Lets address the legendary elephant in the room...Why are we not seeing any threads on the previous games? This IS Baldur's gate series after all?!
Does everyone here HATE these previous games? Or even played them?

I still play quite a lot of BG2 (classic version running great on Wine, M1 max MacOS Monterey). I like <old> and <modern> games alike. And I think BG2 holds up more than enough to <modern> standards (lol).

What did you like about these classic games them? What would you love seeing back in BG3?

I played them ALL - and when I say all I also mean every addon and extension.

Now, years later - I don't play them anymore, but trust me, I have played them more than anything else, and are on the very top of my fav list of best games of all time.

let's venture on...

I mean a great record/band stays that way usually? Yea its old but its also timeless.
I am totally for moving on, THEN CHANGE THE NAME. Would a new band call themselves Pink Floid v.2 and be like a boys band R&B group playing bango and cosplaying?
Its like stuff in the last 20 years is basically rehashed/repackaged with just the name to bring sells while shitting on the original IPs. True for the gaming industry as well as the movie industry.
Star trek, Terminator, Star wars, Halo, for instance.
And guess what, we also have amazing stuff like Expanse, Breaking bad, Disco Elysium...

<3 those prerendered graphics.

I started playing BG II again in 2020, thinking that the full release of BG III would be a matter of months. I wanted to get myself in the mood, and to remember all the little story nuances so I could look for connections and Easter eggs in BG III. But here we are in 2022 and I am still waiting, waiting, waiting ...

BG II Shadows of Amn and the Throne of Bhaal expansion still hold up. The area graphics are indeed beautiful, and the 2D animation is good enough where once you get playing, you don't care that it's not 3D. Many of the map areas are used by multiple quests, which gives a good sense of non-linear action and "life" in the world. Some of the dialogs and voicings are just awesome; I could listen to Renal Bloodscalp talk all day. And overall, it is a great story being told through a D&D experience.

I still play the Infinity Engines games once in a while, and yes, BG1-2 still holds up. Mainly because top notch graphics is not necessary for a great game, and is very secondary to gameplay and story, in my experience/tastes.



I liked plenty of things in BG1-2, but here are some of the things that were great and that I would love seeing in BG3.

UI, CONTROLS AND PLAYABILITY.

• The party controls. I know, they are just the standard control scheme used in so many CRPG and RTS games, nothing really special there. In fact, I didn't even notice this when I first played BG. I had to meet Larian's much inferior chain system to appreciate how seamless the rest of the industry makes moving a bunch of units around in a video game.
• The clearly organised "hotbar"/action bar. With a special menu for spells ... It is also customisable with Quick Access Spells and Belt Items. The icons are sorted. They do not move around when I load a game.
• Looting : the Display All Loot function (which appeared in the Enhanced Editions, wasn't there in the original games). Such a QoL improvement after slaughtering a whole of camp of baddies.
• Looting : One-click pick-up of item. I would love it if BG3 removed the stupid double-click requirement for those players who don't want to use Take All in each loot window.
• Looting : the loot window close immediately when moving away from a body or chest.

IMMERSION.

• Time is actually a thing. The in-world time is displayed in the main screen. The journal records the days of events.
• There is a Day/Night cycle . It adds a lot of atmosphere. You even have some differences in NPC availability (no merchants at night in the small villages).
• Camping takes place on the spot. It's very natural. There is no pocket dimension (except when the story clearly introduces one in ToB).
• Credible sense of distances and travel time. No convenient teleportation portals that nobody uses except the heroes.
• Living world : wild life and monsters are renewed when we come back on a previously visited map. Little squirrels, wolves and bears are found roaming around. They are not waiting for us.
• Credible sense of time for some quests. Whether it's those who want to go to Nashkel in BG1, or Nalia who wants your help to combat the invasion of her castle in BG2, NPC Companions will get annoyed if you keep not doing what you said you would.

COMPANIONS.

• A cast of 17 decent Companions in BG2. I hope that Larian can give us at least 12-14 of them.
• Not every companion is a Bhaalspawn. Some just follow us because we helped them. Or they care about us.

BG1 was the very first RPG video game I ever played, and as such is the game that introduced me to the genre (on computer; I'd been playing TT D&D for several years before BG1) and also made me love that genre forever. I subsequently played both BG games dozens of times, although I have favored the first game over the second game because I love that feeling you get playing low level where everything is dangerous and scary and death can come at you from around every corner. I also love the open exploration areas in BG1, because for me the joy I get from playing these games it is not just about combat encounters or even quests but actually role-playing my characters and my party.

The games themselves have not become "old" for me yet. However, certain mechanics and gameplay elements, quality of life elements, and to some extent the low-res graphics have caused me to dial down on playing them these days, because I do now have games like the PoE and Pathfinder games I can also replay, which I enjoy playing a lot too. So it is no longer only the IE games that I have to rely on for scratching that old nostalgic itch. I now have additional choices.

Btw, this is a very valid set of questions, OP. I also have been wondering about this. If BG3 is a legitimate third installment of the BG video games franchise, why are we not seeing much, if any, discussion in this forum of those older games?

If I was being harsh, I'd suggest that is because Larian are appealing mostly to a different demographic with their rendition. Quite a few posters here have alluded to their love of the previous games but I have also noted several who have never played them (I do seem to recall a few studio workers in Panel from Hell saying they had never played the previous games too.). I'd also imagine a fair proportion of people posting across various forums are fans of Larian's previous work or just attracted by the cinematics, as well as the obligatory D&D fans looking for a CRPG experience. So for many people the previous games would be of little interest I guess.

I've certainly seen plenty of posts highlighting issues/mechanics such as Drath's above and I agree with every single one of those points. I don't really know what more can be said in that respect; they wold add immeasurably to immersion and the user experience but bringing them up sort of feels like having a conversation with a wall because we have no idea what Larian thinks about them. Some might say, 'not very much' because they were never implemented from the outset so they must have considered them obsolete.

I still play the original games from time to time though overfamiliarity can slightly taint the experience because nothing can quite match the sheer joy I had playing them the first few times.
You never forget your first time, as they say.

No I don't play it long time, there is just nothing new and exiting for me, all things known...but there are also people like Davaeorn(twitch streamer who only plays BG again and again)that probably doesn't matter to them. But for me it's just looks weird, like people stuck in their past some sort.

I played Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic I. and II. ... does that count?
Some people say those games are basicaly the same with different asets.

