So ... i have done some research (read as: i played video on youtube explaning this rule).
And both i and my source come to same conclusion ... it should be forbidden to cast two leveled spells within single turn using action AND bonus action ...

On the other hand there was specificaly mentioned that Eldrich Knights should totally be able to cast two spells in single turn when they used Action Surge since there is no Bonus Action used ...
So logicaly if i understand this corectly we should be able to bypass this rule by drinking Potion of Speed using our Bonus Action instead of casting with it.

What puzzles me a little is that there was specificaly mentioned Cleric using both Healing Word and Cure Wounds should be forbidden by the same rule.
Yet i dont remember so many people complaining about Cleric being abke to do that as there is now complaining about Sorcerer being OP.


ANYWAY there is no suggestion here 😆
The person in that video said that this is so commonly missinterpretted rule ... so many groups he know simply ignores it to play more smoothly. So ... i just wish to find out point of view of our curently active majority. So i created a pool!

There is new updated pool right here: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=800167#Post800167

Allow it (as BG3 does now)! I love casting misty step + another spell or a healing spell + another spell.

If we go by the rules, then no: haste doesn't give the character another main action to spend on anything they want. Also if we go by the rules drinking potion should be a bonus action (that change I don't think is an issue)


Chaining powerful spells can become a massive balance problem in later levels (that's why part of community is so desperate to get to play with level5 characters - as this is where multiattack becomes a thing. I am not looking forward to having enemy wizards chaining fireballs at my team - and then warriors pushing off cliffs any remagning survivors.

The reason you should stick to the D&D core (in this case) is that at level 5 and a haste potion you can cast 4 fireballs in one round if you have 6 sorcery points and the circlet that give a bonus action with fire damage spells. I shouldn't need to explain why casting 4 fireballs in one round is ridiculous, even 2 would delete the goblin camp.

I do understand this makes spending 3 sorcery points on a quicken spell somewhat esoteric and pointless in most cases. I mean you could throw something and cast a fireball I guess. Haste doesn't allow two spells per round either. This is again something homebrew screwing up th action economy.

What would work pretty well with core rules is - haste pot, quicken spell, hex, scorching ray with the fire damage circlet, dual hand crossbows on a high dex drow sorc. Hand crowwbows would hit for a potential 2d6x3 then +6d6+3d6 from scorching ray. So 15d6 in one round at level 4 is pretty mean. Fireball x4 would hit for 32d6 to everything in the blast radius.

Nah ... i mean if this rule would be implemented ... but everything else (specificaly Potion of Speed effect) would remain the same.

I was talking about BG-3 scenario, not tabletop.
Could have say that more clearly tho.

I udnerstand this ...
Even tho i still believe that the fact we are able to heal twice as effective by allowing our clerics to use both healing spells at once also disturbs ballance (at least i usualy can get Shadowheart from 1hp to almost full by using them both).

That is the question here isnt it?
Sure, level 5 sorcerer would be able to obliterate whole Goblin camp within single turn ... on the other hand, he would be able without this change too.

I mean, i get why people dislike it, but i kinda like the idea that Sorcerer is candle that burns twice brighter compared to Wizard, but also half the time.
In other words ... if you wish to spend all your powerfull spellslots to "faster" (since that is effectively the only difference, i mean there is no way that Goblin Camp would provide any real threat for level 5 Sorcerer, is it?) kill residents of Goblin Camp ... be my guest.
But count on that you will need twice as much Long Rests to remain effective.

I can litteraly hear those people who are demanding more restrictive resting as they say that this is not a problem, since there is enough food in this game for even Thrice as much Long rests ... but note that food is not the only problem, coming back to camp is for many (and yes im aware that this word means "not everyone") simply anoying so they try to avoid that by themselves.

