Just trying to build an more or less comprehensive list of meaningful changes we got so far, so I'd like for people to list some suggestions.

To be clear, I'd like to avoid listing stuff like "Added one line of dialogue to X" or similar, otherwise we could just copy-paste here the detailed changelog of all patches so far and call it a day.

I'm also not referring strictly to the addition of new content (classes, races, etc). I'm referring more to systemic changes (mechanics and rules, UI and so on) that are (presumably) going to have an effect across the whole game.


On top of my mind I can think a few:

- Food as a source of healing is gone, and it became part of a resource called "Supplies" consumed during long rest.
- No more backstab advantage
- No height advantage/disadvantage system, replaced by a flat +2 bonus on higher ground.
- No more "Jump as a free disengage".
- The "dirt and blood" system on characters count as a systemic change, I guess.
- Party-wide automated jump on followers, group chain/unchain and group stealth.

...And I'm already out of idea that left a mark, which is why I'm asking for suggestions.

P.S. Just to be transparent about it: I'm NOT trying to draw any conclusion from this, neither in favor of against the developers. So if you plan to jump in just to go on a tirade about how EA sucks OR how much more grateful we should be for what we got, please spare us.
I'm just trying to put together a convenient recap for reference.

- Enemy AI has been updated
- Throwing mechanic has been added
- Surfaces have been toned down a bit
- Many original 2 handed weapons (spear, staff) now have a 1 handed wielding option

Oh, I've been thinking about doing just this as well, at some point. So I'll happily join the effort !

Note 1 : I'm currently in a working/forum visit mode that means I visit somewhat frequently but don't have hours to spare. So I'll just jot down things, mostly from memory. I will correct and complement things later. Basically, this post will get edited.

Note 2 : as Tuco suggested, this is a list of the changes that we consider to be meaningful. Everyone cares about different things, but the goal is still to aim for the main things. (In a way, this is also a way to see what the players did and do care about.)

Note 3 : I'm personally interested in keeping track of which change came with which Patch. Ideally this is listed in the Patch notes but, on the one hand, I don't have all the time I wish I had right now so I won't go and flip through the patch notes and, on the other hand, I know that not everything was documented in the patch notes. So my list will be sorted (primarily ?) by Patch.


Patch 3.

• Movement and Party Controls : Follow-On-Jumps. The whole Group will follow on a jump.

Patch 4 (Druid).

• (Can't remember or can't think of something right now.)
• Actions UI > Spell Upcasting : the upcasted versions of a spell no longer take an additional icon in the Hotbar.

Patch 5 (Systems).

• Backstab rule : gone.
• High Ground rule : changed to +2 instead of granting Advantage.
• Disengage separated from Jump and costs an Action (I don't remember if this was properly listed in patch notes).
• Ability Check UI upgraded : it is now easier to cast buffs during conversations.
• Movement and Party Controls : hotkey to Group All/Ungroup All. (Undocumented.)
• (P5??) Actions UI : revised Hotbar.

Patch 6 (Sorcerer).

• (P6??) Abilities such as Battle Master Maneuvers : now consumes your resources (Superiority Dice) only in case of a hit, as it should. (Undocumented.)
• (P6??) Movement and Party Controls : hotkey available for Jump. Previously it was only Hide. Other actions (such as Dash) still don't have them.

Patch 7 (Barbarian).

• (Can't remember or can't think of something right now.)

Patch 8 (Bard+Gnome).

• Spellbook UI > Spell Upcasting : upcasted versions of a Level N spell are no longer listed in the list of spells for Level N+1 and above.
• Combat AI and speed : Swarm AI.
• Rules > Class Abilities : Expertise added (for Rogues and Bards).
• Conversation UI : Detect Though can now be used during the conversation. We no longer need to pre-cast it (or ignore the spell altogether).

Edit : ok, strike out the part about memory. I've checked the Patch 8 Notes quickly. More edits to come.