Played the hell out of every IE games since their debut. I've realistically done between 3-5 playthroughs of everything from Planescape to SOD, every sequel, extension, vanilla, EEs, litterally thousands of hours of playtime. I own them on multiple platforms and I still play today. In fact, I'm in the middle of something I've never done so far: a COMPLETE walkthrough of the BG saga on iOS. Fun times

I played BG 1& 2 many times. Last time was last year. I like a lot of things about them, but I'm not a fan of the child of the god of murder premise. I like more down to earth character concepts like Hawke from DA2, who was just a normal girl in the wrong place, no chosen one crap.
And I will never ever forgive BioWare for Anomen, the worst and whiniest character ever - and then they made him the only love interest for women. WTF? Thank Cthulhu for mods.
I like the world, most characters ( apart from the A- word, I don't like Minsc and Aerie, they are super annoying for me), the storyline mostly and most of the game mechanics.
I like the party of 6, day and night cycle ( and that events are happening based in that) and the tons of mods.
Speaking of old and in this case flawed games: The game I played more often than the two BGs is Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines.

BG 1 & 2 are too outdated for me now. I am very happy I got BG 3, though!😊

Baldurs gate series has there own forums, I think its beandog or something like that. Personally haven't gotten around to play them nor did larian make them, hence why there is more talk about bg3 on here.

in all honesty i would like to see a bg2 remake and perhaps latest ruleset?. unfortunately that will never happened in my opinion. i love the OST i still have them. gotta load it up to my phone and listen to them someday.

Icky old visuals, dearth of voice acting (comparatively speaking, anyhow), no trendy modern humor, gameplay that doesn't hold your hand, etc. Agreed!


Don't forget Resident Evil: that series - once a fixed-camera angle methodical horror movie experience (with the exception of Code Veronica, which used a moving camera) - has now mutated into either a third-person shooter with martial arts or a first-person whatever-the-hell-it-is. I wish more developers embraced the idea of "Ending on a high note.".

^ Jump to 3:30.


I am really not interested in a new(er) studio trying to push their identity through the name of a beloved established series. Sadly, this only confirms my initial suspicions of BG3. The game could still be decent on its own merits, sure, but it won't be Baldur's Gate.

It's been a long time since the last one !

I'm still playing BG1/2 too, but less often than before. But BG1/2 are still the best RPGs of all time imo, the most immersive and the best role playing experience.

I like BG3 a lot and finally, I'm not against big changes.
But BG3 has too much DoS inside it (even if some people think it's not true) and not enough BG.

The biggest thing BG3 lack imo is a coherent and a believable world... A world in which cows doesn't climb ladder, in which everything (time included) is not waiting for the player and in which goblins aren't stupid to the point that they don't find their ennemies 150m further.

I'm so sad they haven't been inspired at all by BG1/2 !

I also love BG1 and BG2 and have been playing them since they first came out (although I play on the iPad now). These games brought D&D back into my life. Some posts here last fall inspired me to fire them up again on the iPad. I still love them, BUT…. After playing BG3 EA this past year, I miss having verticality in the game. I miss having interactive environments. I miss having fully acted dialogue encounters. I miss having trees and grasses blowing in the wind. I miss having a 3D view that I can rotate. I miss having the 5e rules (wait did I just say that!?! I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.)

As much as I love(d) BG1 and BG2, I am so much more looking forward to a completed BG3 even though Larian has a different feel than the original.

Both Baldur's Gate titles feature a day and night cycle; Larian's attempt doesn't.

BG2 was my first cRPG and it still is my favorite RPG of all time.


Don't get me started...

I don't find discussing BG1&2 to be much of the revelance here, as BG3 has barely anything to do with them. It's a sequel in the name only.

BG2 is a classic, and one of the few 100% guaranteed games to be included in my top 10 of all times - it is "dated" in the way films from silver era are: they are clearly not a modern production, but at least for me it doesn't diminish their value or my enjoyment of it. Some of it's individual ideas are underdeveloped by todays stadard and there are elements that I could easily criticise, but they all combine into something one of a kind and special. Did a full playthrough of BG1&2 sometime around PoE2 campaign (so 4, 5 years ago?) and it was still great experience. Did play around with infinity engine games on my ipad about a year ago, and in spite of clunky touch interface I still had a pretty good time.

I think less of BG1, even though I am very fond of it as well - but I see it more as the game that came before BG2. A bit like Demon Souls to Dark Souls, Systemshock1 to Systemshock2, Civilization1 to Civilization2.

I'm playing a TON of BG1/2 right now (EE for me, just due to better mod support etc.) while I'm waiting for BG3 to come out. I still absolutely love it to this day and I think it aged very well. The modding community has also kept it fresh for me - mainly through challenge mods like SCS and Ascension.

I recently just finished a solo-run with an uncapped Fighter/Mage/Thief (mainly because otherwise you can hit the XP cap in chapter 4 of 10 in BG2/TOB). The final battle with this mod (done by David Gaider, one of the Devs of the game) is probably still my favorite final boss fight in RPG history. It's an intense gauntlet of fights after fights that stretches your resources to the limits, especially if you're solo-ing. It also fixes some of the narrative issues of the original ending. Highly recommended for anyone replaying this fine game today.

The thing I miss most really is more the 2E aspects of the game, where the magic system really feels like magic. There are certain hard rules and interactions to the system - i.e. if someone has Protection from Magical Weapons, they WILL not be hit. That's it. No brute forcing like how you can in Pathfinder or 5E. It's very binary and unfair on an individual basis, but in party-based game I think it adds a lot chess-like mini-games and depth. However, I don't think any modern D&D game will get to use that system again.

The other thing I'll say will probably not go well with the Table-Top purists, but BG2 definitely took in liberties in adapting the D&D rules for the videogame, and I think it was WAY better for it. There is a lot of broken cheese in this game that has become defining features of the game IMO. Some of it is almost core to the gameplay - i.e. learning the latin spoken for different spell types, and microing you toon away and item-swapping to the right pieces to help you tank it last moment as literal magic projectiles approaching is an AMAZING experience, and more Diablo than D&D. But it's amazing, and I wouldn't have BG2 in any other way. The amazing final battle that I just had on Ascension would not be possible if both my character and the enemies were playing by the "rules".

My only complaint about the game - i.e. the thing that has aged worst for me - really is some of the plotting and lack of branching/choices. For a game that lets you roleplay an ascension to godhood, it does kind of often put you into places of absolute powerlessness for plot convenience via cutscenes. I.e. getting captured multiple times, constantly being tricked by not just the main villains (even if you can see it coming a mile away), but even minor sleezebag side characters like Saemon Havarian, etc. It's surprisingly linear. But at this point I'm basically fast forwarding the dialogue to get to the fun parts so the break in immersion doesn't really hurt that much.

