My thoughts and feedback: Main Story, Origin Characters, Single player feel - 25/04/21 12:06 PM
First of all, I love BG and Larian works both, I dont neccessarily feel that BG being like D:OS in certain aspects is a bad thing at all, many people called it a reskin but I dont feel that it would be a bad thing if handled well.
I also dont really care about combat, I enjoy it if its good but can also ignore it if I dont enjoy it much, my understanding of DnD is basic so I rarely get fully use out of the systems in these games anyways, so I wont talk about gameplay at all, even tho I understand it is very important if not most important for some people.
I play games for the story, the characters and to be immersed in the rich world and lore of DnD (Or pathfinder or what have you)
Its been kinda hard to articulate what doesnt feel great about the early access BG3 but I eventually narrowed it down to these three things in the title, they are interconnected to a degree but all these aspects, aspects I consider the most importnat, are flawed in a way that makes me enjoy the game less, so here I will try to explain why and how to possibly improve it.
Before that tho I want to say that I believe that this is still going to be an incredible game, the developers clearly have a lot of love and have already done immense amount of work. I dont really want to criticise as much as express my opinion and hope it will possibly affect the game that will increase my enjoyment of it.
So, my first and most important issue, the main story. Honestly, it feels hard to follow, much of it is missable and it feels barely coherent and connected. The opening is strong but once you are given the "timer" the game just lets you off and it feels incredibly weird, you get several very thin leads but you cant even consciously pick the one you want to follow as the map is gigantic and even on the way in the direction you chose to go you can run into things that will put you off that path or take you down an entirely different one. The main story so far feels like a collection of separate adventures where every lead is a different quest that is connected only by the thinnest of threads.
The companions react appropriately to what they feel is imminent doom, but while we, the players know we are in no actual danger at the moment, the characters, including ours do not, this is the inherent issue of giving us a timer like this but not providing any clear way to actually rush forward and try to at least learn that we are somewhat save as soon as possible. Thats on your Larian, you chose to put a death counter on our heads and yet let us wonder this world as much as we want without reprecussions, but honestly, I wouldnt mind this, if I had the feeling I am at least progressing towards a specific goal. We do have that goal but progressing towards it feels, as I said, like bunch of separate adventures that jus happen accidentally.
This I believe is in large part due to the world design and imo could be largely fixed by separating the world map into smaller places, like it was in previous Baldurs Gate games, this si something I hope will be added because the map already has several map icons, and it would also solve the issue where you can easily miss out on important plot elements if you do not take your time to explore everywhere, which feels very countrintuitive given that you are on said timer. You can add these interactions and important events as "random" encounters between the maps, its been done in the likes of Dragon Age Origins or Pathfinder Kingmaker and it works great in my opinion.
In regards to the main story not being very cohesive, or at least the pacing being off, I dont know how to improve that per say, but I do think more detailed journal system and more specific choices in terms of where to go and which quest you chose to follow would help. Also some kinda scene where you discuss it over with your companions and make a decision together, which way to pursue once you have more than one lead, they already express their opinions about it if asked anway.
This whole problem however stems from my second issue and that is the single player feel, by that I mean that the single player doesnt actually feel like its designed to be single player very much. From the way the game simply doesnt pause when you use esc., to the world being so large and interconnected, with multiple solutions to everything to account for more than one player at the time, it can be felt in pretty much all apects of the game.
This is certainly an unpopular opinion, given that many people will want to play this game with friends, at least upon further replays, but personally i do not plan to and I absolutely hate that the multiplayer level and game design from D:OS games is here in BG3. If anything, this is the thing I do not want taken from D:OS.
The game is simply designed for freedom of play, decision and movement of several players instead of one and it feels clunky and unwieldy (Is that a word?) when playing in single player. As I said before, being able to so easily miss out on important aspects of even the main plot, is imo down to this decision and the way multiplayer is implemented. It clear you wanted to follow the D:OS design philosophy of providing multiple ways to achieve and reach things and while this isnt neccessarily an issue even for single player, it makes the game feel incredibly disconnected, as if exploration was an enirely different part of gameplay than progressing the story and you simply cant avoid it.