I dont understand this example ...
I thought that if you are unable to cast two leveled spells in single turn, and therefore you should not be able to cast Hex and Scorching Ray, no? O_o

Hey Ragnarok,

Interesting topic... I need to check this too hmmm... Not 100 % sure, but I think Solasta might be guilty of this too. You are talking about 2 leveled spells right?, e.g. lvl 2 guied bolt followed by a lvl 2 healing word as a bonus action right? Or does it also count for example, misty stepping my wizard up a ledge and then casting a lvl 2 magic missile or a acid arrow?

need to check with my lvl 10 party on solasta near endgame to be sure. Could very well be that I remember wrongly lol.

Hey Kimuriel, glad you find it interesting.
I feel the urge to state that i dont concider Solasta to be relevant to this topic in any way, i gues there is lot of games (and lots of sessions) where people ignore this (or some other) rule, what matters me here is how BG-3 will implement it.

And while i welcome and discusion about this topic, main (and to be brutaly honest, practicaly the only) reason for existence of this topic has ben to create pool, so we can see in clear numbers wich option would curently active members prefer.
And even that was only bcs i was curious about result.

Yes, that would be it ...
Only its about "two leveled spells" not "two spells level 2"

So even casting Guiding Bolt lvl 3/2/1 and then Healing Word lvl 3/2/1 would be wrong ...

Exact wording for rule is:

Seems like a good idea to implement this rule though, as it would make you think about how you use your spells more. Overall I think the closer you can be to core DnD (without compromising your artistic license too much), the more enjoyable it gets in general. And what you suggest, to me at least, does not seem to bothersome anyway. Even if they decrease the amount of food you find in the world, you would still be able to find enough stuff to do your long rest.

Slighly off topic here, I haven't tried this spell on BG 3 really, does Goodberry and create food give you permanent rations/food in BG3? If not I really hope they will add that.

Which spells should are usually a bonus action under 5e anyway?

and just to float a balloon idea here, would any of you guys consider it a bad idea to add areas where you cannot rest at all?

I think, but I'm not entirely convinced, that limiting spells to one spell per turn (and free cantrips) might be the best way to go, for balances sake. It seems likely to me that extra attacks will be implemented as extra actions (just like the extra attack from Haste is implemented right now), and the idea of an EK throwing out 5 (action, action, Surge, action, action, Haste action) spells in one turn -- 5/6thsof their spell slots at level 7 -- is a bit much, even if it's a niche case.

Another reasonable way to limit it, in my mind, that would let casters use more magic on their turn without enabling EK (or fighter/caster multiclasses) carpet bombing would be to limit it to one spell per action type. So a Hasted wizard could potentially Misty Step (bonus action) away from melee, throw a Fireball (action), but then not be able to throw a second Fireball with his Haste action but have to lob a cantrip at the enemy instead.

Casting more than one leveled spell per turn is already such an obvious balance problem. Of course D&D rules need to be followed here.

We have examples of Sorcerers effortlessly soloing the most difficult encounters in the game without enemies even getting a turn. Double surprise rounds contribute to that as well and need to be fixed.

And spellcasters are still "weak" at these levels. The alpha strikes will get exponentially more powerful at every new spell level.

If Larian insist on keeping this in because "being OP is fun", this nonsense needs to be contained in lower difficulty settings.

5e only has rules against using both your action and bonus action to cast leveled spells on the same turn. It's perfectly legal per raw for a an EK to cast two spells the same turn if they use Action Surge. It's a bit of a blind spot in the system honestly.

By the time EKs get Fireball at level 13 it's probably not as gamebreaking. I guess the "power build" in BG3 could be a Sorcerer 9 / Fighter 2 that could erase all encounters with an alpha strike before they even get a turn. I'm afraid Larian would just consider this "fun" and then the "if you don't like it don't use it" crowd would appear.

I hope they don’t add this rule to BG3!!!

Rag you're missing an important option in your poll that is an intermediate step between D&D rules and Larian's current implementation.

Allow casting an action & bonus action spell in the same turn EXCEPT when the bonus action spell is from Sorcerer's Quicken.

Hex/reapply is a bonus action just like hunters mark. They are intended to be cast before an action.

The thing is what happens when you meet a level 5 NPC sorcerer? If you can do it so can they.

+1 for following 5E D&D on this one.