Currently doing a Cleric/Ranger party run - another example of cheese or "bad implementation turned fun". It's a kind of a infamous multi-class because Bioware implemented it in that makes this class get all the Druid spells too (something off limits to Clerics and Rangers). Ironically, the Beamdog actually removed this cool interaction - it was the first thing I modded back in lol. I'm blazing through this pretty quickly - already in Throne of Bhaal with 3 of the 5 down for the count.

Embarrassingly, this new EE portrait might have inspired me to name my character after someone from BG3...

You must have tough times with sequels huh?

I mean ... every studio gives every game their own identity ... hells even different Actors playing the same character play it allways "their way" ...
Hells sometimes even the same studio delivers different game bcs team working on it changed too much over the time!
Just recently i have found interesting project where group of DnD players played the same session over and over ... but each time different player was a GM ... i would not believe how much they differ if i didnt see it wih my own eyes and ears.

Video game sequels cranked out by completely different developers some two odd decades plus later are different from sequels released two to four years later by the same developers.

Basically this. I can accept the change from 2e to 5th, i can suck it up about the old painting like art style vs. the new 3d stuff, etc etc. But I find it really hard to accept they chose to not follow the predecessors in the things listed below. I also really do not see the advantage or benefit of not implementing stuff that was standard 2 years ago. Can't help but feel it is a serious downgrade. It's like making a nice, new, expensive version of a classic car, but refusing to give it a paint job. Because, you know, it's only cosmetics and it's only what's "under the hood" that manners....



Otherwise, I still start new games fairly frequently in the EE infinity games. Given I have them on my phone, they've been my goto time killers for when i'm flying or otherwise need to wait for long. At this point, I would legit be more exited about them finding the IWD2 source code and releasing it as an EE together with the OG Bg3 - the black hounds which was forever lost to us too...

I can't imagine playing the EE games on my phone. I feel like the control of things would be devastatingly slow...

My character's pre-buff routine right now uses almost 15+ keybinds between Divine / Arcane spells so it can go faster lol. Having to manual click each one... I would go insane.

Speaking of another thing I would love to see come back - companion perma deaths aka "chunking".

There's nothing more satisfying and hilarious than the tradition of finishing a no-reload BG run with a cobbled-together half-sized party - not the one you wanted but the one you deserved because you got the rest of your party perma-killed.

I know BG3 will not have the same amount of companions and will likely have mercenaries, but as someone who'll eventually play no reload, I want to the game to punish me

It helps that I am not one of those ultra hard settings + mods kinda BG player. I play on 'core rule' difficulty precisely because I want to avoid the tediousness of pre buffing. Also, I'm probably only able to enjoy playing this on my phone because I know the UI already. The key is auto-pause

^This is *exactly* how I felt: sheer joy! That very first time I played BG1 was almost a magical experience. Keeping in mind I had never played anything like that before on a computer, it literally blew my mind. I was in grad school at that time with no money to afford anything, including a computer. But my grad school friends were all playing this new game that had just come out and raving about it. Then a few months later one of my friends was going away for the holidays and needed someone to house-sit for him, and he told me I could play games on his computer as much as I wanted. Well, the very first night, around 9 pm, I booted up his computer and launched BG1. The next time I looked up at the clock it was 7 am.

Hahaha this made me chuckle. I can totally relate, on the nights I wasn't at home playing I used to come back in the early hours of the morning and still boot up BG, IWD or NWN.

I think what BG1 did really well (though I understand this divides opinion) is the sense of loss and being out in the wilderness without much of a clue what to do or where to go. Personally I loved the exploration but appreciate this wasn't for everyone. BG2 obviously had a much tighter sense of exploration but it still conveyed time and distance, things which are notably absent in Larian's theme park maps. I think in a fundamental way they don't really *get* what made those games so memorable.

Yes you nailed it. I was immediately able to relate to Charname in a very personal way. You are this adopted kid with no known background. You are raised in Candlekeep, which only serves to highlight even more how much of a nobody you are, being constantly surrounded by people so very highly educated and talented. Finally, when you become an adult, your adoptive father takes you out of this closed setting you've spent your whole life in, on a very important journey you know nothing about. But soon after leaving, a very ominous and scary and uber-powerful enemy attacks and kills the only person in the world who cares for you, leaving you cold, starving, exposed, vulnerable, and so very alone in the world. And you have no idea what to do next, and only a very vague idea of some place you're supposed to go to. Heck you don't even have confidence you will survive the day!

No other game since has made me feel as connected to my PC as the beginning of BG1 did for me.

Yeah, a wolf killed me right away. Then I reloaded, decided that first wilderness map was too dangerous, and went down to High Hedge ... yeeoww, six skeletons!

Robert Frost never wrote about the reason *why* a particular road was seldom traveled.

But anyway, I grew to love BG I. Much more satisfying than watching TV.

Same here. The very beginning of the Bhaalspawn saga is what did it for me. I never replayed any IE games more than the beginning of BG1.

I remember the first times I played BG1 how I was struggling to beat Tarnesh. This guy used to give me a lot of trouble, as I never picked Monty and Xzar. I was such a Paladin back then

It's funny to recall just how 'green' the beginning of BG1 made the PC feel and in many respects rightly so because it created such a tangible sense of character progression in the long run. Comparatively the BG3 intro sort of feels like a high school graduate intern being thrown into hospital emergency room.

Hehe. In BG1, if you had created Charname as a wizard with low CON, literally tripping over a rock could kill you.

And yeah, I also don't ever take along the evil duo. It's always me and lil' sis against the world!!

Damnit, we should have received Infinity Engine games for Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Dark Sun...

Remember how wonderful it was in BG1 to finally get a simple normal sword that didn’t break all of the time? Not even a magic sword, just a sword that didn’t have contaminated iron in it. Talk about building up slowly. No lightning swords, or static electricity swords, or whatever - just a normal sword felt so satisfying. And when you finally fought someone (not just found in a crate) with a +1 (or +2!!!) weapon and kept it for loot, wow, that was satisfying.

ha! One of those things I really like in that game - carrying a spare weapon, not really understanding how and why weapons break. It was especially cool to see as I played BG1 after BG2. I am stil not sure if the system was completely scrapped or if BG2 showers players in so many magical items from the get go that I just never experienced it.

"I ain't got a care for the politics and crap goin' on. Take all the metal away too, for all I care. Don't need it to hunt. Don't need it to kill. Don't need it to smell them ogres neither. Take my advice... er... mac, keep yer weapons ready." - Bub Snikt

Normal weapons were only breaking in BG1.
It was a consequence of the iron crisis, intended by the Iron Throne.

