Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General KAGHA

What do you mean I can't take this brooding tsundere on a quest with me?
Having her and Minthara at the camp at the same time, and have those funny chaotic evil vs lawful evil interactions could be a lot of fun. Instead I'm left with emo half-elf and that noseless goblin. Thanks Larian.
What were you even thinking?

I just want my Druid the be able to join the Shadow Druids

I don't want to join the shadow druids... I just want their outfits.

I want every NPC to drop their outfit.

KAGHA and Minthara are enemies in the plot, if I'm not mistaken. And if you choose between the two, it is obvious that Minthara is better. But I definitely agree, the evil elf Kagha would be a hundred times better than those terrible companions whom they plan to introduce in the next acts - a strange archer tiefling (Why are all tieflings so "Good"?), a halfling transgender werewolf, or whatever. Down with such creativity, Larian, give more charismatic elves like Astarion, Kagha, Minthara. Everyone loves elves (dark drow and normal). And the Succubus/Demons like Raphael!

However, Shadow Heart and Laezel are normal companions, no need to offend them. Although I have doubts that SH will be able to really surprise with something in the future, despite the loud talk about SH secrets... but that's just for now, I think Larian has a plan that we'll see later

Kagha would certainly be interesting choice for companion ...
But also completely ilogical. :-/

Either she is evil, and therefore she cares about nothing but her own Druid circle.
Or she is redeemed, amd therefore she stay in the Grove waiting for her punishment.

How would you like to fit joining our party to her story? O_o

Nettie would make much more sence, after all she wanted to find Halsin and while she is "too weak" to pursue him by herself, she could accept our help as bodyguards.

Also that mention of having both Kagha and Minthara in camp ...
I would like to know how you want to achieve that, since they both want to kill each other. O_o

And sliders to adjust body size and ratio's.

Thanks for the info. I was going to stomach the obnoxious gay gnome duo, but this a bit too much for my taste. The more you know.

Nettie would be difficult for me, because I kill her every single playthrough.

Necromancy = problem solved a fitting outcome if I do say so myself.

Thats understandable, i have simmilar problem with Astarion. :-/

Based Chad Chadd is correct. What kind of a high-fantasy game is this if I can't have a tsundere elf and yandere dark elf in a party and risk losing my head attempting a threesome?!? HELLO LARIAN STUDIOS HUGE MISSED OPPORTUNITY.

Agreed. However, given that Larian's writers railroad even Druid PCs by limting them to repetitive pro Tiefling dialog choices, with no references to the parasitic and thieving relationship that the Tiefs perpetuate towards the Druids who feed them scarce food and shelter them from goblinoids (only 'evil' Kagha is allowed to even mention something so politically incorrect but glaringly obvious), don't expect such a enticing choice! You can't even trigger mass Tiefling animosity to support the Shadow Druids by killing Zevlor, Tilsis, etc, and the Tiefling child thieves such as Mol are immortal! Killing Dammon only triggers members of his trader caravan, and also triggers Druid Halfling merchant Arron, while putting those virtue signaling exhibitionist "anti thief" lecturing parents of Arabella out of their misery (did they JUST notice that Arabella, like most of her peers, was already an accomplished career thief?) triggers the Druids and the bear guarding the entrance to the Grove. Odd how you can kill cute but irredeemably malicious Goblin children such as One and Three with impunity, but can't do this with less cute but just as irredeemably evil Tiefling children.

Unlike Halsin, Nettie hasn't forgotten her responsibilities to her Grove and its' humanoid as well as non humanoid inhabitants.

I'm curious about where you're getting this from, and am interested in hearing you explain it to me.

- Halsin offered a group of refugees shelter from the more-dangerous-than-usual situation of the goblin encampment.
- The teiflings take the space granted to them for this and contribute in some ways where they can (and where the druids *let* them contribute), such as serving in the grove's defence - on its front line, no less. When the assault comes, most of the tieflings will be dead long before even a single grove druid even mildly risks coming under attack.
- There is NO food shortage and NO water shortage. That is an outright fabrication and a lie by Kagha, and in fact it's ridiculous that any of the druids bought it even for a moment, because they are also druids... Unless the Kagha supporting druids are complicit in the lie, which they are telling to the tieflings who they expect will not know better... it's the only way it can make any kind of sense. They literally live on a fresh water river, and their grove is full of many druids who ALL have at least 1st level casting capabilities - they could comfortably feed half a city every day and not run out of food.
- The tieflings are here as refugees, on a journey elsewhere, and are not seeking to perpetuate this situation at all; they are looking forward to being able to leave and continue on towards their destination, as soon as the immediate danger has passed.


Now you're just being abjectly hateful - you're talking about openly murdering a pair of parents who are afraid that the acting leader of the grove they have been Offered shelter in is going to Kill their pre-teen child (and in fact WILL do so if you don't intervene), for a childish act of petty theft, which she failed at. One of the people in this scenario is acting like an evil monster - it's not any of the tieflings.


Anyone who wants to go around throwing the term 'irredeemably evil' at mortal race children should not be making any kind of judgement. They aren't evil - that's just factual, in the realms setting. Fiends are evil. Tieflings are not fiends.

Is it right that we can kill the goblin children, but can't kill the tiefling children? No it's not; they should be treated the same... but it's a far cry from that to branding literal children as irredeemably evil and deserving of death - the only monstrous person in that situation is the one saying that in the first place. Mol is a piece of work, sure - not because she's a tiefling, but because she's just plain a nasty piece of work... but she's also a Larian staple. You'll find an exact character clone of her in their last game as well. She makes no sense and cannot/would not actually exist, and you can guarantee, because it's Larian, that when we get to Baldur's Gate, Mol will be running a competition thieves guild under the city and actually making it work... and mysteriously has knowledge and wiles beyond the possibility of her eight years, and is conducting dealings with hardened adult criminals and not being simply eliminated for trying to poke her childishly infantile nose into dangerous situations. Because Larian likes to recycle their ideas wholesale.