I'm usually pretty open to adjustments to the rules to make for better gameplay, but the multiple levelled spells will cause a pretty big imbalance issue at later levels IMO, especially since Resting is 100% player controlled. With the way Haste is currently implemented (which also needs to be fixed), a Fighter 2 / Sorcerer X can drop 4x action spells (action, action surge, quickened bonus action, haste action) in one round, BEFORE the extra bonus-action shenanigans you get with the recently implemented items.

Combine this with how Stealh/Surprise is currently handled (way too much in the player's favor IMO), it's pretty encounter breaking.

I get that the spellcasting rules is probably one of the more complicated 5E rules and can definitely throw some beginners off, but it's pretty fundamental to the system from a balance standpoint. Also, I think players are more than capable of learning/understanding this rule after potential initial confusion. Unlike Tabletop, since it's governed by game system, it's not like you have to actively remember the ruling - the game does that for you.

A potential compromise I might be willing to try is the Casting Rules used in Critical Role season 1. Essentially, it's you can cast multiple levelled spells per turn via action/bonus action, but once you've casted one spell, your other spells are limited to level 2 or below. This still lets players have more flexibility and things to do, and does put a cap on the overpowerness. However, this change would STILL throw off balance between casters/martials, and more balancing decisions will need to be made if they want to apply this.

Easiest way forward is just to apply the PnP rules on this one.

EK using action surge doesn't seem like a huge problem to me. They are quarter casters, so they have a fairly hard limit on the type of spells they can use, and the action surge itself is a fairly limited resource.

With multiclassing you could give action surge to a sorcerer, but at the cost of 2 levels of spell progression. That is a strong multiclass, but losing that spell progression hurts.

On the other hand, casting two spells per round is something that a sorcerer (or a wizard with haste) could potentially do far more often than once per rest. Keep in mind that the rule is based on experience going back to 3.5 edition D&D where casters just dominated the game once they survived early levels. Cantrip + spell is still strong (remember that firebolt scales with level, you get 2d10 starting at level 5). If you dip a pair of warlock levels you can get eldritch blast with charisma added per hit (so 2d10 + 2 X cha at level 5). Even doing that twice per round (no spell) is pretty strong single target at level 5.

So... my opinion is that they should go with core... and let people mod in 2 spells per round if they want to.

You would still be able to do that ...
Only the second spell would need to be cantrip.

Like Misty Step + Firebolt ...
Or Healing Spell + Sacret Flame ...

Really? I expected this to be implemented by adding ability that will do two strikes instead of one ...
(BTW i was unable to find it, but should we be able to attack two separate targets with multiattack or not?)

I dare to presume Surge also restores only one Action, just as it does now (doesnt it? didnt try on patch 6) while under effect of potion.

I cant quite imagine how would you like to explain this rule to new players.

I disagree ...
Im allways against difficiulty settings "contain" any toggleable option. :-/

You should be able to turn this on/off even on Hard, if that difficiulty gives you power for enemies you want. :P

Hmm ... interesting suggestion, but im not adding it. :-/

It would be unfair to let everyone else abuse absence of rule, while you will be punishing the only class that actualy need to spend some resource to abuse it.

Im allways for options, but those options should aply same to everyone ... not single ruleset for Sorcerer, and second ruleset for everyone else, that is just wrong. :-/

Reaply maybe ... dunno, have to keep researching.
But Hex is regular leveled spell ... same as Misty Step, same as Healing Word ... and yet you cant use neither of those in same turn as any other spell that isnt Cantrip. O_o

So if this rule would be aplied ...
I dare to say that you would need to separate it into two turns ... like this:
1st round: Hex + Eldrich Blast (since that is cantrip, and therefore okey)
2nd round: Scorching Ray

I cant agree with this statement ... you have to remember the rule, so you can plan what to do.
Otherwise you can easily and often get to frustratin "oh shit why cant i do that" situations.

Im not sure what are you talking about here ...
As far as i know, Eldrich Blast dont become stronger as other cantrips, instead it gets another beam ...