Neat!

Still play BG1 & 2. Playing it now because BG3 (to me) is such a huge disappointment in the DnD sense. It is visually dated, though some (like me) would say it is "classic". It is immensely playable. And like Solasta and even NWN, they come closer to creating a TT feel on a CRPG. I think that is the thing that made them so popular. Most of the market back then was likely TT players, too.

These days I have no idea how large the CRPG or even CRPG-adjacent or TT cross-over market. I am sure Larian thinks he is trying to address a larger player base than TT players, which is why so much of TT feel and DnD 5E is easily sacrificed.

The ONLY thing that drew me to this game was BG3 and DnD. If it is not that I won't play it beyond the EA. I have no doubts it will be successful enough. I am sure I am a minority (I usually am in most things anyway). There are enough DnD-ish games out there and I don't play them either. DOS1 was fun enough. DOS 2 got bogged down and I stopped playing half way through. If that is Larian's idea of "Epic" I don't see me playing all the way through BG3 either, so I'll save my time and money. hell, I still couldn't tell you the plot to DOS1. I can for BG1 & 2, NWN, POE, and (now) Solasta. I even keep forgetting about the Tadpoles in BG3. TBF, that's probably more my age showing!

But I enjoy reading others' comments! And this is probably how I'll get a sense of any improvement on the game. There are people here who have higher expectations than I do, so if they are satisfied, chances are I will be, too.

Carry on!
Joe

Yessir!! And that +1 sword was soooooo precious when you finally got it.

And finding that Ring of Protection in a tree knot?! What an amazing feeling *that* was!

Played BG2 a lot, back in the day, including TOB of course. Couldn't really stomach BG1, never fancied save-scumming due to one-shot kills. Wrote my own character' AI scripts, mostly for adaptive melee/ranged switching.

Even participated, briefly, in a small but very ambitious BG2 mod project (not really a mod, more like custom campaign on BG2 binaries), created a script editor IDE (with compiler integration and syntax highlight, no less!) and made custom location maps, using those awkward community-developed tools (now, that was a bloody challenge). Only, that was 20 years ago.

Eventually I was able to upgrade my PC so that it could run NWN, moved on and never looked back.

It's a great game, the storytelling and immersion are still top-notch, even though the rest of it didn't age exactly well. But, I can only playing through the same story so much. Plus, RTwP isn't my cup of tea in the slightest.

Ravenloft people. I can't believe Bioware didn't jump on the opportunity to make a dark, moody and very atmospheric game in the Barovia region of Ravenloft with Strahd as the main antagonist.

Well I am pretty confident you guys are going to get D&D video games in some of these newly-resurrected settings in the next few years. WotC will be releasing at least one new game every year, and they won't all be in the Realms. So we may not get every single one of those other settings, but certainly some of them.

I'm betting the game being made by OtherSide Entertainment is a Ravenloft game.

Never heard of them...Is it just a guess? What makes you think it's a Ravenloft game that is in developpement? I just looked them up and couldn't find anything

So far they are just responsible of Underworld Ascendant, the ATROCIOUS attempt to give one of my favorite games ever (Ultima Underowolrd) a proper spiritual successor that turned into a complete unmitigated disaster.

It won't be the same. Infinity Engine forever!

I grew up playing BG 1&2 (omg I was so glad to not have 6 discs with the second game), Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2, Icewind Dale (late to the game actually for that), and the Divinity series.

One of the games had a tribute to a person on the box or manual, and there are several people who have died or simply moved on in careers since those games came out. I almost feel it's a good thing to go a different direction. The Bhaalspawn concept was tough if you're a good character -- your heritage is eeeeevil. And damn, if I don't admire some of those companions who joined with you anyway.

Because it's been so long and so many other games came out in the D&D WoC Bioware lineup, I don't think I would like a direct clone/continuation. I actually really like what they're doing so far and have no complaints. It's as if my two favorite video games had a child together -- not really exactly like either parent but you can see what makes it meld. Divinity games were full of snark and humorous lore to be found and had large maps that made for endless exploring. I hope I can have a house in BG3. Not opposed to, errr, evicting the tennant....

I personally found the day/night cycle a pain in the rear but I don't think it has to be absent. The exhaustion mechanic is part of d&d so whatever but I hated that I had to rest every time I left town. Makes sense in realism, but irritating in a game where mobs that give nearly 0XP spawn constantly at night.

I really liked the diverse characters, but I felt there wasn't a good thief so I had to play one to avoid traps and locked stuff. I pretty much kept the same party, but that's because I played the game so much that I know who is useful. Dynaheir was not. She died tripping UP the stairs. Branwen and Xan are forever in my heart and I miss them terribly. Imoen is that kid sister you can't get rid of, but she's iconic so I guess she can stay (if only she stayed a damn thief). Aerie had an amazing kit that made her spells powerful...if. she. lives. Which is where Minsc + anyone who raises dead comes in....

Oh another thing that I HATED -- main character dies and you have to load. You are not the center of the universe. Bhaal will replace you. Or your party members can resurrect/raise dead. Or a temple. Really, this should not have been the way.

In a series of posts and media comments about a year ago, WotC revealed that two new D&D games are in the works, by Hidden Path Entertainment, and OtherSide Entertainment. The Hidden Path team subsequently sent out some tweets and posts confirming they were working on a third-person open-world AAA D&D game. OtherSide, however, has not said anything in public at all. But based on the kind of games OtherSide has done, I am just guessing that IF (a big if) their D&D game is for real, then it could be a Ravenloft game.

So much to say and could write a tome. But no one has time for that so . . .
Still play from time to time.

1. Praise for the engine. My toons do what I want them to do. (or did before Beamdog inexplicably broke a functioning trail finding system - but its still the best)

Of the successors, the Solasta variant of unity does the best of replicating the easy of use of the infinity engine but it's still not as good.

2. Praise for respect for rules. Very faithful implementation of 2nd rules and the homebrew rules that Bioware implements were exactly the same ones I used when I DMed (no racial limits on levels etc)

3. Praise for the replay value / non linearity. After you get out of candlekeep / chataeu inrenicus the world is open. You can follow the main plot or just forget about it for days. Weeks. A month.

4. Praise for the amount of content. Bioware tried to stuff every rulebook and every supplement into the game. I don't track hours but it probably takes me a month to complete an entire playthough.

5. Wuv, true wuv. BG2 invented the romance system. What's not to love?! Well, obviously, Anomen doesn't deserve love but otherwise . . .

