanics by the time you reach town. I think either throwing a battle or two in before town or during town is necessary just to be sure people don't get bored.

We ALL want this game to be successful and to do that you need to sell the game to a wide audience not just a niche crowd. Many causal gamers will either play some at a friends house or watch the Lets Play type videos and be totally turned off by the slow pace to start the game and never give it a chance. The amazing combat and story will never be seen.

Obviously we don't want the battles just thrown in. But there are MANY opportunities for a battle or two to be snuck in.

Like others have stated there could be another small orc raid that breaches the gate and you are asked to help.

When you go in the basement "something" could happen.

When you go into Evelyn's house an assassin and/or group of hired thugs could attack you for getting too close. Obviously she has some followers.....

You could do some training fights at your homestead to learn the different effects that terrain/elemental things can have on a fight.

When you start snooping around the graveyard a zombie/ghost could attack you for disturbing the graves?

There could be a bar brawl with some drunken thugs.

Maybe some human pirates raid the docks?

The fish theif could decide him and his hungry buddies done like you and attack.

There are many many many chances for a fight that would not feel forced or ruin the RPG element of the game. As long as there is an explanation for the fight it could be worked in. Also most of those could be considered optional and/or could be avoided via dialogue options to intimidate or reason. Would add a lot more of the dialogue stuff that is being touted as new for the genre.

So many of these scenarios could show off the awesome battle system as well as be a great opportunity to introduce the dialogue system and show what it is about and how it could really affect gameplay and character advancement!!

Er.. two things:

1) I don't think anyone said anything remotely along the lines of "I don't like this so unless you change it [...]". You're placing words in our mouths and then attacking a statement we didn't actually say (or even imply).

2) If you're going to continue to participate in this discussion, I think you should probably lay off the profanity (from your earlier post where you dropped the F-bomb) in addition to reigning in your hostility. Neither is adding anything useful to this conversation, only noise.

This thread *is* feedback. Just because you don't like or agree with the feedback you're hearing doesn't mean it suddenly becomes classified as "ridiculous demands". To be perfectly honest, the only one acting preposterous thus far in this thread is you.

Please settle down.

Just because you don't like how some things implemented in the game doesn't mean it they are [implemented] bad.

Remember guys, don't feed the troll!

I've just read through this thread and I must say I agree quite a bit with Gyson. If you come to Cyseal as a Good/Lawful character you are really denied most chances at some excitement. While I think it is indeed fine with story segments I for one would welcome a fight, or at least a proper confrontation. As it stands all your problems can be solved simply by saying "No, I don't want to fight". How about having to convince an aggressor to back down? Or having to solve a serious dispute? None of these, still non-combat, scenarios are in there and I think something to give a feeling of danger or excitement would help set the player on the way.

You are supposed to care about the characters but if there is nothing to really care, or should I say worry, about then it is all just some other dude's problem; why should the *player* care? Now if the villain tries to mess with the player a little, that might serve as a good incentive for some players to really dig deep into the mystery. I for one am happy with the *main* story as is, I just find I get bored of introductions and grumpy legionaries and a brawl might help set the pacing right.

@ Kein: Please try to argue properly, no one has claimed that their dislike of one thing or another means that it is automatically bad. What has been said is simply that a change might be a good idea, to make things better. Not because they are bad, but because better is well better, and nowhere has anyone tried to just wildly claim that their opinion in this matter is universally what is *best* for the game, just what they would *like* and, this is important *WHY*.

No one in this thread is saying anything is implemented poorly. In fact, if anything can or should be taken from this thread it's that people LIKE the combat and they want more of it. People have only thrown out suggestions or wish lists; no demands as you state in another comment.

This forum is for feedback. And that is what it is being used for. If you disagree, that's fine. But really, please calm down and at least discuss why you disagree outside of "I like it how it is." How would this break the game mechanics? How would this detract from gameplay? How would this ruin the experience if the devs can do it properly?

Just because you don't like a suggestion, that doesn't mean it's bad.