And im not quire sure what do you mean by "dip" ... but if you are talking about multiclassing, i also believe that you would need to reach level 5 as Warlock to get that second beam.

Not sure how it works with feat Magic Initiate: Warlock tho ... i presume then you would get both Hex and second beam, but lost Eldrich Invocations ...
But on the other hand, Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer adds charisma modifier to related element since level 6 ... there is no Force, nor Necrotic Dragon tho.

This doesn't just punish sorcerer and isn't a "single ruleset for Sorcerer, and second ruleset for everyone else." It's "a single rule for Quicken Spell, and universal spell rules for every caster including sorcerer."

Quicken is a much bigger problem because you can turn any spell into a bonus action. Which allows for double fireball and other powerful spell combinations without needing to spend 2 levels on Fighter (and thus be 2 levels behind on spell progression). This is especially bad in BG3 because of the lack of a long rest limit, so a sorcerer effectively has infinite sorcery points. Normal bonus action spells are much weaker then full-action spells, so it's less of a problem to allow that for all casters.

I'm assuming that Larian also fixes the game so Haste doesn't allow the casting of an additional spell, which is unbalanced because of the exact problem above.

Toggles for every little detail are a developer's way of saying "we have no clue, figure it out yourself". If they can't figure out how to make 4-5 difficulty settings to cover every major playstyle, I wouldn't trust them to get much else right either.

And I don't want to have to wade through a huge list of toggles before I start to play. I want to click on "CORE RULES" and start playing.

***

There's too much debate on these forums whether or not some particular feature that could eventually fall under difficulty settings should be kept or added or brought back. Having even a rough sketch of difficulty settings would save a lot of trouble.

That's true, I didn't take that into consideration; I just used Fireball as example because it had been mentioned before.


Yes, I think so, because of how Haste was implemented as just giving you another action "point" to use. I can be wrong, of course, and we'll see how they do it when we see it.

And yeah, they should be able to attack different targets or even move between attacks if they want to. From the Player's Handbook, Chapter 9: Combat, Movement and Position, Breaking Up Your Move (just getting all the subtitles in there since I can't give you a page number ):



Depends entirely on whether you or I turn out to be correct about whether Extra Attack will be implemented as an extra attack or another action, I guess.


I would explain it like I just did. When a player tried to use another spell with another action type I would just have a red text notification appear that said they couldn't and why, just like how it does now when you can't move rocks and so on.

Honestly I think that would be a fair trade off over two turns as it would give your melee classes a purpose. Misty step, hunters mark and hex are class specific support spells even though they are "levelled" they do no damage or apply combat disadvantage. Hex and hunters mark have a strict set of rules apply to the effects. You must attack with something that requires a ranged saving throw or a weapon otherwise it doesn't do anything. Potential damage is a best case scenario and very rarely applies max damage.

That said your point is valid obviously.

I dont see difference between those.
My Sorcerer can cast only one damaging leveled spell ... but your Cleric can easily cast two leveled heals.
And you say that is balanced?
Let me laugh even harder (I feel like im using this meme really often lately )

I have read that previously, much more than once ... and i still believe it would be unfair to limit only single mechanic and keep everything else unchanged. :-/

It depends on wich level you are checking ...

Warlock that can use Hex and Scorching ray in single turn on level 3 gets 3x2d6+3x1d6 ... 54 damage ... what enemy survives this on level 3?
While he should only have 1d10+1d6 ... 16 ... still quite significant diference if you ask me. :-/

Sorcerer on the same level can with his Metamatic do 3x2d6 + 3x2d6 ... 72 damage ...
While he should only have 3x2d6 + 1d10 (presuming he will use Firebolt) ... 46 ...

And before anyone says it ... yes im aware that 72 is more than 54.
But compared to their regular (aka rule aplied) damage potential, Warlock can do more than three times as much ... while Sorcerer dont even do double.

That is different topic in my opinion.

That is the idea im defending for last year, any time difficiulties come in some topic ...
You either pick your Difficiulty profile ... and play.
Or you then roll down to toggle options and adjust it just they way you like. :P

Just like you can do in Pathfinder.