- Swam AI
- Location-based camp sites instead of everything in the forest.
- Companions doing more than just always standing there during dialogues.
- Made the UI represent a level up more than it initially was (a bunch of players didn't realize they had leveled up and how to do that early on)
- Several iterations on how spells are presented in UX, consolidating spells to drop-downs for spell levels instead of requiring multiple slots for the same spell on actionbar (still need more iterations IMO)
- Search filters for items, weapons and abilities
- Tooltips and how info is presented
- Strength requirements for throwing stuff
- Backend of how light affects hit-chances
- (Unsure about this one), limitations to how far you can free-cam away from the characters
- Enemy portraits displaying more information like if they have active concentration
- How statuses are displayed on player UI, with hoverable tooltips to see what they do
- Less surfaces
- Weighed dice, if that counts. Technically an addition rather than change, but can be considered a change possibly because of being due to feedback
- Making lockpicking/trap disarms be something you roll for, and not automatic
- Tooltip-pinning
- Changes to dialogue history window and increased length of it
- Inventories being lockable in multiplayer, so other players can't tamper with yours
- Removed food's ability to heal - Became food supplies for long rest instead
- Encumbrance got three tiers of progression, the system was binary and more unreadable to some players early on
- More experience reward opportunities if playing as a pacifist
- Can target allies/enemies with spells by clicking portraits as well as their unit directly



Feel free to include/ignore anything that doesn't fit what you're going for, I've just glanced through my feedback docs since release and noted down a few things I recognized at a glance from memory, that could maybe fit (?) what you're trying to summarize. Looking forward to lurk it and see where the buck lands! 😸

Narration changed from first person to to the current style

Swarm ai

Saving Shadow

Fireblot going back to d10 with no fire pool

Oh I think additions totally count. I mean, intuitively, to me, the list is meant to be about "what has changed/improved since EA started", and additions ideally improve the game, so they qualify. More technically, an addition is a change : where a feature was in the state "non-existent" (e.g. weighted dice : absent), it is now in the state "exists".

It's good to have something like this. Recently posting on the forum can feel like...whatever the opposite of a 'victory lap' is.

• Whether you like it or not, they've made the chained portrait control a little tighter since the beginning.
• In that vein, the party will, on its own, try to jump to follow you
• The combat AI has been tuned and retuned, I think they reached a point were they had to make it stupider
• Probably the biggest impact on my personal games, the Detect Thoughts revamp, as well as changing a number of utility spells to work without concentration
• Not really an EA thing but they've made the game prettier every patch, sometimes it's gotten too 'pretty' for some
• For the first time I realized they made tadpole uses; once per long rest, I don't know when they changed that.
• There have been some revamps to the character sheet/inventory unlike a lot of things, I'm not sure they're finished with it. Sorting and a search bar are nice to have working.
• They toned down the surface effects of spells. I think.

I'm sure there's more I can't think of

Overall, besides the horrific graphical changes and misc bugs, the game is shaping up in a good direction.

The Bards and instruments get an A+.

The toned down surface effects of spells (and frequency of mobs having surface effect potions) is a big difference I noted having come back after skipping patches 5-7. Makes a very large difference to a number of encounters in a very positive way.

Did I miss it? Has no one mentioned the removal of OP Barrelmancy? Remember when ogres threw barrels onto the grove walls and goblins sprang out, and when goblins would pick up 40 pound barrels of liquid fire and blow you to smithereens with one throw?

Ah yes. I remember it well, with seething, burning hatred.

Well... Ogres lobbing barrels onto the grove wall was fun. That, I miss. That made the grove fight SO much more interesting and difficult.

Shadowheart is less of a ***ch

This is my favorite so far as well along with the earlier update when they added Guidance and other spells to dialogue!😊

Haven't played it yet but newest patch had a big change imo. I can now summon Shovel once and keep it through the game since... "familiars no longer unsummon on a long rest"!

If I remember correctly, WAY back, SR was unlimited. They made it 2/day to prevent spamming SR to fully heal the party between every fight.

They made it so certain areas prevent LR, like the Hag's Lair. Oh wait. You said meaningful. I don't know if that is really meaningful.

wasn't SR originally 1x per long rest? Then was bumped up to 2?

Yep

There was a complete UI overhaul at some point, I remember in the earlier patches, bringing up the inventory used to pull up the inventories of all four party members at the same time.

Im really surprised you didnt include Swarm AI Tuco ...
That was really significant mechanical change.

And picking heavy stuff up aswell ...
Also encumberance was not present in first patch ...

Since launch, they added new melee options to weapons.
Added throwing damage to stuff like daggers, javelins and axes rather than weight based damage
Ability to throw healing potions at others to heal them
added casting sounds
added goals based on background (the inspiration points)

And that is what I can think of at the top of my head really. I mean there has been tons of rebalancing of course and spells added as well.