If they do add in something like hungry muggers or something, I'd at least like the game to give you options like:

1. You've made the mistake of picking a fight with the wrong people. [Fight!]
2. [Intimidate] We've killed dozens of men stronger and better equipped than you. ( medium Situation bonus)
3. [Charm] Come on, let's talk this out. It'd be a shame if your face got all messed up. (Situation Penalty)
4. [Reason] We're Source Hunters. If you fight, you stand no chance. (small situation bonus)

The bonuses grow (and the penalty lessens) as the size of your party increases. If the check fails, a fight starts. There, a mugger fight that exists but can be avoided.

I'm not sure where it would go though, you'd have to do some rearranging of the town and probably much more. (Which might not be a bad thing as it would let them put a waypoint in by the market.)

I'm not sure that muggers would fit though, certainly not with the legion patrolling constantly. My objection to adding in something like this is that it could lead to requiringmore changes than you'd think.

Sigh. I guess no rats in the cellar this time around.

Well, at some point day and night cycles as well as schedules will be implemented. So, I think some muggers might appear during night time when all the righteous citizens and lazy guards are asleep...

That's an excellent point. Something happening at night could actually work very well, and give the player something to look forward to (since I imagine the shops will shut down and the investigation opportunities grind to a halt) and/or fear. Players that want to avoid combat could always opt to sleep through the night, perhaps.

I once added some bandits to the village (back when we had abandoned houses and empty cellars) and it completely felt wrong and out of place, illogical. I wouldn't just place combat for the sake of combat. It needs to make sense. But your feeling is noted.

You made it sound like I have anything against combat itself, which I never said and we both know it. The talk wasn't about combat and its mechanics and implementation, it was about adding combat into situation that someone find preferable because of their tastes.

If you want your combat where you want you can easily mod the game. It comes with editor, you know?


There are rats in the cellars, actually. This time, though, you don't fight them by default, you talk to them.

Also, a battle in the town might be very tricky, as you may have noticed that the battleground is *a bit* messy after a fight.
A cave, a crypt, a basement, anywhere isoleted will do.
But I understand that maybe know is not the time to ask for that kind of changes, cause the devs must have enough work to do...

I find myself agreeing with the original poster. I'm new here and I've only played a dozen hours or so, so I doubt I've seen it all, yet the first time I played through I actually got bored of the murder mystery because nothing was happening, so I just decided to walk out one of the gates and got slaughtered by my first encounter.

For me it's an issue of pacing. The game starts fairly fast, with a nice early fight against crabs, then the orc encounter, a burning ship and you're right in the middle of your murder quest, the reason you are there in the first place. Then the game pace slows to a crawl.

I'm not sure that adding combat in the town is a good idea. But I think the pacing of the plot needs to be improved. Maybe interrupt the plot for something important, or even just stop the plot (waiting for someone to return for example) and "encourage" players to explore the other quests and get out of town.

If you do what I did my first time and focus on carrying out your orders then after those first two encounters there's not another fight for literally hours.

Actually that is a reason *to* have a battle there, that does make it a lot more interesting, don't you think?

Perhaps he wants something between "no combat in town" and "kill/anger the civilians with all the damage surfaces lying around".

As I've said before maybe night time battle against shady people or if you sent the fish thief to jail his friends break him out and you can stumble across them at a remote area or less populated area of Cyseal.

As the only thrice Champion of the Petanque Annual Championship the Duke is at a lose.
Some goblins have stolen the Dukes Petanque set and scattered the balls in the towns sewers.
It's imperative to collect them as the annual Petanque championship is being held over the weekend.
Without his prized balls glistening in the sun the towns folk gossip about the repercussions.

Viola fits in with Original Sin humour.

Indeed ^^ But it might be hard not to piss everyone around, as the areas of damages of spells are not visibles when you cast. But you're right, it is something that can be fun.

I can't think of anyplace earlier to add something in town, but if you want an in-town fight, maybe a fight by a couple black cultists (disguised as Legionairres until combat starts) show up after (main quest spoilers)

I don't like random battles. Maybe some minidungons/quest ("please clean my cellar!") to learn how to figth, but if the area is clean, they should stay clean.