This is a very hard thing to solve, id just mostly ask for better separation of single player and multiplayer, some of the issues can be aleviated with what I described above, cleaner ui, more information in journal, separate map, to give us better decision making, but it mostly comes down to the game feeling like its single player is the second most important, behind multiplayer and thats a feeling I very much dislike.
This has been an issue I had in D:OS 2 as well, I loved the lore and the story, but it was told in chunks and easily missable ones at that, it wasnt a coherent narrative the first time around at all and you know what, that was fine, because D:OS is a different series, but this is Baldurs Gate, again, this is the instance where just a new coat of paint on what you did in D:OS is not the best solution.
And my third issue, please correct me here if I am wrong, I very much wish to be wrong.
I hate the origin characters. I love them as companions, but the idea of origin characters is terrible and I am stunned its being continued with, especially in BG.
I disliked them in D:OS and in my four playthroughs I never played as one, I started a fifth playthrough recently but cant get into it very much, that is simply because I do not enjoy playing as someone else in these types of games. You even say that this game is about us as players, yet almost without a doubt the optimal way to play it, the best way to experience the most of the story and get the most out of the plot and lore, is to play as someone else, the origin characters.
You used the tag system in D:OS and that meant that no matter what you did, you could only ever as yourself with the few "ordinary" tags the game gave us, while the origin characters had access to the same "ordinary" tags + their own. Meaning unless you played as one of them, you were missing out on new events, conversations reactions, possibly even more lore or backround and different approach to quests and such.
This is so in your face oppossite of what these games are about, and I understand, you do not have to play as an origin character the enjoy the game, but as a person who wants to see and do all there is to do, it FEELS SUBOPTIMAL, or like a wrong choice, to play as your own created character. That is simply unforgivable.
And given the amount of questions about this I am not alone in this feeling. To this day nobody can really answer the question of what you are missing out if you do not play as Origin character, but most people agree that it is better to play as one to get more story.
Unless this gets properly explained or changed, many players, including me will feel like we made the wrong choices when playing as "us" and that is a horrible feeling to have. Yes, you can enjoy their stories as companions and get full understanding off it, but you will always know that there is more to it, as it is you simply heard it, but if you play as Origin character you can experience it, as well as everything else that the player character can and experiecing the story is exactly what we, or at least I want.
Id say scrap Origin characters as playable, but obviously that wouldnt happen, especially not on a word of a random fan, its too far into development and its clearly and idea you as developers want to have in your games, given that you brough it over despite the questions asked about it in D:OS 2. But I beg you, give us a proper explanation of what you will get and what you will miss out in relation to their stories when playing as OC instead of Origin character and make the gap of missable content as minimal as possible.
Another option for this would be giving us an option to experience crucial moments in their companion quests as them, letting us essentially switch with them and play as them for a while during the duration of the quest, which would make it far easier to experience the content locked behind playing as them and still play as us, also it would reduce the amount of unneccessary replays to see all the points of view of all the companions. Or let us hear their thoughts through the tadpole and answer as them, something like that, just dont make us play as them.
And thats it, not very eloquent and I am sure its hard to understand but I hope the main pointst get across. The short of it is, the main story barely feels like the main story, past certain point its just random adventures barely connected to the overall goal. The multiplayer design permieates the single player experience as well, something I feel like needs to be looked at and the Origin characters... well ideally they wouldnt be playable, instead expanded upon as companions, but if nothing else I would love to have a clear understanding of what I am missing by not wanting to play as one and having that missable content minimal.
I love BG and I love Larian works, even your older works were great games so I have full trust you will make this into a great game, I just hope its a great game that is just as enjoyable for me as it is for people who enjoy multiplayer, want to focus on exploration or enjoy playing as Origin characters as well, so far these issues simply take away from my enjoyment.
