Rather disappointed that after 12 months since Early Access Release that you still can't progress beyond 4th Level. The Character Generation and progression system is already known, so it is hard to understand why you have to spend the majority of the game that is available already at Max Level.

Level 5 means that 3rd-level spells have to be implemented, this requires work (animations, sounds, mechanics) and class features. So, be patient until full release or (maybe) the next patch.

Given that to make it to Early Access there was a minimum viable product, which included 4th level, then 12 months is ample time to work it out in product. Of course a roadmap is always helpful in situations ..

Im much more disappointed about:
- thigs we still are missing on those 4 levels we have (like pacts for Warlock, spells for casters, weapons for everyone, the fact that there are only one generic armor per type, druid having the same limited options in shapeshifting without any option to learn another, etc.) ...
- things we have, but they dont work (like Devil's Sight, Loviathar's Scourge mace, etc.) ...
- things we have, are working by Larian design, but people wanted them changed (Action / bonus action ... there is lot of topics on this, so i will not even try to list them, but Shove can work as perfect example for all) ...
- and finaly things we have, was working by Larian design, at least some of us liked them as they were, but they were changed for worse (perfect example here is Action bar ... litteraly cant imagine anyone who would be happy about its reduction)

Seem kinda ridiculous to build something on broken basics. :-/
I would dare to say that until those things are fixed, it would be misstake from Larian to start looking for next level ... wich would mean another bunch of problems.

What do you mean? Larian never claimed to offer more then 4 levels during Early Access (or Alpha test or whatever it should be called).

It is not Early Access, like lets say Hades, that will grow and grow until the game wraps up development. It is a testing ground that Larian uses for, well, testing, until they finish working on the game. If Larian will want to test higher levels, then they will add them in. If they feel they don't have a need for that, then most likely they won't.

I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that Patch 7 will be the last update before the game leaves Early Access, and that if they do decide to release more levels, it will be through that update.

I'm not sure if you're being very optimistic (you think it will be a relatively short time until full release) or very pessimistic (you think we'll only get 1 more patch in the next ~16 months). But in a recent interview Swen basically confirmed full release wouldn't be until 2023.

So it's more likely that we'll get ~3-4 additional patches before full release. Maybe one in January-March, one in late summer/early fall 2022, and then a final one in early 2023. Hopefully one of them will have level 5.

Not according to the recent interview. There will be a longer break then usual before patch 7 arrive, but there are to be multiple further updates after:

Agreed with more content, level 5 is needed.
I hit level 4 around the blight village.

Level 4 don't inspired me to do a dual class, most level one skills are useless in the underdark.
I would like a Sorcerer lvl 3 with wizard lvl 2 to make use of short rest.

I think one major update for each missing class ( Monk, Paladin and Bard ), with level 5, karlach and balancing the game ( headband of intellect at 17 :'( )

The game needs much more time. 2023 would be ok but release in 2022 would be terrible. There is a lot to do.

yeah like its not that big of a deal to let us level past 4. Modders legit had higher levels up and running for patch 3 when it was out, I haven't checked since but it pissed me off. I was so excited to explore the new area then once I found out we are still capped at level 4 it took all my joy out. I also hope we get multiclassing so I can become a coffeelock.

I'm being pessimistic and basing my guess on Original Sin I&II.
Original Sin was in Early Access for half a year, and Original Sin II was in Early Access for a year, so I figured that Baldur's Gate III might be released around April, 2022, with an improved version being released in 2023.


I hope that's true.
There's a lot of improvements that the game would be worse without, and a lot of testing that probably can't be done without multiclassing and the other classes and levels, since some spells, actions and features aren't available right now.

As others have said, being capped really takes the joy out of the game for me. Most of the EA remains unexplored every time I play because of this; I'd rather make a new character.

I understand there are reasons for this and a mod fixes it (installed it yesterday, haven't tested it), but IMHO each patch with new content should slightly raise the level cap.

I wonder if you realize that in such case we would be waiting for those patches at least twice as long. O_o

IMO they miscalculated. I am sure at least we could reach level 6 in AE. So a final level cap around level 10 would be to low (if there are more then act I). So they have to give you less XP during the begining hence they have to cancel some enemies cause you are not as powerful as now. Of course later you won't level up as fast as now but they they have to make sure that you do not reach the final level cap way before the end. So either they increase the final level cap up to 15 (maybe 20) or they decrease the amount of XP during act 1. But playing without level up is boring.