I like the town quests! You can collect exp for the hard figths in the area around the city.

The only thing I wonder about: You can't look in anyonce book, but you can burn down a door with fireballs near the legionares.

And I dont like this Arhu-Cat! How to sneak, if a cat is watching you?

I'am looking forward to the final Version with german translation. I think my english ist to bad to understand all this little larian goodies hidden in town. making soup with hammer and tomato is much better then killing myself with my own fireballs in battle.

I actually like quiet towns, where you can just do your quests without constantly being encoutered by enemies. If you want a fight you can just go out of town. It's just that the important dialogs should have sound in my opinion, I don't know if this is doable.

how about duelling some soldiers in the camp? no real mortal combat, of course.
also, when the day/night cycle has been implemented, how about some nightly quests that include some "bad guys" (burglars e.g.) which can be fought, if chosen so.

I don't think anyone is asking for "random" battles (certainly no more "random" than the completely not-random encounters outside the city gates. We're only asking for a battle or two to take place within the city, during the course of the investigation - to both improve pacing and amp up the difficulty of said investigation.

Let's be honest, the heroes manage to make some pretty significant headway on the murder mystery with zero effort beyond repeatedly walking between locations. Adding a little challenge (e.g. a cultist ambush) in there wouldn't hurt.

We've had a few updates so far which have required us to restart our campaigns. I have to honestly wonder how many of the longer-term players are still reading the investigation dialogue (which, don't get me wrong, is a wonderful read), or are they just clicking through it as quickly as possible to get to the adventuring part outside the city walls. I suspect most are doing the latter, particularly if this is your third or so trip through the game. A "stop and smell the roses" point placed about halfway through the in-city investigation can help with that.

The story problem is that the cultists should be perfectly happy to let Esmeralda take the fall - at least, right up until Esmeralda points you at someone who is actually in the cult. But by then, the investigation is mostly done and it's not long until there are mandatory battles.

To be honest, and I appreciate I might be in the minority, I've actually enjoyed running around Cyseal more than fighting random creatures outside.

It's a fantastic proving ground for players who want to try a different approach than the traditional "ugg bash thump" routine that we usually get in RPG's, and considering the time you actually spend there, there's blessedly few "obvious" fed ex quests. Sure there's still a bit of to and fro, but you don't feel like its an arbitrary "run here, get 'x' take it to npc 'y'"

I was actually pretty gutted to find that I'd exhausted all the options in town and had to head outside and hit things in order to continue.

Sneaking about, finding clever ways to distract people whilst I liberate them of their goodies, and just chatting and exploring have been great fun. I didn't set out to play the thief but I'm pleased to say I've unlocked pretty much every locked door I could find without resorting to combat, and the only doors I'm still working on are either protected by magic locks or very difficult to distract guards.

I completely agree. I'm sure that Larian will be adjusting the balance, but I also found that it hit a long boring patch too early. There's only so much repetitive chat and barrel opening that you can do before it starts to pall. Personally, I don't mind whether it's fights or interesting plot advancement, but it's good if there's something a bit meatier to keep the mood going. Others will of course disagree.

General Aureus(sp?) literally gives you 3 quests to go help out his men within 5 minutes of getting into the town.

There's no need to pour random and meaningless engagements into the murder quest when there's a whole world filled with enemies that you've been invited to take on.

The problem with that particular piece of advice was detailed back on page 1, I believe.

There is an abandoned house and several rooms i couldn't enter, but i would either bash in the door or use phoenix dive. I found a 165 dmg axe, so I can bash in doors in several seconds. The problem to me is that the quest log sometimes is like: 'we met the entertainer'. WTF am I supposed to do lol? Or find the staff, maybe a Condor at the harbor knows more and then he's like 'I don't know'. But yeah, i guess it's alpha, I'll check the which quests are solvable topic, maybe I'm just dumb.

The quest text is quite weird. Some of the unsolved quests don't actually feel like quests. It's just something that happens that has no apparent follow up, but it's still shown in the quest log? Okay.