6. Praise for banter. The banter felt organic. No predictable ground triggers, very few "we'll talk after the quest" moments. Instead we had a timer and randomizer - randomly out of the blue someone would say "I'm ready to talk now". Made the conversations feel more like real ones and added replay value. Of the successors, WOTR the best job of randomizing the camp dialogues. Again, adds replay value when you don't know that a conversation is going to happen on day 5 of adventuring.

Also big part of why Minsc became so popular. Why did Minsc just randomly yell something about hamsters? He's cray cray, that's why . . .

Well said.

I loved playing around the inventory. Checking out items, moving stuff around, reading the descriptions...With that <restrictive> slot design felt like...I actually had an adventure bag with me lol. IMMERSION Larian. IMMERSION.



Now its just pointless items overload everywhere so you need a <streamlined> DULL <smartphone> inventory UI. Its efficient, yes, but its soulless and forgettable.

Man, how much I would love that. I really like the Divinity engine used for BG3/D:OS, but I think it's an area where Larian could improve. You don't have to look further than Obsidian: even if PoE1 was a bit bland, I really think that PoE2 had one of the best range of mood/atmosphere/color palette and it translated really well to how you feel about the game. My biggest hope would be to see a Ravenloft game made with the PoE engine and 5e rules.

I dunno ... what i see here is tons of useless "wannabe artwork frame" shit ... and ridiculously small inventory that would be filled in BG3 in ... duno, aproximately 12 seconds. :-/

That probably says more the item overload in BG3 than anything else.

I would have liked to see an updated version of the old Inventory personally. It also forced the player to think about what they truly needed to keep or carry rather than being able to walk around with several weapons and suits of armour like in BG3, let alone dozens of forks or apples whatever else.

They could have updated it by having subsections within the new inventory, one pouch for food, one for potions etc. rather than having visual eyesore Candy Crush lookalike. I appreciate the would have meant more clicking and more inventory windows but I would think it might be a little easier to manage visually.

Sure, because BG3 has tons of useless garbage, while not adding anything worthwhile to the system. BG1&2 inventory was simpler and better for it. As to inventory it fits everything into one screen: equipment with multiple loadouds, relevant stats, character's doll, and full inventory, and items on the ground. Fully functional and comprehensive.

Ragnarok is on fire today

No kidding: BG3 throws a LOT of vendor trash the player's way. That said, in Baldur's Gate 2, a Bag of Holding is eventually obtainable.

I'm not sure but the "artwork frame" and the negative space you might be talking about is a result of the game being run at a resolution far exceeding what was expected.

As for inventory management, that used to be a thing before everyone's belt became a pocket plane.

I'll quibble with mr_planescape on one thing, I don't think the current inventory in BG3 is efficient in anyway, it's more like Diablo than Baldur's Gate.

To be fair, every game in the BG series (1, 2, and now 3) has had atrocious inventory management/UI. Inventory management in BG1/2 is like trying to fit a castle's worth of personal possessions into a shoebox apartment. In BG3 it's more akin to having a junk yard that occasionally randomizes object locations to search through.


Inventory space is always an issue in BG1, and especially BG2 when you are littered with well-designed, useful magical items. My character may have graduated beyond using Daystar or Ilbratha as my main weapon, but you betcha I'm keeping them around for the mirror image and sunray castings.

The containers introduced in SoA and TOB helps with the spacing, and there's a reason why some of the most popular BG2 mods are more containers and item stacks, but searching through them is even worst. Needing to open up and scroll through multiple bags of holding or scroll/potion/ammo cases to find the 1 item you actually need is NOT a good time.

By today's standards, the classic BG2 is missing a lot of things you'd expect in a UI - i.e. not being able to see how items affect your stats in the Inventory (i.e. damage, thac0), any form of item compare, etc. For all the questionable new content and mechanical changes the EE brought, they've actually improved on this quite a bit. At least there's a decently accurate damage calculator and Thac0 indicator ON the inventory screen now. Whereas before you had to manually switch over to the Records screen to see that.


Now after the Patch 7 update, BG3's biggest inventory sin continues to be how incredibly janky it feels to move items around, and the fact that it's not well designed to manage the amount of items you can accumulate. Also, it's multi-player-first design of inventories (most noticeable on things like the vendor interaction screen), really drags it down in a single player experience.

BG3 definitely has the most optional clutter of all the games - since any interactable object can be added to the inventory. This on its own isn't the worst thing in the world - the issue is the inventory control lacks any features and options to help you move around large amounts of objects easily. You accidentally press the "loot all" button a few times too many, and now your inventory has TONS of trash that you have to remove one-by-one. No way to select multiple items. Not easy way to remove from inventory in 1 click/action.

IMO, they really need to add the scroll, potion cases, etc from BG1/2 to BG3. Specific item type containers that helps the players keep organized - not just random bags you can toss any random thing into.

I thought it would be something like that ... but was not sure.
KotOR had simmilar "solution".

But even if i ignore that huge wide frame around ... i still cant help the feeling that there is many unused space. :-/

+1. Custom backpacks aren't the same as dedicated [consumable] cases.

With a backpack, items only automatically go into that backpack IF:
a.) you already have at least 1 of that item in the backpack, AND
b.) the correct character picks it up.

The former encourages you to never use the last of any given item, and the latter encourages you to maintain 1 backpack per resource type per character (which means you now are discouraged from using the last 4 of any given consumable). Or you have to constantly manage who's picking up items/shifting items between characters to get them out of your main inventory and into a backpack.

Plus, obviously, dedicated [consumable] cases will look visually distinct = easier inventory management.

I agree so much with this too !
And I'd add a quiver for ammunitions ! In BG1/2 quivers were "items slots", which wouldn't make sense in BG3. A proper quiver in which you can put all your ammunitions would be so cool.
And an icon on the hotbar with the quiver. If you click on it, a popup opens and you can select any amunition you have to use them (normal or special). Somekind of "ammunition toggle" so you don't have to put all your arrows on your hotbar and you don't have to go in your inventory everytime you want to use a special ammo.

I'm glad that Larian decided to fuse their own style with Forgotten Realms.

I never played BG2, but I have played BG1, and I hate it with a passion. I hate clunky controls, where you can't have a thief check for traps and sneak at the same time, I hate Tarnesh at the Friendly Arm's Inn, I hate the chess level in Durlag's Tower, I hate random encounters with web traps that just turn your entire group off for about 5 mins of irl time. I didn't use any guides for the game, and learned to deal with every challenge with minimal losses, but it didn't feel like a victory. It felt like learning to live with a serious case of hemorrhoids. I also am not fond of the fact that nobody cares about your race/class, and the awful, juvenile dialogue with about 5 instances in the entire game where your choice affects the outcome (yes, that includes the Marl dialogue).