I'd rather play 6 more monthes capped at level 4 until they fix what has to be and add what's missing than adding new problems with level 5 right now.

+1

The counterargument to this is that adding level 5 will exacerbate the current problems, making them more obvious (hopefully) to Larian that they need fixing. E.g., we'll actually see what the effect of double fireball is (triple with quicken+haste and a scroll), UI problems due to a whole additional level's worth of spells, how Larian implements Extra Attack, etc.

That's a good point !

Wait you could double cast Fireball?
I thought that Fireball is the same as Shatter, just with Fire instead of Thunder. O_o

And you cant double cast Shatter.

Haven't tested it myself but you mean you can't currently double cast shatter using Quicken? Because the problem with Larians implementation of Quicken is that it turns any spell into a bonus action spell(which it should) but also allows you to cast a leveled spell during your attack turn(which it shouldn't)

or do you mean that Shatter can't be twinned cast? That is because Shatter aint a single target spell.

^
Yes, I'm referring to Quicken or (potions of) Haste, not Twin. It's possible that Larian's implementation of Quicken/Haste won't be broken, given all the other buffs they've added to characters/classes. But level 5+ would be very useful for testing this.

Yes with both potions of Haste, or Quickened you can cast it again ... i was talking about Twinned spell.

Seems to me like there is a lot of discuission about this topic ... and the answer isnt far so clear as you put it ...
Yes i know there is litteraly written rule about this, but i also know that there is A LOT of people who are ignoring this rule ...

I'm skeptical of this. You personally know an all-caps LOT of people who ignore this rule for Quicken and Haste specifically? Because I haven't seen much evidence on the forums of this, and one of the most basic and strongest guidelines about homebrew is that you shouldn't mess with the action economy.

I have seen posts from people who allow normal bonus action spells to be cast with leveled spells (are you referring to these people?), but they exempt Quickened bonus action spells from this allowance. And many other posters argue against that homebrew, saying it's unbalanced. I've seen no posts from people who allow Hasted characters to cast another spell in their tabletop games. Unless you're saying you do, in which case 1 person is still not "A LOT."

Anyways, this is off-topic. The point is that level 5 will show how broken (or not) this implementation is. If you like this implementation, you should want level 5 to be released to prove that "it's balanced." If you think this implementation is unbalanced you should also want level 5 in order to prove it.

Of course i want level 5 ...
Just not now ... right now i want them to finish previous 4 levels, and when they are DONE and i mean actualy done, not done by saying "this is all we are going to implement for theese" ...

Then its time for level 5, but not sooner.

I am very frustrated about the level cap.
Just bought the game a few weeks ago, really like playing the game and then level cap 4?
Oh my, that really kills the fun. I'm playing tabletop 5e & PF, levelling is part of the biggest fun in these games!

Guessing you didn't read the part about this being the biggest game they've made... Personally I'm guessing we have over 24 months before release.

Aaaand once it is there's going to be massive balance issues because the entire game has been made to level 4.

Honestly if i knew this was going to be the state of the game after 12 months, would not have bought it and have already steered people away from buying it, not because it's EA, but what they're implementing in place of finishing the game proper is insulting. They keep adding flavour without fixing anything and development of character is non existent. Everybody whining for more flavour before the game's done and it's just depressing. Implement sorceror draconic origins, make the games max level cap a nothing level 10. Because honestly, level 10 is a nothing level and playing a Baldurs Gate game to be stuck to that level.... might as well play the first one again.

I could even live with 36 months until release. As long as we get to see something new time and again this is exciting times for me: watching the game grow.

I can't really say if i agree or not. I guess that depends . If we stay at lvl 4, fix all problems, get new problems with lvl 5 that could have been avoided with an ealier raise of the cap, then no. If, after removing the issues we now have we go on and fix stuff above the cap without too many problems, i would agree, no matter how much i would love lvl 5 +.

Guesswork...so regarding this we can only wait and see if larians plan works out. "we told you so" threads will show up in both cases.

My only fear is how long this will take if we continue with this pace and that everything becoes rushed the closer we get to release. I would rather have everything so that we can at least help clear up the most grievious stuff. Having really big bugs of gamebreaking errors after release is not good.