This is one of the main core ideas of DOS for the quest systems. Originally, as far as i remember, there weren't planned actual "classic" quests, just journal entries. I assume due to Kickstater the idea shifted towards a bit more classic approach since apparently people want to see it again instead of trying something new. But game still follows the same concept - no apparent quests. It was mentioned few times in interview and KS updates.

I'd say it would definitely be worthwhile to separate what are journal entries and what are obviously quests.

If nothing else, then to make it clearer for new players. Nothing like being frustrated over unclear instructions to ruin the flow of a game for me.

If you need an instructions regarding HOW you will the play rather than game mechanics - is it even worth to play the game? What kind of shallow experience will it be.

I'm sorry, what do you mean?

You have quests such as

"Aureus informed you of some legionnaires he sent to the church, but could not tell you anymore".

That's pretty obvious, without telling you how to play. Go find the church, find the legionnaires, find out what they learnt.

Then you have nonsense like

"Bertia claims she lost a sheep".

Ok. So? Why is that a quest? Hell, I found a sheep, that was lost and mauled. I went to talk to her (even had the sheep carcasse with me) and there was no prompt for it? Why is that in my quest menu?

It's clearly a journal entry. Not a quest.

Similar to

"What's-her-name told you her brother Tom went to join the Fantastic Five".

Cool story. Why is it a quest? It's just a journal note. (I spoke to the recruiter dude about Tom, and he told me where he went. Why didn't my quest update? Why didn't I get a dialogue option with what's-her-name telling her where her bro is?). It's not a quest. It's just a note.

As opposed to both the Jake's Killer quest, and the "Did Esmerelda do it?" quest. Both of which update as you find information, and give you an idea of what to do.

As for "being told how to play". Well yeah, it kind of is needed, given how restricting the gameplay is. (Not a complaint about the game, just a reality). If it were up to me, I'd have gotten the information out of Esmerelda on my own grounds, a lot quicker, but I don't have that option.

I'd have asked Bertia more about her sheep, I'd have grilled the recriuter about Tom, and informed what's-her-name. That the game doesn't let you do such simple things means it does need to do a little bit of pointing, to make up for how little you can interact with the world.

And I still feel that things that are just journal updates should stay in a journal, until you uncover enough information for them to be a quest.

You can actually track down the quest that Tom was sent on... plus you can also do more regarding Bertia and the sheep. So yeah... If you'd paid attention and didn't need your hand held so much then you might have less to complain about... Just my two cents.

Still though, if you find a sheep corpse, there probably should be an option to tell Bertia without having to get a confession from the thief first.

That would make sense of course but the original post I quoted implied that there was no way to resolve that 'journal entry'. Plus its an alpha, I'm sure that there'll be more polishing and refining to go on these quests, especially given the feedback that Larian's receiving. What we're playing now is merely indicative of the shape of the final game, not an extract of it.

I'm not saying that I want my hand held. You're not listening.

It makes no sense to have "Bertia says her sheep was stolen" as a quest. That's not a quest. It is a piece of information I've picked up on the way.

I'm quite sure that as I progress along that "quest" will eventually unfold, but until then it isn't a quest.

And on that point, why didn't the quest update when I found what was obviously her sheep's corpse, in the middle of a reasonably serioues murder investigation. I would have thought that questioning the person who's sheep ended up being a shoe-in for the corpse of a government official might be important. Nope. Nothing at all. But still the little "quest" line sitting there.

A simple "You've found Bertia's sheep, best hunt down who took it" instead of leaving me hanging, unable to talk to the person who it makes sense to talk to. That would turn it from a meaningless piece of trivia written in a quest log, into a quest.

You're not listening either. Picking up little pieces of information is one way for quests in this game to start.

You're right that the quest should update when you find the sheep corpse. That seems more like an omission of Alpha than by design.

I get that quests start from tidbits. I have no problem with that. I just don't like random pieces of information being called a quest. It seems the quest log is more a journal, and it just fills up with pieces of information. Not everything I hear needs to be labelled a quest.

I'd much rather have a separate journal and quest log. Quest logs holds actual quests, with information and such, for example the Esmeralda guilt thing, or the main quest. Things that take up more than 3 lines.