I don't really mind being able to cast 2 healing spells.
I don't think it has bad consequences considering their homebrew system (monster stats, skills and so on).

But the sorcerer is going to be OP when we'll be able to cast level 3+ spells.

Dnd's rule is coherent while BG3's actual rule (or lack of...) will have terrible consequences on the class balance.

Think a bit further than "I like to cast misty step + a damage spell" and keep in mind we only have level 2 spells. 2 fireball, 2 lightning bolt, 2 haste, 2 wall of fire,... This would be absolutely ridiculous.

Your poll really lack interresting options but if I have to choose : DnD, definitely.

That certainly changes things.
In that case you are probably right ... another action indeed seems like the only way to implement this. :-/


That could work ...
But i meaned before they do something ... i mean its not hard to simply let all unusable spell icons to become inactive with red writing teling "you allready used simmilar action" ...
But how to explain it in advance ...

I mean:
If you say: "Cant use same spell twice" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Shatter ... would it be possible?
If you say: "Cant use same type of spells" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Magic Missiles ... would it be possible?
If you say: "Cant use second damaging spell" ... i would like to cast Fireball + Sleep ... would it be possible?
Take it that im DnD lame, i have no idea what "types" of spells are there ...

There are no notable breaks in the balance of the spell system caused by allowing bonus action spells to be cast alongside action spells by the same character in the same turn, with the exception of one notable high level BA spell combination, and sorcerer's quicken spell. No, Rag, the cleric spending their spell slots to cast a healing word and a cure wounds in the same turn is not a balance problem; healing is, until much higher level a generally very ineffective use of actual combat turns

In Larian's game, the smoothest way to make the spellcasting fair and flexible is to leave us with the ability to cast with all parts of our turn economy, without an arbitrary limitation, and to simply rewrite Quicken itself to read:



This prevents the quicken spell power break, but still allows player to flexibly cast with their Actions and BAs elsewise - and also allows them to counterspell mid-turn if they need to, regardless of the situation.... which other folk's suggestions of other limitations ("Don't allow the casting of two levelled spells on a turn", etc.) tends to indelicately block out. So, this is the solution I'd like to push for on that score.

I was just about to write: Ugh ... okey you win, i'l add it there ...
But then i find out i cant edit that pool. :-/

So ... is there something im missing, or is that really impossible?

No. Your Sorcerer can cast two spells just as easily as my Cleric. The spells just naturally have to be a bonus action.

Your sorcerer can cast Misty Step (or Dragon's Breath or Magic Weapon) and Fireball; my Cleric can cast Spiritual Weapon (or Healing Word or Sanctuary) and Cure Wounds. But your cleric can't cast Heal and Cure Wounds because those are both actions, just like my sorcerer can't cast Fireball and Burning Hands.

Yes, just like Wizard can, just like Warlock can ...

I dunno, it just dont feels right i cant help it. :-/
I see what you mean, i understand it ... but i just see that diferently.

That's totally fair for you to feel like that about quicken. There's always been a huge debate on these forums as to the balance of the bonus action + leveled spell restriction.

But that's your personal feelings, and you wouldn't want your personal feelings to affect this poll right? I was just advocating for the option to be put on the poll. I'm not even sure I'd agree with it; I also don't like the idea of a Cleric/Bard being able to cast a leveled spell AND Healing Word, since Healing Word is kind of OP in 5e and encourages whack-a-mole gameplay.

I don't like the one spell restriction per turn. I also don't care that it creates any balance problems.
It is after all a single player game with OPTIONAL co-op.
Not everything has to be balanced in some way.

As I would change, when you cast a spell, you can only use spells of a lower level.
For example, if you use a level 3 spell, then you can only use level 2 spells and lower.
You can also make it accumulate.
It's not perfect, but it's better than wasting points on a cantrip (and much more fun).

I am perfectly fine with being able to have spellcasters can as many leveled spells as they can in a round, only if the mobs can do it too and the AI is optimized so they will do so as often as possible.