I'm no stranger to games that don't hold your hand much. I'm a huge fan of Morrowind, VtMB, both KotORs and many other old titles. When I play them, I feel that these games genuinely want to pull me into their atmosphere and provide reasonable chanllenge. And when I play BG1, it feels like the game wants to fuck with me just for the sake of it. To make the journey as bland, tedious and harrowing as possible. I hope to God that BG3 is nothing like at least one of it's predecessors.

Inventory management in BG:3 is probably the worst thing about the EA for me, whether it's selling things to the merchant, moving things around various characters, moving things to and from the camp chest, the auto-sorting system and the tabs (more tabs please). It's enough to make you not really want to pick up things after a while, and not for the right reasons, like a weight/value/space calculus, but just so you don't have to deal with the UI.

Considering there are still buggy things with the merchant menus and the auto-sort, maybe there's a bigger overhaul coming.

That's not really true though, is it, unless you try to keep every weapon, even if you found a far better replacement. I don't remember BG1 having many weapons worth keeping (though, I admit, I didn't play BG1 too many times) and BG2 very early introduced bag of holding, so you could carry whatever you wanted. I never manage overfill my inventory before that. The only real criticism of BG2 inventory I have are containers for potions and scrolls - yeah they work fine, meaning they contain my collection of scrolls and potions, but once there, I almost never ever use them. Too much out of sight.


Yeah, Larian's hasn't been great with secondary mechanics - they are too complicated and too tedious to interact with.

I have been thinking about it, while playing Weird West today. Also a lot of items. Also a lot of junk. Companions to whom you can give stuff to carry. A horse in whose saddles you can leave loot. When shopping you can access al those inventory easily. Minimum hassle, maximum fun.

Pay more attention to this stuff, Larian. Good control/UI can really sour the experience.

Baldur's Gate 3 would be fortunate to run its tongue along the underside of Baldur's Gate's boots.

Rag the nag, I am almost done with your BG2 mod! Be patient!

And what I see is a non imaginative newbi wannabe UI art style in BG3's inventory. Actually, there is very little art-style. Just a couple of boxes to fill to the gut with worthless crap.

I view unused <negative> space in artwork as a HUGE positive. And I am sure many graphic designers would also concur. But of course you don't! I get it.
You must HATE Tatami rooms (but of course you don't!!! I get it.) Its useless "wannabe artwork frame# shit I guess. FILL IT WITH STUFF!!
So there, heres a Tatami room for you to Nag at:

Woops sorry, too much unused space, here:



Oh wait...sorry. The way Rag likes it :

To anwser OP's question, I still play them yes. And they are indeed dated.

Mostly in terms of game design (but theyre old games so kinda understandable), visuals (old engine. Hard to flaw them for that) and the version of dnd theyre based on (also hard to flaw the devs for that. It was current when they made it). The former is found in the pretty linear story telling and fixed location for enemy placements. You often have multiple ways to fix problems (well sometimes, not always) but at the end of the day alot of the encounters always happen in the same manner. If you played the game onnce or twice though its hard not to prepare for the fights that you know are coming which can make them easier then they should be. Visuals is kinda hard to flaw them for speaking from the future. The enhanced editions also kind of fixed a part of that. Its pretty visually appealing now. On the subject of editon, we play 5e now and bg1 and 2 were based on 2nd ed (or version 2.5? Dont recall) which shows its age. Concepts like Thac0 are very dated and while not that super hard to grasp (the lower, the better) can be confusing for new players.

That said, it isent all bad. The pathing AI is in some areas better then more modern games (if you can believe that), the targetting AI is pretty top notch and will abuse any downside in your defenses that it can find. Mostly beause magic is INSANELY overpowered in this version of dnd. But still. The game reacts to your gameplan. Brought summons? If they have the spell, they will insant-gib those. Have defenses? They will quikly dispell those. The game doesent hold back at all! And it is infact this aspect of the game that I love so much. It is brutal! And the feeling and power you gain when you manage to beat the (often optional) boss fights is amazing. Even in the worst case youre still walking away with a metric ton of XP, some coin and if you are lucky some magical items. You rarely find yourself finding the encounters not rewarding.

What I loved about the game was:
-Interparty banter. People have personalities and some of them clash. Have some people in your party that hate eachother and they WILL start killing eachother. Some companions are couples, and you cant have 1 without the other. Can be a pain in the ass, but it fits. The bigger parties also kind of counteract the latter downside.
-Dialogue: the options player get in conversation are insane. And imho a staple for what rpg's should be. Sometimes it comes down to what you say to a person. Are you a dick? Are you kind? Are you mocking them? Are you taunting them? And at other times you can actively deflate an upcoming combat. Other times you can actually cause fighting to erupt instead. You can lie. You can be evasive. You can be straight to the point and blunt or you can as agressive as you want to be. In most cases you have choice in how you approach dialogue. You are allowed to ROLE PLAY your character! And I love it!
-Story. Although some parts of the story can be quite linear and obvious. At other times it is the complete opposite. Want to find the bandit camp? Unless you find the proper information (IIRC you have to keep your 1 lead alive to interrogate him and that can fail) you will only have a vague idea of where to look. And that enforces exploration and adventure!
-The world feels large and alive. Although alot of npc's have fixed locations. Come to the towns and you will find alot of them moving about. Even if theyre just moving around abit randomly it gives the feeling that you just arrived in a town where people do their own thing. They have their own things to worry about. Talk to random npc's and what they say will be reflected in their standing in life. If theyre a far,er theyre worried about crops and maybe the iron crisis but they wont comment on things they realisticly wouldnt. It all fits. Its immersive. Sometimes people will have offhand comments or gossip that are actual leads and other times its just that. Rumors and not actually important.
-Optional content. In BG1 the areas you NEED to be in to follow the story is like..... 1/5 of the map? All of the other areas are completly optional. Theres still stuff going around in those areas and npc companions you can easily miss in those areas as well. Realisticly you will be doing some adventuring sooner or later. Maybe because a companion has something to do. Minsc for example needs to go to the gnoll fortress. Which is completly tucked away in a corner somewhere. While you travel there you move through like 3-4 areas and find that most areas have something going on. And even the areas that dont got things like a xvart village or something.
-it felt like proper dnd. The devs had respect for the source material and it showed!