Then have a second screen, the Journal, that is for little things.

Guards on the Bridge:

• Ran into some guards on the bridge.
• Killed them.

Bertia's Lost Sheep

• Bertia claimed her sheep was stolen.
• Found a suspicious sheep corpse.
• Confronted thief, then reported back to Bertia.

Except that it IS quest information. What don't you get about that?

... I don't get how "Bertia lost a sheep" is quest information. It isn't. It's a sentence saying "Bertia lost a sheep". It's not "Bertia needs help finding her sheep" it's not "Bertia lost a sheep and has asked for your help in finding out who stole it". It's not "Bertia lost a sheep and you found a sheep corpse".

"Bertia lost a sheep" is not a quest. It's not part of a quest. It's just "Bertia lost a sheep".

That's EXACTLY what I was talking about when mentioned "indirect quest design". Some quests will be classic way, mostly main. But many sidequests will be quite unapparent, just a little tidbits of information that may mean nothing... or start a whole quest line as Swen one mentioned.

As for the dead sheep and quest not being updated - yes, that is a na error, keep in mind please that this is ALPHA - development -- build. I'm pretty sure they will fix many of such things later.

Rather than investigate a murder, I would much prefer to be killing monsters.

I'm pretty sure you're missing the point. This is a proper RPG where you get to choose what happens. You found out Bertia lost a sheep. You can do nothing about that. You can track down the sheep and sell its corpse. Or you can find the person who took it and get reparations for the sheep. You get to CHOOSE how the quest plays out. The game doesn't just go A>b>c>d>QUESTCOMPLETELEVELUP. How hard is that to understand?

Also, on your note about a "journal"; how is a journal full of quest entries not a journal? Have you noticed that when you get more information about something an orange note appears saying "Journal Updated!"

EDIT:

This is what I mean by hand holding. Why didn't it occur to you to go find the person who took the sheep? Why did you NEED a big flashing arrow from larian to tell you that was the next logical step?

You'll find that there are multiple gates to the city, all of them with enemies nearby. You're not trapped. The point of this thread is that for those who do like actual questing while keeping their characters lawful there isn't any combat at all for a few hours, which really feels weird considering the city is meant to be under attack from at least 3 sources.

It's also a city that's been living with constant attacks for two years and is basically neutral on that point. The undead can't be destroyed, they're a threat to trade and travel, but no longer to the city itself. The orc attack is relatively new and big news, but the orcs are focused more on the beach than the actual city.

I have no idea what the third attack is. If you mean the cultists, they aren't exactly rampaging through the streets now, are they. They're hiding.

Rather than killing monsters I much prefer to investingate a murder, find Jobs for the sailors, couple the cats ... give me more quests in this peacefull City, so I can develop my characters for the fightings outside!!!!

I think its a good game! You get enougth possibilities for your likings. I also like the exploration points. If you find a hidden terrain you get exp! (I like this exploration bug! )

I did mean the cultists yes.

All I'm saying is that it wouldn't be too hard or far-fetched for Larian to implement combat oppurtunities inside the city without being forced or making us play Chaotic characters.

Please don't think I am rubbishing the game. The game is wonderful.

I just wanted to pass on my thanks to the developers for adding in some combat opportunities during the murder investigation. I really think it'll help the pacing, and am looking forward to trying the changes out!

Whiners got what they wanted again.

Wow, never happened before with DOS!

Maybe Hardcore mode will fix this situation Kein!

Who "whined"? It was feedback. And if the developers didn't feel there was something to it, they wouldn't have implemented the change. Now, if you feel the developers made a bad call, explain why. Don't just sit there making fun of everyone, as that's completely unhelpful.

Seriously, do you come to these forums with the intention of being helpful and aiding in making a better game, or is your entire goal to just troll and be generally unpleasant? Because the latter is the impression you're leaving me with.

Yeah, Larian should keep creating a frustrating and boring game just for you. Not all people are ready to spend 20 minutes for the stupid statues, which I haven't found yet.