So... if you've got the time and energy... explain your perspective to me; I'm curious at how you arrived at it.

@Niara, Role playing as a Shadow Druid - I can see his point. "You can't even trigger mass Tiefling animosity to support the Shadow Druids by"... pretty much sums it up. The shadow druids rightly turn on you EVEN when you expose them; however, there needs to be a trigger that allows them to see you can be a "trusted" member. Exposing the shadow druids (no matter your inclinations) goes against their code.

There should be an option to force or persuade the Tiefs to leave the grove (Instead of genocide. Even Kahga doesn't really want to go that far unless forced to, she tries to get you to convince them to leave and I a sure she would have talked to them until she was red in the face.) - allow Kagha to lock the grove up (no longer able to access it) and IF you know about the shadow druid plot (but dont say anything) they will come to you later and allow you membership (ie one of them saw you read the note in the swamp...). Mind you as per the shadow druid code - if you decline they attack, you know to much. Great option to wipe them out quest or they will from time to time send alligned assassins.

Shadow Druids believe that nature should drive out civilization with violence if needed (granted this is a simple summary). Nature is a creative force that when balanced, improves upon itself over time. It is impossible to balance the needs of nature and the needs of civilization as civilization is a destructive force that must consume relentlessly to maintain itself. The Tiefs represent this stain of civilization, they eat more than they bring in, their waste pollute, their garbage piles up, nature has to make way to sustain them. A shadow druid does not see the need to baby sit a bunch of folks by feeding them a bunch of Goodberries all day and cleaning up their fecal mess. If they cant adapt and survive as a part of nature then they will die - that is their idea of balance. The point that there are limited supplies is due to the havok being cause by the Absolute goons and the need to lock up and preserve the grove until the threat has passed. Cant gather goods with goblin patrols and a bunch of Tiefs eating it all.

The general arguments you make above would be the point of a non-shadow druid. Shadow druids are (as someone said) eco-terrorist. So yeah I agree with both post =) especially about the children.

As the great sage Dak'kon once said, "Balance in all things".

There should, perhaps, be a way to tell the game "Yes, I'm just attacking all the Elturel refugees wholesale right now" ... But if you do that at any point before the Druids act to expel them then you are, and I want to be clear about this regardless of your character's philosophical alignments - attacking a group of non-combatant refugees who are currently under the ward and protection of the druids circle, of which you are also a guest. Yes, all the druids will attack you as well. Many of them may have been swayed by Kagha's lies, and many may not appreciate the presence of the Elturel refugees in their grove, but that doesn't change the fact that they are, currently, under their protection.

A way to connect with the Shadow druids may be an interesting idea in principle, but every evil faction or enemy organisation cannot be made into an ally-able path or the game will never be finished - some enemies have to remain enemies - I don't think the option to identify as a shadow druid is really a tenable one going forward beyond this one event, in a way that makes valuable sense for the game.


She is never forced to. It is her choice. That's kind of the point. You can SAY: "Oh, I don't *want* to genocidally kill this entire village of people, I really don't WANT to, unless I absolutely have to, but you see, they're in the way of my plans, so I HAVE to, they're forcing my hand!!" It doesn't make it true. You weren't forced to - you chose to. This is Kagha's position. She is never forced to do anything. When she murders a small child in front of everyone over petty theft, and then makes excuses to you about protecting her people, and victim-blames the dead girl with racist remarks, that's all her choice. No-one forced her to do it - she took that upon herself.


They specifically call out food shortages: This. Is. A. Lie. There is no food shortage and they live on a fresh water river. Kagha claims that the grove cannot support the refugees - this is a bare-faced lie as well. The grove is large enough to support the number of people inside it. If they were all druids or druid affiliates, no-one would be complaining, because the grove is actually very much large enough to support them all comfortably, and there is no food or water shortage at all. The refugees might need to learn to live natively, as the druids do, if they're stuck there for a while, but there is very much no problem with them staying... as, to remind, they were invited to do by the grove's leader, who knows what the grove can and cannot support, and were offered safety and protection by him until the immediate threat was passed.

Citing that it's too dangerous for the druids to go out and gather supplies - they aren't willing to because it's too dangerous - then completely undermines any degree of sense that the "harmonise with nature or die" argument might have once made, for putting the Elturel refugees out to be killed by goblins. IF it's so dangerous that the druids themselves won't go out, then they have NO grounds for using that argument to justify sending non-combatant refugees out there right now.

On one playthrough, after speaking with Kagha, I attempted to talk to Zevlor. I simply told him he and the other tieflings had to leave. He attacked me! And when I left his cave, all the other tieflings were hostile as well. I fear these tieflings are a rougher sort than many imply, hell-bent on murdering me a ' guest of the grove'. Perhaps it has yet to be revealed that the tielflings are actually a band of murderers and thieves hiding out in the grove from the lawful authorities. I admit I didn't see the homicidal nature of the tieflings in other playthroughs, it was an eye-opener.

Then, strangely, the druids attacked me as well. This was after one of them conned me out of 48 gold because they said I did something wrong. I was the injured party here! Also, Halsin didn't even care. We were buddies after I removed the goblin leadership and sprung him out of jail. He seemed very happy about everything. There was seriously something fishy going on in that grove, and I think I removed a major headache for him, though he never mentioned it.