I still have them installed and dip into them now and again. There IS something very special about BG1 and 2 and I think its a combination of good writing (for the most part) and as a few others have mentioned, the size of the world. I would also however agree that they have not aged well and I doubt I'd ever do a full play through of them again. BG3 is the new age and I have to say I am loving it so far.

It took 18 years before I learned that the chest behind Winthrop in the Candlekeep Inn is trapped.
1 .... 8 ..... y .... e .... a .... r .... s


The tools for modding the game are what made BG interesting for me in my later years.

I like this a lot.

They honestly need to have more "subcategories" toggles on various things in the UI, in general.

I.e. currently trying to throw a weapon in BG3 opens the ENTIRE inventory in the tiny UI space for you to scroll through, when they should at least auto-separate dedicated throwing weapons vs. any random object, and make things easy to search in some way.

I played BG1 and BG2 both with my brother at home cooperative play through LAN connection. Long time ago and you do not need to be adult to play them.
I have met my brother this year and his plan is to buy BG3 when it releases (year 2023 99% sure I believe) and play it with me.

This sligthly more modern remix version I like fairly much:

The technological progress has made the old games awful.

It's like anything, sure I could live a thousand years ago (No I can't I would have died due to my genetics, but some people could) and been just fine, but there is no way I would want to live in the past, I don't even want to live in the time I have, because the future will bring improvements.

Music made by past generation is no different than music made tomorrow, because our hearing and understanding of sound doesn't evolve, with computers we haven't even figured out how to make the perfect user interface yet or the level of graphics.

I loved BG1 and BG2 in there time and day, but they are cringe worthy when trying to play them after having experienced the progress since then. Technology does not age well.

A pox on whoever started this "cringe" meme; everything and anything is apparently "cringe" worthy. Constitutions are weakened and sensibilities are excessively sensitive.

lol

As if millions of DMA [Doctors of Musical Arts] roared out in laughter

Fun vid. I've never used the dark arts of trap spamming but it's fun to see in action anyway.

The only BG game I've actually replayed multiple times so far is BG1 (which I had bought shortly after the initial release).

I tried re-doing BG2 again some time ago, but whilst a good game with superior technicals and quest design, it reminded me that everybody seems to think about the 2nd chapter when gushing about it most of the time. The entire middle section is a fairly linear combat heavy dungeon romp not lending itself as well to replayability imo, which technically, Icewind Dale also did better, as far as I am concerned. Throne Of Bhaal in terms of structure / gameplay I generally didn't much like even back in the day, despite the excellent wrap-up of the adventure at the end.

The following is less about replayability, but more a prefence: To me BG2 also marked the beginning of Bioware moving away from recreating a TT adventure feel and going into a more "interactive movie" kind of direction, as not only did they introduce more traditional cutscenes (as far as the Infinity Engine could handle them), proabably in parts influenced by JRPGs back then, which provided very different experiences back then when compared to contemporary Western CRPGs. They also got rid of "downtimes" / "travel" or anything in between adventures/quests, plus you exclusively find new locations on the map solely via getting a quest. Locations that also are chock full of "points of interest", which mostly seem to serve the sole purpose of advancing the quest's story most of the time. No more houses, locations or huts in a forest / settlement forest existing because they may just do that, existing.

More recently, an experience that oft reminded me of BG1 was Kingdom Come Deliverance, in particular as to its exploration, albeit in a different first-person solo character format. I don't expect many developers to recreate a similar feel outside maybe of smaller indies, as a majority deemed that a bit borderline "boring" even back in the day apparently -- the devs of KCD were also aware of that they may "bore" players with their world design. Currently pondering about whether Wartales may also fit that bill.


RE: Inventory management, it's funny reading about it here. But BG et all still plays tons nicer in that regard than say DOS1 ever did. In terms of inventory management DOS is absolutely painful to play, even if you don't loot everything dropping to the ground. Despite the years in between those games, the amount of clicking in DOS required is absolutely bonkers insane, even for something as simple as swapping items between characters (which in BG, is but like two clicks). Part of that is due to the optional coop, but not all of it.

But then I only found out later that people in the IE games in general would loot literally any random crap (as enemies would naturally drop everything they would carry), having to travel between looting location and the next shop over and over again because of the limited inventory space. It was pretty clear to me early on that this was done for "simulational reasons" back in the day, rather than a looting requirement for (even more) money to be had. Like, why shouldn't everybody drop what they were carrying? This was a CRPG proper, not some hack&slash Diablo clone, where frantic arcade-style looing and leveling was intended to be the core gameplay loop. Speaking of which, it was pretty refreshing for Pathfinder to introduce another layer on top of that. Whilst you have huge pockets, carry weight can still cause various nerfs, including travel speed (with time being a ressource to ponder about in general, rather than the game world freezing in an endless loop just waiting for the player to complete every single task).

Naturally also something not liked by everyone, but meh.

The IE games in general, whilst dated, play far nicer than what their age suggests in general, which in a huge part is because of their RTS influence, a general control scheme that doesn't get much more easy/intuitive on keyboard+mouse in particular -- there's a good reason why there were so many RTS clones. Go a generation of Western RPGs back, or even two (Ultima 7, 8 and the like), and the difference is striking.

Rofl alright then. You hate Baldurs gate with a passion yet love....... wait for it.....Morrowind...?!? Really?!?! What does this have to do with anything? Apart for SORTA being an RPG, the similarities end there lol.
So basically you despise isometric rpg games and love 3d open world hack N slash games.
I can come up with dozens of reasons why Baldur's gate is BETTER than Morrowind. And hundreds more that BG2 is even better.
BG has clunky controls...give me a break. And Morrowind doesnt???! Its a UI nightmare. A dialogues nightmare. A bug infested AI nightmare. Pointless <RPG> abilities. Shallow combat. etc etc....Apart from the 3D world to explore part, Im not sure what Morrowind DOES better?

Yet another individual that slights the older Baldur's Gate titles in favor of the new Frankenstein's Monster. I guarantee you this effort by Larian is going to age poorly by comparison.

"The following is less about replayability, but more a prefence: To me BG2 also marked the beginning of Bioware moving away from recreating a TT adventure feel and going into a more "interactive movie" kind of direction, as not only did they introduce more traditional cutscenes (as far as the Infinity Engine could handle them), proabably in parts influenced by JRPGs back then, which provided very different experiences back then when compared to contemporary Western CRPGs. They also got rid of "downtimes" / "travel" or anything in between adventures/quests, plus you exclusively find new locations on the map solely via getting a quest. Locations that also are chock full of "points of interest", which mostly seem to serve the sole purpose of advancing the quest's story most of the time. No more houses, locations or huts in a forest / settlement forest existing because they may just do that, existing."