I think it was reasonable feedback; and in this specific case the developers seems to agree that adding a bit of spice helps. Not sure why it offends Kein but you can't please everyone

I think it was the "mandatory" comment that is perhaps objectionable. I've no problems with combat being optional, perhaps one particular path to the completion of a quest, but why force players into it? Personally I don't really care for large amounts of combat in my games, I prefer exploration and finding alternative solutions like mediation, sneaking or whatever unless I'm in a particularly belligerent mood. It's all about choice rather than suggesting that players "should" like things to be such-and-such a way, which is an unfortunately prevalent attitude amongst some sections of the RPG community.

Only if you take the comment out of context. Look at the entire statement:



"Mandatory" in this case is referring to examples of battles that players can't avoid due to the way they're woven into the story. For example, by the time the player enters Cyseal they've learned that it has come under attack by orcs several time already. You, in fact, are forced to deal with such an attack prior to being allowed to enter Cyseal. It's a mandatory battle - one that can not be missed by chance or due to the way you've chosen to play your character. As tactical combat is a huge part of the game, one should not expect to be able to avoid it at every opportunity.

The problem with Cyseal was that there were combat opportunities in town: you could kill the elder elf, you can fail the ghost's test and trigger a battle, you can get into a skirmish with the guards, you can attack almost anyone if you want. But if you're trying to play as someone who isn't a complete jerk, psychopath or incompetent, all the optional fights become non-options. You miss them "due to the way you've chosen to play your character".. and that can be frustrating for someone itching for some tactical combat after two hours of errand-running in town.

Thus, what I was looking for was a fight for the rest of us: players who don't go around picking fights but are drawn into one because circumstances make it unavoidable (i.e. mandatory) - like another orc attack on the city, assassins striking at the party, getting sucked into the chaos of a bar fight, etc. You don't have to be playing an incompetent, psychotic, or jerkish character to participate in these, you just have to show up and let the storyline play out to an unavoidable combat encounter.

Now, if you wanted to be presented with an option of "fighting off the orc attack on the town" or "walk away and leave everyone to be slaughtered", I have nothing against that other than the fact that it makes little sense seeing as your characters have already shown they're willing to help protect the town from orcs, and creating an alternate Cyseal that's under orc occupation due to your lack of action is (while interesting) a little more work than I wanted to ask of the developers.

Again, the "mandatory" part of that statement was all about context.

This is so true.

I understand what you mean by mandatory, but I still don't like it. It should be a choice: give a combat option or a negotiation option, for example. Players who like combat can take that option, players who don't can take the other. I don't really see the point in forcing all players down a certain route whether they like it or not: play the game the way you like, and let me play the way I like, the latter of which means mostly avoiding combat. That IMHO is the essence of a true RPG, and the way I choose to play it shouldn't be anyone else's concern.

I'd also view the "fight the orcs or let everyone be slaughtered" as a false dichotomy: that isn't much of a choice.

Late to the party, but my 2 ct. are that I don't feel that mandatory combat in Cyseal is necessary.
As has been stated, there's always the possibility to leave the town, several quests point you to locations outside of town and there's plenty of combat to be had there.

Anyway, if there's a good reason for a combat encounter in Cyseal I'm not necessarily against it, I just don't think it's really necessary.

As with life, in a true RPG sometimes a choice isn't always available.

For example: you're surrounded and attacked by assassins. They're going to try and kill you. You can try to talk your way out of it, buy them off, etc, but in the end they're still going to try and kill you. You can either defeat them or you'll die - that's the extent of your choice. If that's the scenario, then that's the scenario.

There are many combat encounters outside Cyseal (both prior to arriving and then upon departing) that can't be avoided (i.e. mandatory), I'm surprised anyone flinches at the concept of them. Did you, for example, really feel like your choices were being taken away when you ran into the hostile crabs shortly after starting the game? Because I can't recall seeing anyone complaining about any of those fights, so I really think some people in this thread were highly overreacting with the proposal of adding another battle during a particularly long dry spell.

It wasn't the end of the world, it was just more of what was already in the game - which everyone seemed to be fine with until "one or two more battles" was proposed, as if that was the tipping point that would somehow destroy all semblance of choice and role-playing in the game.