And (i said this elsewhere already): Larian has a lot of paying and willing testers with a lot of knowledge on D&D 5e mechanics and lore at hand and they hardly use them. If i were larian i would use them, they bought the game anyway already. So having a finshed "bug-free" game to release would be the way to go, marketing wise.

The better the game is at release, the more people will buy. May sound a bit simplified but thats the crux of it.

I'm off two minds about this. Implementing lvl 5 could be a very time consuming effort and every addition to EA is likely to add time onto the final release. Most classes wouldn't be that hard, since multiattack is already in the game and increasing Sneak Attack damage from 2d6 to 3d6 can't be that hard once they've figured out going from 1d6 to 2d6. But 3rd level spells are a whole other monster. That's a whole lot of animations and effects that need to be programmed and playtested enough to work in EA.

On the other hand, lvl 5 is the first major powerbump for most characters and it seems likely that we will be lvl 5, or just shy of it, when we first enter the final couple of areas of the EA. These areas also feel like they weren't designed for lvl 4 characters. Giving us the option to reach lvl 5 would probably give them a lot of useful data for tuning the difficulty of these areas. If they collect data for the Grymforge and Underdark for lvl 4 characters and tune these areas accordingly, but most people reach lvl 5 by then, the difficulty curve will be all over the place. Which is definitely my impression of the Original Sin games.

Well, this is a never ending cycle then, isn't it? I mean, there could be problems at every level until the actual cap of the game, whatever that may be.

It's taking "so long" because while people are working on EA, others are working on the full game. I have no idea where they're at with Act's 2 or 3, or if it's even following a 3 act formula, do you? Do you have some links?

The thing about using "lots of 5e players" is that the game will never be released, because they won't agree on what's a priority, and what can be "homebrewed".

The better the game is at release is indeed important. However, from my own perspective, I'm not looking for a 1 to 1 conversion of 5e rules, just like I didn't play BG 1 and 2 because of their implementation of that rule system. I didn't see the title, then look at what rules they were going to use. I saw the title, and got hyped. It's really easy to dismiss me as some kind of anomaly, but I'm betting that that would be wrong. I wonder how many read the warnings on the store front of their choice, and decided to wait until release? Of those, I wonder how many will be thinking "if it's not a 1 to 1 conversion of 5e rules, I'm not buying". I'm sure there will be some, we've got them here already. I'm also sure that there will be some that will check the "No" box on whether a review that focuses on how well it's converted into 5e was helpful in their purchase decision.

I'm more worried about story, and playability. The ruleset is irrelevant, to me. Perfect 5e implementation or not, it doesn't matter. If the story can't make me look at my clock and realize that I'm fixing to go to bed when it's almost time to get up, the game will fail, for me, and the ruleset won't be a factor at all.

That's the problem isn't it? We know only what we see and go on guessing, hoping and worrying from there on.

I just wrote that i cannot understand some of larians reasoning for doing or neglecting something. And that i would do differently, at least based on what i know and see.

But normally a snail does not suddenly grow feet to run. So if it's going on like this, there may well be a lot of the aforementioned problems. Personally i'd rather know what is coming than having my hopes crushed.

It may well be that the game and it changes are at a totally different state than what we see now and we are still making threads about issues long resolved internally. (not that i really believe that though).

I didn't participate in the DoS 2 EA, but anecdotal evidence suggests that what released, compared to what was in the EA was different. That's enough for me to have a bit of faith, along with the fact that I'm not putting a lot of effort into playing this EA every day. I don't want to burn myself out on it before I have the full game in my hands.

If you're right, that could be good, aside from the balance issues.
I think that the Early Access version not having more levels and acts isn't how a game in Early Access should be, especially if the game's going to be big and take that long to release.


I wouldn't say it's watching the game grow, since they have probably already finished a lot more than whatever they're going to throw to players during the rest of the game's development, and they also don't seem to be telling players that much if anything about how the game is actually progressing.

More or less, all boils down to a lack of communication yet again...

kinda frustrating to see it again and again...

Not me, in jsut over a year I'm going to be legally blind thanks to multiple issues, this was the last chance at having something to enjoy that I've been looking forward to for nearly 20 years and now it's just another disappointment.

edit... over 20 years.