If I have gotten some thigns wrong do let me know and explain please (anyone who reads this) and if you agree/disagree and can help me in getting a better grasp on these issues id appreciate it.
I also dont really care about combat, I enjoy it if its good but can also ignore it if I dont enjoy it much, my understanding of DnD is basic so I rarely get fully use out of the systems in these games anyways, so I wont talk about gameplay at all, even tho I understand it is very important if not most important for some people.
I play games for the story, the characters and to be immersed in the rich world and lore of DnD (Or pathfinder or what have you)
Its been kinda hard to articulate what doesnt feel great about the early access BG3 but I eventually narrowed it down to these three things in the title, they are interconnected to a degree but all these aspects, aspects I consider the most importnat, are flawed in a way that makes me enjoy the game less, so here I will try to explain why and how to possibly improve it.
Before that tho I want to say that I believe that this is still going to be an incredible game, the developers clearly have a lot of love and have already done immense amount of work. I dont really want to criticise as much as express my opinion and hope it will possibly affect the game that will increase my enjoyment of it.
So, my first and most important issue, the main story. Honestly, it feels hard to follow, much of it is missable and it feels barely coherent and connected. The opening is strong but once you are given the "timer" the game just lets you off and it feels incredibly weird, you get several very thin leads but you cant even consciously pick the one you want to follow as the map is gigantic and even on the way in the direction you chose to go you can run into things that will put you off that path or take you down an entirely different one. The main story so far feels like a collection of separate adventures where every lead is a different quest that is connected only by the thinnest of threads.
The companions react appropriately to what they feel is imminent doom, but while we, the players know we are in no actual danger at the moment, the characters, including ours do not, this is the inherent issue of giving us a timer like this but not providing any clear way to actually rush forward and try to at least learn that we are somewhat save as soon as possible. Thats on your Larian, you chose to put a death counter on our heads and yet let us wonder this world as much as we want without reprecussions, but honestly, I wouldnt mind this, if I had the feeling I am at least progressing towards a specific goal. We do have that goal but progressing towards it feels, as I said, like bunch of separate adventures that jus happen accidentally.
This I believe is in large part due to the world design and imo could be largely fixed by separating the world map into smaller places, like it was in previous Baldurs Gate games, this si something I hope will be added because the map already has several map icons, and it would also solve the issue where you can easily miss out on important plot elements if you do not take your time to explore everywhere, which feels very countrintuitive given that you are on said timer. You can add these interactions and important events as "random" encounters between the maps, its been done in the likes of Dragon Age Origins or Pathfinder Kingmaker and it works great in my opinion.
In regards to the main story not being very cohesive, or at least the pacing being off, I dont know how to improve that per say, but I do think more detailed journal system and more specific choices in terms of where to go and which quest you chose to follow would help. Also some kinda scene where you discuss it over with your companions and make a decision together, which way to pursue once you have more than one lead, they already express their opinions about it if asked anway.
This whole problem however stems from my second issue and that is the single player feel, by that I mean that the single player doesnt actually feel like its designed to be single player very much. From the way the game simply doesnt pause when you use esc., to the world being so large and interconnected, with multiple solutions to everything to account for more than one player at the time, it can be felt in pretty much all apects of the game.
This is certainly an unpopular opinion, given that many people will want to play this game with friends, at least upon further replays, but personally i do not plan to and I absolutely hate that the multiplayer level and game design from D:OS games is here in BG3. If anything, this is the thing I do not want taken from D:OS.
The game is simply designed for freedom of play, decision and movement of several players instead of one and it feels clunky and unwieldy (Is that a word?) when playing in single player. As I said before, being able to so easily miss out on important aspects of even the main plot, is imo down to this decision and the way multiplayer is implemented. It clear you wanted to follow the D:OS design philosophy of providing multiple ways to achieve and reach things and while this isnt neccessarily an issue even for single player, it makes the game feel incredibly disconnected, as if exploration was an enirely different part of gameplay than progressing the story and you simply cant avoid it.