I can sum this entire thing up much better by saying "people on the internet overreacted".



Heh. You're so late to the party that (with the latest patch, and as a result of player feedback) a few additional combat encounters were made available during our time in Cyseal. The developers work pretty fast.

Has it ruined the game for you in some way? Do you feel they can be improved? If so, how and why?

I have played the latest build only very briefly, but that is how I understand things:

Larian added one dungeon beneath the cemetery where you can meet some undead creatures and fight against them. If you want to have more fights in Cyseal - go down to this dungeon, if you prefer the peaceful way - just ignore the dungeon and continue with the murder investigation. So, as far as I see this solution should satisfy everyone.

So where is the problem? Or do I miss something obvious (please correct me if it is so)?

Yes, and I thanked them for this addition back when the patch was released. I thought it was an example of evaluating feedback and then making a decision to act upon it, but according to Kein this addition is just another example of Larian giving into the "whiners". Who knew!

He's been toxic just about everywhere, and he even has the gall to tell other people they should put me on ignore (after chasing me around on the forums and sniping me for a couple of days). That much should tell you he's better left entirely alone.

Back on-topic: I really do enjoy everything they're doing with our feedback, and I feel like I'll be playing this game forEVER when it finally comes out. The graveyard tunnel was just what we needed I think.

I have not played since my first play through, but I am glad to here that combat was added. It was an extremely long period of time without any fighting.

The reason we didn't have combat in Cyseal before, is because it didn't make sense. Unless you wanted to fight rats in cellars. The tunnel that leads to the well and the graveyard and the cellar of the abandoned house makes sense, because it explains how "the corpse" was moved. (If you know what corpse I mean, you will understand.)

Yes, there was combat missing in Cyseal, but we wouldn't have just placed it there for its own sake. So now it makes sense. Also, even without the small dungeon, you could just leave Cyseal any time you like and go fight some skeletons, right?

I'm just glad you added the experience through dialogue feature. It makes things feel much more natural and gives us incentive to communicate more, especially where quests are concerned. I can't comment on the combat you added yet since I am waiting for the next hotfix before I play. When it arrives, however, I will jump in once more and be able to let you know.

Well, we fight crabs on the beach...

Anyways, as old as it sounds, a rat invasion in a plagued city besieged by undeads could make sense. Maybe in the inn cellar, where there is food ? In a remote part of the cemetary, or of the small dungeon ?
Give a little chance to catch a disease/be poisoned when a rat succeeds an attack. Make some "rat head" trophy,that ht eplayer will loot every time he kills a rat (or almost, because sometimes, you just crush them heads...) that the players will be able to sell for, like 5 XPs, and 10 gold (in a specific convo with the innkeeper, or any Bounty hunter legionnaire ?). Not much, but still better way to gain gold than, say, opening crates ? And want to make use of those crates ? Make a random spawn of those rats when a player breaks a crate in the "rat invasion" area ("where are you hiddin' ye crittaaaars...").
Of course, this is not "source hunter" job. Just as finding a job for fishermen is not. Just don't make it mandatory. Players call.
I think it is a little way to add some life and "world interactions" and things to do in Cyseal.

Had it been me, I would have added a "Bounty hunting "job"" ability, that would give 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% / 30% bonus to gained XPs/gold from such Bounty stuff. Anyways, its me, and the world is not random respawn, and XPs scumming/level issues, and blah blah blah, I know, just sharing my thoughts on making the world more "interreactive" ...


"Quite" right. As a matter a fact, going pretty fast to the Level 6 undead packs outside with my basic knight and warrior builds requires that you gain at least a few levels, and/or find proper gear, and/or hire back up, if not all of that, which is really quite tedious (just finding the inn is tedious in the beginning...).

So you really would need to prepare for these fights, which I learnt the very hard way quite a lot of times... And still, "being found" by one of those packs (instead of finding them, really), with auto combat start, would mean instant "back to town" button, and eventually end of alpha try, out of boredom and frustration, waiting for the next patch.