There was plenty that I didn't include, but that aside I just went through an entire playthrough of patch 8 and I can't really say I've had a ton of chances to appreciate Swarm AI.
In fact, I distinctly noticed it just ONCE when four goblins in the temple courtyard moved concurrently and (so far) that was pretty much the full extent of it.

Some negative changes:

Am I the only one noticing this? Pre patch the game graphics art style looked better.

-Downgraded graphics for lighting. Looks more mushy, colorful and bright now...particularly in dark areas.

I have not played the game for a while.

I know they changed spell UI for upcasting.
Did they also change "cast spell again"?

The first versions had an annoying issue.
You cast spell x by selecting it from the hotbar.
Then a new icon showed up on the hotbar "cast spell x again".
To use the spell first you had to know that a new icon comes and then you had to find it.
If they did not change this already it would be nice if the "cast spell again" option was part of the new upcasting menu, so there is only one icon for every spell.

I don't know about OP barrelmancy, but ogres throwing goblin-laden barrels onto the grove walls is still a thing.

A few additions to the list I haven't seen mentioned already.

• Weapon actions were added.
• Wyll's Devil sight was made compatible with the Darkness spell.
• The Friends cantrip used to have no consequences.
• A bunch of content has made less difficult to access, either by lowering the DC of the check required, or by adding a path that requires no dice-rolling.
• The camp sequences have been reshuffled as of patch 8. I don't have all the details on this, but the story makes more sense now, no matter how often you long rest.
• A bunch of magic items were created, often with their own charge system or status effect. (Not saying it's always good, but it's an EA addition).
• The UI now lets you click on a ressource (action, BA, spell slot...) and shows what you can do with it.
• The trade tab was added alongside the barter tab.
• Committing some crimes will land you in jail.

Yeah, have simmilar experience ...

But today im going to fight Goblin camp, so fingers crossed. ^_^

Well ... yes, but im not quite sure if for the better. :-/
Right now recasting is showed on extra bar that appears on separated 4-slots bar that is invisible if unused, nothing can be dragged out, nothing can be added in, not quite sure if it can expand futher ... but it certainly takes space that could have ben used for regular hotbar.

---
//Edit:
On topic ... there was also some major HP reductions for NPCs ... especialy for Goblins.
Sadly there was also sobe boosts ... especialy for Githyanki.

Oh yeah, how Shadowheart joins the party got completely changed. During the earlier EA patches, the earliest she could join you was after the Naulitoid crash. Now as we all know, she can join you aboard the ship, and I'm not even sure the original scene of her joining your party (where she was banging against the crypt door) even exists anymore.

Trying to add things that I dident see people mention.

-They removed alot of clutter from the game. Like, metric tons of clutter.
-somewhat related, you can see upfront now if a container is empty. Dont think that was the case for the early builds. Means you spend less time looting things that dont actually hold anything.
-The encounter in the druid grove with (I think she was called Ellie?) has been made possible to do without save-scumming. Its original incarnation was exceedingly harsh. And while in character for a druid in the setting, was just a tad to much.
-Shadowheart her stats were a complete mess and got a more sensible rework.
-Speaking of Shadowheart. Her demeaner is....less rude. Originally she was VERY unlikable. Now she just somewhat unlikeable when you meet her but her beeing carefull at least makes abit of sense. She opens up more easily I think. Need to do another playthrough to check on her whole arc though, As much as we can see in the EA anyway.
-Added the bard singing in the druid camp. Whatever you like it or not its a nice atmospheric change.
-Spells can now be cast in dialogue more easily with prompts. And you cant use peoples spells against them when you are in dialogue with them.
-Cantrips not leaving surface areas has been listed but their damage has also been corrected. Seeing as we want them to adhere to the written rules I think thats fair to mention when they do listen to us.
-Some encounters have been tweaked depending on player feedback. The minotaurs and Hook Horrors for example got some tweaks AFAIK. They were jumping about, multi attacking and doing concussive blasts with their jumps originally and it was a complete shit-show compared to what those encounters were supposed to be when comparing the monsters to the monster manual counterpart.
-They added the part of the Duergar in the underdark. That part wasent in the game with the earlier builds.
-Dialogue added for quests in the underdark. Think the quest for the boots of speed with the underdark gnome dude. Or was it the dude in the shroom fields? Either way, they added more dialogue based on what had already happened.