Just think about how much fun it will be to have your party hit with 2-4 fireballs constantly. So much fun being nuked for total party kills without being able to do anything!

And you win ... im willing to add it, but sadly Edit dont let me.
Tell me how and i do it.

//Edit: So i was asking The Composer if there is a way to edit a pool ... and there isnt any.
So we would have to start new pool. :-/

"Dip" is a common term for multiclassing where you grab only a few levels and go back to your original class.

In this case the dip is for two levels, to get eldritch blast and agonizing blast (and whatever you want for the other invocation).

Eldritch blast does indeed get more blasts when it scales. That is what makes it so strong with agonizing blast, because you get your charisma bonus added to each hit. If a level 5 character (3 sorc/2 war) casts it twice they get 4 beams (two for each cast) and each does 1D10+cha damage.

Dragon sorc also adds charisma to damage (provided the element matches their heritage) but with fire bolt (for instance) that just adds charisma once per cast, instead of once per beam. You get a lot more +cha with eldritch blast.

Hooray for ancient, barely functional forums! /s :P

Another option for Quicken is for it to cost spell level + 2 points.
2 points to quicken a cantrip (and be able to use your action to cast any spell, even level 9)
3 points to quicken a 1st level spell (and still able to use action to cast any spell)
4 points to quicken a 2nd level spell ("")
etc

I have no idea how balanced this implementation would actually be. But at the very least it'd be interesting, add decision making without limiting possibilities, and isn't as unbalanced as being able to cast 2 fireballs for 2 or 3 sorcery points.

I actualy think this us better for function ... editing pools would compromite results ...
But Composer had good idea for aolution i shall create other topic later today (when i get to computer writing on telefon is pain) and then ask him to move coments there so we can continue....

Anyway if you have any other idea for vote options niw is good time to twll me.

So ...
As many of you probably know i just recently started a pool, since i was curious about wich option would people prefer in matter to solving restriction of casting during single turn ... yet i was quite fast told that my pool miss another option some people would certainly prefer. :-/
And while i absolutely despise that option, and find it incredibly unfair towards Sorcerers ... i had to admit that they got a point ... my intention was to find what would people prefer, and so i should accept what would people prefer no matter how much i would personaly hate that option.

And since there is (for logical reasons) no way to edit pools ... i had to start another topic ...
I really hope nobody will this time tell me that some option is missing, since i would hate to start third topic.
(I shall write to Composer and ask for moving coments to this one, so we can continue any potential debate here)

There.
Now when pretalk is done ... lets get to topic itself.

Exact wording for rule is:

Meaning:
Once you cast any leveled spell (aka, not cantrip) that uses Bonus Action (that is actualy important part), you should no longer be able to cast another leveled spell using Action.
Note that this rule dont forbid casting by using second action, or reaction.

But many combination we probably use would no longer be possible:
Misty step + any non-cantrip spell
Hex + any non-cantrip spell
Healing Word + any non-cantrip spell
And (most importantly as it seems) ... Any non-cantrip spell alterned by Metamagic: Quickened Spell + any non-cantrip spell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I apology once more for repeating the same question to you, but i have to admit that my first pool had skewed results, and therefore was practicaly useless.
This time i add option "other idea" so this would not repeat.

Thank you all for your patience and your votes.

Voted for allow it (as it is now).

As I wrote in the other thread, I love using Misty Step + a noncantrip spell or Healing Word + a noncantrip spell! So, I definitely wouldn’t want the rule added to all spells!

A toggle would be okay, too.

Having it just for metamagic is better than having it for everything, but I can’t see myself ever using metamagic points on quickened for a cantrip, so that would make quickened useless for me. Most of the objections that I saw had to do with fireball. A better option for me than excluding all spells from quickened would be to only exclude fireball from quickened but let other spells be used.

Huh! Ok Rag Sorry :') Apparently merging and old thread with a new one puts the old thread on top!

I'm all for keeping it how it is now. An action is an action and a bonus is a bonus.