Not a personnal attack or anything, really, just trying to explain how the beginning of the game might feel for some players.

i couldn't agree more that the pacing of the early game is to a point that makes it become annoying.
i would suggest a hybrid idea between a mandatory and an optional fight. an event that give you the choice to fight or avoid combat, and more importantly, interacting with the game in the way that how you solve the encounter.

for example, a bully harassing shop keeper in the market. you can choose to a) pretend you don't see him b) talk to him and if you don't have a good social skill will eventually leads into fighting.

by avoiding combat, you will actually feel bad that you didn't stop the harassment and shop keeper detest you as you watch instead of helping.

by fighting him and killed him, his friends will come back and try bite you in the ass.

by fighting him and stopped when he begs you, you will be given a second chance to talk/bluff him stop harassing shop keeper, too low of social skill will fail and results in revenge or continue of shop keeper harassment.

something like that, the opposite of the existing optional fight in town, which now you actually feels bad or not following the quest if you don't fight or try/failed to solve the encounter

IMO this is something we do learn from playing it a few times over. But the first time I played and I suspect many people are like this. We don't know what to expect. What we fall into is "Talk to everybody" because if I don't I might miss a key part. Then you have 10 quests going at once... to be honest I'm not a big fan of that, to me stories get lost. But since I didn't know how the game worked being new to it, that is the safest way to roll.

So with that mindset, you can spend a lot of time in town before you get into a run of fair sized battles.

Now knowing how it all works, yes you can get to town, go grab the 2 Hirelings and head out the West Gate and fight level 2 and 3's to have some fighting fun and level. All within 5-10 mins of arriving.

I go back to the Bartender in the Crab should be the TIP guy. "Hey if you want to have some fun knocking heads when you get into town, head out the West Gate. Great way to toughen up!"

Good News: There will be Walkthrough's coming...

Wait, people want MORE combat?
Am I the only one here who thinks combat is the weakest part of any RPG, and the negative Combat/non-combat quantity is usually representitive of the game's quality (which in the case of OS means "good quality, and it is!).

Why ruin that with more combat? There's more to games than stupid meaningless combat every 10 minutes. The less the better! Am I alone in there?

I don't know about you being the only one. But combat overall is the most important part for me, I put that right into the gameplay dept. The other side is story. If anything was mostly or nearly all about story. I still find Movies and TV far superior to the point I don't know if/when games vs tv/movies will be equal. For game stories I do like them more linear, too many stories going on at once, means a lot of I don't care anymore and just die!

So yes combat is very important to me. Coop-Turnbased and what is turning into a good system is TITS in my book. This is like playing DnD on a PC without all the hassle of doing all the table top work. Thank you! Thank You! THANK YOU!

(Sighs) If all you want is combat, go play a Shooter!! An RPG should offer alternatives to any and all combat IMHO. Working out different ways to accomplish things without resorting to combat is FAR more important to me. Yes, I realise that it IS a part of gameplay, but it shouldn't dominate. Two of my all time favourite games PS-T and U7 allowed you to avoid a great deal of the possible combat and PS-T actually rewarded you for doing so!!

I don't know about you being the only one. But combat overall is the most important part for me, I put that right into the gameplay dept. The other side is story. If anything was mostly or nearly all about story. I still find Movies and TV far superior to the point I don't know if/when games vs tv/movies will be equal. For game stories I do like them more linear, too many stories going on at once, means a lot of I don't care anymore and just die!

So yes combat is very important to me. Coop-Turnbased and what is turning into a good system is TITS in my book. This is like playing DnD on a PC without all the hassle of doing all the table top work. Thank you! Thank You! THANK YOU! [/quote

Would be nice to have some optional dungeon type areas and quests inside ... cellars... rodent problems ring a bell lol

One would think that if someone were interested in combat, they could play an RPG game with turn-based tactical combat, no? Which is the type of game Divinity : OS is. If you're looking for strictly a story experience, go play ZORK or Myst.

By the way, please take note of the date this thread was started before diving in - it was prior to a patch that introduced additional combat opportunities to Cyseal thanks to feedback like this. Despite all the doom-and-gloom posting to the contrary, it did not ruin the game, and was added in a way that made sense.