Already mentioned by people but I think il add it as well, because people keep insisting that Larian doesent listen to feedback.
-Advantage in melee by beeing behind the target has been taken out due to feedback. Dispite it beeing a literal interpretation from the rules. (you get advantage if your target cant see you attacking) And high ground is now a small bonus instead of advantage. The latter was their own house-rule but the former could be considered PHB valid. Even if it was a very literal interpretation of the rules.

Thats the most I can come up on short notice.. Im sure ive missed some things but the game has changed quite a great deal. Even if each change isent as large as they could be.

You can do that?! Care to share how?

Still exists, I saw her banging away yesterday after failing the 'Ilithid wisdom' check when trying to insert the rune on the Nautiloid. I didn't think it was possible to fail on that roll, since it says 0, but I missed it rolling a 1. I assumed it was just a bug or something, but after failing she was knocking on the door with her mace just like the old times.

Pressing alt shows you the [empty] tag. I believe you could see upfront if something was empty but your reaction makes me second guess myself.

I do know you can see it on corpses (most anyway) but I seem to recall it worked for containers as well. Or did I misrenember things here?

You should only get advantage when you attack while being invisible or in stealth mode.
Attacking an enemy from behind when you are visible should not give advantage. Normally the enemy would see you and look at you when you attack him while you are visible.

I just checked the PHB and it does not mention flanking, so I am not sure about this.

Here's how I remember it. Pressing left alt will show tags for interesting objects and lootables. That feature has been changed during EA (I think), and doesn't show tags for the dumb stuff, like empty vases or pointless barrels.

The "empty" tag only shows up after you've looted something, and only if it's completely empty. Looting a corpse for weapons and armor but leaving behind a bone or empty bottle will not result in an "empty" tag. I don't think there's any way of making sure something is empty without looting it. Context clues help, but that's all you've got.

Not all things show up under ALT too. Maybe that's just them getting around to coding, but many objects with stuff in them won't show up with ALT, so you still want to click on everything if you're wanting all the goodies.

All important stuff seems to show under ALT - I suspect items that are highlighted are handpicked. So yeah, there is generic stuff to be found in some of the unhighlighted contained, but when you enter into the room and wonder what is worth paying attention to, ALT is there to help.

Here are the changes I can remember that I don't think I saw here:


UI/System
- Activating Turnbase mode immediately pauses character movement. In early patches, your characters reforms into formation first even after you turn it on, which can trigger traps, etc.

- Added in-world dates to the Journal (instead of just day 1, 2, 3, etc). Not sure if this will have significance later on, but probably just a minor change.

- AOO Indicator (the circle) was off and unreliable in early patches - seem to have been fixed.


Mechanics/Rules
- Armor proficiency requirements for non-chest pieces

- Fixed effects and conditions (at least closer to RAW 5E). Some examples:
- Fear from Menacing Attack used to make enemies run away
- Enemies used to not stay in Prone
- Blind/Obscurement applies disadvantage/advantage instead of making Ranged attacks unusable

- Adjusted the action cost of weapon swapping mid-combat (costs an action, not RAW, but there was definitely concern about how easy it was)

Oh just after looting then. It wasent as grand an improvement as I renembered then. But I do recall that it did help by showing what you already looted.


Not precisely. Like I said its a very literal interpretation but invisibilityt or stealth are indeed the easiest way of gaining it. On page 194 the unseen attackers and targets section states that if your opponent cannot see you, you have advantage when you attack them. If someone is standing behind you, you cant see it. Hence why moving behind enemies became instant advantage which completly broke combat.

Most groups run the rule that unless someone is hidden when combat starts then everyone at least knows of your presence even if they cant see you directly. I run it the same as well but technicly thats a house rule and not true to the phb. Its completly broken to run it as written though as it just turns into people running behind enemies and having perpetual advantage which I really doubt was the intention.

I'll put this in spoiler as I'm just replying to Demoulius and this is off-topic.

Il also keep it in spoiler tag. Do want to reply but not create a massive wall o text.

Another change... you can no longer bypass the Grove fight without triggering it. You use to be able to jump or fly(pet) from the road up to the grove, land up near the dead harper, then jump/fly down to the road headed toward the Blighted Village and the Grove fight would still be waiting for you to trigger it when you came back latter.