I usually find that Quicken is most useful when you need to take your action to Disengage/Dash/Hide (or drink potions when they cost an action). I agree that Quickening a spell to cast a cantrip can often be underwhelming: "My firebolt hits and deals 2d8...rolled for 6 damage! :/"

Also thanks Rag. I'm pretty sure I know what the results of this poll will be, but hey maybe posters will surprise me!

You give really strong argument.
Also in curious myself.

Your firebolt does 2d8?!

oops 2d10, but then it's even more underwhelming when it deals 6 damage!

I can’t see myself using metamagic points for that, either. Is that something you used it for a lot in BG3?

I voted for keeping in the 5E PnP rules - of all the choices, I feel like it's the easiest to implement and will be the most balanced.

The multiple levelled spell is simply too much of a buff for casters, which will really hamper balance against many other classes (Rogues, Fighters, etc). Remember, the levels we see in the EA (1-4) are where casters are at their ABSOLUTE weakest. Everything just skyrockets from there.

Quicken spell + cantrip can be a bit underwhelming, but I think that's alright because it shouldn't be so much better than all the other metamagics. There's a reason why Heighten, Empowered, and other metamagic exist - and I think Larian actually made a great change in giving us more Metamagic choices (normally in PnP sorcerers only get 3 at the EA levels). Quicken is still amazing when you have a strong action to use. It's perfect for multiclasses like Warlock + Sorcerer (BA spell + action eldritch blast) or Sorcerer + Paladin (BA spell + full attack, maybe even smites).

If Larian is changing the spell casting rules, then they really need to evaluate everything from a balance standpoint.

If we're making adjustments, I do generally think Sorcerers need a buff, but I don't think having Quicken Spell be extremely OP is the way to go - since it devalues the other metamagics. I'd prefer the Tasha's / Solasta fix - which is to give Sorcerers "Domain" Spells.

I'm speaking mainly from tabletop experience. Disengage can help your caster to attack at normal instead of disadvantage and/or run away from the enemy in order to not die and to help keep concentration. But most of the other important Actions in BG3 have been changed/not implemented.

In BG3, Hide and Potions are bonus actions, so obviously quicken is not needed for those. Dash will basically never be useful for spellcasters in BG3 because of the smaller maps. Oh and I completely forgot to mention Dodge. Dodge (+ mirror image & shield) is pretty powerful in tabletop against attack rolls and Dex ST effects; get in the middle of combat, quicken a powerful spell and use your action to Dodge, then shield any hits that get through! ...but of course Dodge doesn't exist in BG3.

This.

Another really strong Quicken spell combo is to use Greater Invisibility (stay invisible after attacking/casting), and then just cast spells via Quicken and take the Hide action every turn.

People who need to use sight automatically fail their perception checks unless they can sense you another way (tracks, noise, etc). On failure, they they don't even know where you are and cannot target you at all. For those who manage to pass the perception check, if they don't have the ability to see invisibility, they still attack at a disadvantage + can't target you with many spells. If you're a Clockwork Soul sorcerer, you can get the non-detection spell and make yourself immune to trueseeing / see invisibility just as an added layer of defense on top of that.

Very expensive to pull off, but very powerful.

Right now, with Hide being a bonus action, this powerful combo is available to all spellcasters once they get greater invisibility... without the need to expend sorcery points to cast in the same turn. This is one of another design choices that haven't accounted for scaling.

I think the next pool will be about weapon skills ...

I feel thé need to say it : the word you are trying to use is poll.

A pool is were you go swimming.

I voted to stay faithfull to dnd rules, 2 fireballs in one round is too much. Plus in 5e cantrips get better at level 5 and 11.

That is not the only definition of pool, fyi. A pool can also be a collective of people or objects…or money (a kitty…not the meowing kind).

So from my understanding…Rag polled the large pool of players in this server and has benefited from their pooled collective knowledge…and will create a new poll to tap a different pool of players (or perhaps an overlapping pool) to talk about the existing and potential pool of weapons.

Now I need a swim (so I can mull over this poll and the forthcoming poll in the pool).