WOW, this is an excellent explanation how BG I differs from BG II. A lot of people felt this way, but few have been able put it into words so well. BG I had a relatively open world, where you did not have to follow the main road on that first map. Exploration simply for its own sake was mostly lost in BG II, in favor of a tighter story-line.

I enjoyed most of BG2 with only couple exceptions and did multiple runs of it, but I do agree that replayability isn't its strong point - neither it is in BG1 I don't think. Areas are less structured, but I never felt BGs offered a nice variety of approaching the situation, nor had much reactivity to our character. Replayability for me came from different party compositions, and content being enjoyable enough to warrant returning to it throughout the years.

Absolutely. I also thought that BG2 was better for it, as BG1 just wasn't systemic enough to result in anything interesting. I see it as Bioware trying to create TT adventure simulator in BG1, then looked at worked and what didn't and created a better sequel. There are of course those lovely small touches in BG1 that I missed in the sequel, but overall the trade off was well worth it. Success of BG2 also shaped the company going forward, with exceptiong of NWN1 which approached TT simulator from a different angle. That's pretty much why playing WItcher3 game me vibes of playing BG2 for the first time in early 2000s, more so then any actual BG-wanna-be.

That's of course my personal perception - one thing I learned in recent years, is that people liked those games for variety of reasons. Pathfinders have their audience, and to me they miss every good thing about BG1&2.

I agree that there is a wide difference between the more open world and random traveling in BG 1 versus the more focused outdoor areas and quest in BG 2 and that it is a matter of preference which you like more. There are a lot of people who prefer BG 1 over BG 2 - and that is fine, I am on the edge myself.

But I want to propose that this difference is not due to them moving away from a TT adventure, but instead of them properly adjusting the scope of the campaign as the characters become powerful and wealthy. While in BG 1 much of the outdoor content could be right out of a random encounter table, it just doesn't make (speaking from an immersion point of view) sense for a high-level party to just randomly stumble across interesting adventures by trekking through the wilderness of Amn. You'd be much more likely to stumble across another Xvart village than across a dragon's lair, or something else level appropriate. That is why high-level characters in 2nd edition D&D are supposed to have strongholds, fame, wealth, followers and property per the written rules - and as you can see, true to TT, BG 2 did implement those. In terms of adventure what happens is that you get sought out for challenges beyond the capabilities of low-level parties.

This kind of progression is not unusual for D&D computer games either - see for example NWN 2 where you start with a travel adventure to the city but end up managing a keep and only going on important quests at the end. Even within Baldur's Gate 1 you already see this progression start. If you don't do this, you often end up with a game where you fight level 2 wolves at the start and level 60 wolves at the end. Or you level-scale and have the bandits all equipped with extremely valuable daedric weapons as in Oblivion.

In conclusion, this change of scope - whether per your preference or not - is entirely TT appropriate. In my own P&P games most of them stopped before reaching this level range. The ones which didn't, either skipped over a lot of mundane travelling like BG 2 does, put you in special environments where everything is more exotic and dangerous (e.g., other planes) or focused on social interactions while traveling.

Regarding the cutscenes, it is a different story - but I think outside of the somewhat annoying dream sequences they never took control from your character away for long.

CD Projekt were hugely influenced by Bioware in general, in particular their subsequent even more "cinematic" games, so that makes total sense. (They also see games as sort of movie-like, which personally I've come to grow tired of in more recent years, as it's become such a "lazy" trend, at least from my perception. I think games can do a whole lotta more than aping merely movies -- the industry isn't merely aping movies, it's aping Hollywood blockbuster movies to boot, which narrows things down even more.).

(Mechanically, there still is very little in Witcher (3) that compares to any of the BGs, naturally. With its barebones character system, progression and the like, It's pretty much RPG-light, if any, but then that's probably as much a deliberate design decision as much as a a commercial one dictated by huge budgets: You can't afford to merely cater to core RPG fans anymore if you go that huge -- which naturally has also been the story of Bethesda et all for like, I don't know how long). As a consequence, whilst I can see why it's that popular, I found my time with Witcher to be pretty underwhelming for both of those reasons (the combat I didn't like to boot very much, and the quests sorta played themselves outside of combat -- a thing that was subsequently "streamlined" from the very first game also, apparently).

The RPG genre in particular to me is pretty much lacking games in between the larger than life blockbusters (which aim to go even bigger with every new release/sequel) and the Kickstarters in general outside a few exceptions, but that's probably because of its history, considering how many former publishers / developers died around the 2000s. That may change though in the coming years, who knows. So long I'm glad that Kickstarter and the like revived it all for me.

I am doing my homework now.

BG3 is a remarkable upgrade in the graphics department that was long overdue.

As for the rest? They are the little engine that could. Little feet in BIG shoes!


Bio-ware was in its prime and making some of the best RPGs, like EVER. Larian is certainly starting to mature in the story telling department, again, this is their best title yet.

I can't shake the add I saw of them looking for a writer that thinks like them. They seriously need a rogue on their team to develop in parallel with them and bring some fresh thinking.

Fresh thinking that does its homework and looks backwards and forwards at the same time.

So the graphics and engine are dated but the game is not. It is still fun to play even though I have played it too many times to be surprised by anything. It has been long enough for an "OH yea!".

It is much more alive and breathing than the bg3 world. The writing is a class ahead...I am still impressed with the dreams that are described after each step in the journey...pure genius.

The villains are even more polite before you kill them.

Great Humor (all characters).

"You point, I punch!" "The squeaky wheel get's the kick" ...gotta love Minsk.

There is quality everywhere!


Now Larian doesn't have to be Bioware (nor should they try). They should however try to check certain boxes that people expect (well voiced here on the forums) and it should feel like Faerun.

What is it that makes it feel that way? Well it has always been an other worldly fantasy setting. Generally medieval.
There are some minor 4th wall breaking jokes, but never any current real world issues creeping in.

People want to leave the real world behind.

Now Larian has very much intrigued me with the Drow city I can't reach.

Me hopes the Drow are Drowven! The Deurgar need some work! They made them out to be terrorists...faux pas (To much real world) tsk tsk.

Where in the real world do you find underground-dwelling evil midgets?

Where in the real world do you find underground-dwelling evil midgets?

Where else?

There are several entrances to the subterranean realm...which is quite a bit of content.

At least two involve the leap of faith feather-fall method.

The others can be found with google or by looking in basementy type areas.

Pearls before the swine.