This is a very hard thing to solve, id just mostly ask for better separation of single player and multiplayer, some of the issues can be aleviated with what I described above, cleaner ui, more information in journal, separate map, to give us better decision making, but it mostly comes down to the game feeling like its single player is the second most important, behind multiplayer and thats a feeling I very much dislike.
This has been an issue I had in D:OS 2 as well, I loved the lore and the story, but it was told in chunks and easily missable ones at that, it wasnt a coherent narrative the first time around at all and you know what, that was fine, because D:OS is a different series, but this is Baldurs Gate, again, this is the instance where just a new coat of paint on what you did in D:OS is not the best solution.
And my third issue, please correct me here if I am wrong, I very much wish to be wrong.
I hate the origin characters. I love them as companions, but the idea of origin characters is terrible and I am stunned its being continued with, especially in BG.
I disliked them in D:OS and in my four playthroughs I never played as one, I started a fifth playthrough recently but cant get into it very much, that is simply because I do not enjoy playing as someone else in these types of games. You even say that this game is about us as players, yet almost without a doubt the optimal way to play it, the best way to experience the most of the story and get the most out of the plot and lore, is to play as someone else, the origin characters.
You used the tag system in D:OS and that meant that no matter what you did, you could only ever as yourself with the few "ordinary" tags the game gave us, while the origin characters had access to the same "ordinary" tags + their own. Meaning unless you played as one of them, you were missing out on new events, conversations reactions, possibly even more lore or backround and different approach to quests and such.
This is so in your face oppossite of what these games are about, and I understand, you do not have to play as an origin character the enjoy the game, but as a person who wants to see and do all there is to do, it FEELS SUBOPTIMAL, or like a wrong choice, to play as your own created character. That is simply unforgivable.
And given the amount of questions about this I am not alone in this feeling. To this day nobody can really answer the question of what you are missing out if you do not play as Origin character, but most people agree that it is better to play as one to get more story.
Unless this gets properly explained or changed, many players, including me will feel like we made the wrong choices when playing as "us" and that is a horrible feeling to have. Yes, you can enjoy their stories as companions and get full understanding off it, but you will always know that there is more to it, as it is you simply heard it, but if you play as Origin character you can experience it, as well as everything else that the player character can and experiecing the story is exactly what we, or at least I want.
Id say scrap Origin characters as playable, but obviously that wouldnt happen, especially not on a word of a random fan, its too far into development and its clearly and idea you as developers want to have in your games, given that you brough it over despite the questions asked about it in D:OS 2. But I beg you, give us a proper explanation of what you will get and what you will miss out in relation to their stories when playing as OC instead of Origin character and make the gap of missable content as minimal as possible.
Another option for this would be giving us an option to experience crucial moments in their companion quests as them, letting us essentially switch with them and play as them for a while during the duration of the quest, which would make it far easier to experience the content locked behind playing as them and still play as us, also it would reduce the amount of unneccessary replays to see all the points of view of all the companions. Or let us hear their thoughts through the tadpole and answer as them, something like that, just dont make us play as them.
And thats it, not very eloquent and I am sure its hard to understand but I hope the main pointst get across. The short of it is, the main story barely feels like the main story, past certain point its just random adventures barely connected to the overall goal. The multiplayer design permieates the single player experience as well, something I feel like needs to be looked at and the Origin characters... well ideally they wouldnt be playable, instead expanded upon as companions, but if nothing else I would love to have a clear understanding of what I am missing by not wanting to play as one and having that missable content minimal.
I love BG and I love Larian works, even your older works were great games so I have full trust you will make this into a great game, I just hope its a great game that is just as enjoyable for me as it is for people who enjoy multiplayer, want to focus on exploration or enjoy playing as Origin characters as well, so far these issues simply take away from my enjoyment.
If I have gotten some thigns wrong do let me know and explain please (anyone who reads this) and if you agree/disagree and can help me in getting a better grasp on these issues id appreciate it.