OK..what does Jeremy Crawford say?

I think its a good sign when you see the RAW being dissected . Achieving normality.

I think there can be no doubt that Larian is listening to feedback from many sources.

I dont know if Jeremy Crawford ever commented on it. But hes also contradicted himself in the past on some things so I tend to be hesitant to see things that he says as gospel. Reason why is off topic so il hide that in spoilers.

Has no one mentioned Minthara's haircut yet?

A huge oversight! It should have been the first thing in Tuco’s post!!!

Also made me think of Chubblot’s tweet about her patch 8 update: https://mobile.twitter.com/chubblot/status/1546861181775671297?cxt=HHwWgsCjiZODx_cqAAAA

Honestly I think it changes every patch so I dont think we have seen her final form yet!

Oh, I forgot to list that enemies and characters don't have explicit levels mentioned under their name anymore, which I'm rather happy about since it was a personal pet peeve of mine (and I complained openly about this being a thing).
I freaking hate when games do that.

Of course, you can still pretty much get the "level estimation" with a Right click+ Examine, but still... Not something so in your face anymore, at least.

I agree

In DOS2 level scaling of numbers was so extreme that you were almost forced to fight enemies in a special order if you do not want to make your life extremely hard.
In DnD this is less extreme (numbers are generally lower. LV5 would be an extreme increase in power for all classes but in DOS2 it was like this on every lv up.)

Not sure if this is ACTUALLY new, but first I have seen of it.

Thank-you


Thank-you times 2

It was definitely in the last patch, but I didn't play the patches before that.

OK, so you still can't choose to fight her if you saved her, but just learned that she serves shar and intends to hand over the artifact.

That would be the ideal option...but

Ima go back to the Nataloid and just not let her out. I tried and failed...aw shucks.

OK solved.

I just backed up a save and got her to expose herself as a Shar do girl...then kicked her.

Then I triggered the cut scene and I have the artifact.


I think someone posted as much at patch 7, but that was the play-through that I decided to try her out, and investigate Larian's hard work (so I had not kicked her that run).
I have used her every time since, and will continue to, right up until this point.

I can now attest that she is a great companion, BUT...our interests are definitely not aligned. I saw more of her evil side testing dialogue options and I don't think I have seen the last of her.

I tell you what, you can take someones memories but you cannot change their personality. If she is former Selune, then they defiantly sent her to brainwashing camp strait-a-way after taking her memories.

Just my opinion.

I give her character an A+ for both writing and combat.

...and then there were two...Wyll and I head on (I havn't recruited the other three this round, might not, we will see).

Question on Wylls Imp: When did they make it so you can't separate him from the group, or has it always been like that?

I was trying to use him as a spotter, but when I click over to another (unchained) character, the imp flies back to Wyll. Makes familiars kinda useless now.


Same with Halsin...he is glued to the main character...so I can't toggle in and out of stealth or he comes up and triggers combat.

He is now best left near his old cage.


As is: No beastmasters, Halsin, familiars, or Pact of the Chain for me. They have all become liabilities. Ring of invisibility is a much better option to scout.

It’s always been like that. If you want Wyll’s imp to stay put while you control other characters, you need to put it in hiding mode (even if it’s already invisible). Beware, though, as this technique may leave it stranded halfway accross the map without you realizing.

Even as one of the few Wyll advocates on the forum, I have to admit the imp’s usability has been a pain point.

Thanks for the reply:) Good to know.


In this case, I was in the rafters trying to shoot down (stealth, hit, re-stealth). I was trying to use him as camera reference, where I could just click on him to reposition the camera for targeting. A spotter if you will.

Now I know how to make him stay put.


I guess I can do the same with Halsin...so he doesn't end up in my space, initiating battle.

The imp is great if you want to take control and "hit and run"...wiped out half the goblin camp this way on my first run. More of a mini-game than a serious play-style.
Been there...done it, kinda thing. Now I'm trying to find more serious uses for him.

Although it would be pretty hilarious to multi-class and have an imp running around with dragon's breath active. 1 minute concentration, 15' cone, 3d6 (at level 3)...range TOUCH.

Invisible attack...fly back behind the line of scrimmage. rinse/repeat or just be a flanker.