Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback The D&D experience: Armor Class

Hello everyone,

I created a new character recently, after some time not playing, and something occured to me regarding the game. Something that doesn't have to do with actual mechanics in the game, but rather the way the game present itself to us players.

Not long ago, an update was implemented that made rolling the dice a more satisfying experience, True, it included a rework of the dice rolling system, but it is mostly visual in the way we players experience it. I welcomed the change gleefully, as it is (imho) a clear improvement for the game. This is the kind of thing I want to discuss in this thread.

I have noticed that Armor Class, an arguably crucial feature of D&D, is all but invisible in BG3, buried as it is in the character sheet (that, to my surprise, isn't something you open that often in the game). It is simply never mentioned.
Now, you obviously don't care a whole lot about your AC if you create, say, a mage or a sorcerer, or even a moon circle druid. But while controling Lae'zael, I noticed that I didn't really feel as though she was tougher. Attacks aimed at her didn't make me feel better for the rest of the party, and overall while playing, I don't really care for AC that much. In fact, in all my play-throughs, I have got to say that I pretty much consider defensive stats as dump stats.

As a d&d player, I know I should care about my defensive stats. But as a BG3 player, I simply don't feel the need for them. I don't try to improve them, which is surprising given in D&D, levels 1 through 3 are when players are at their most vulnerable. And yet, in BG3, the focus is clearly on upgrading your weapons (what with all those +1 weapons in the grove and the blues and greens you find pretty easily).

A youtuber, not long ago, made a video about things to be improved upon in BG3, and included in that list the way shields are displayed. Similarly, I think AC should play a greater role in the game. I think being excited for a particularly shiny but cumbersome armor is good for the game, and players who fantasize about creating a character that gets as close to invulnerable as the game will allow it should have the opportunity to FEEL that they built something powerful and legendary.

And so, I wish that AC was more present in the game. Maybe when an attack misses, the game could display the roll that failed against the AC of the character that the attack just missed, maybe lines of dialogue could be added to the game when certain characters reach a certain AC that mention how well protected (or cowardly) they are. Maybe, instead of the animation being always about dodging an attack that missed, a "cling" noise could be added when a blade hits, but fails to damage an armored character.

In any case, the game feels pretty sweet right now I think, and I can't wait for the release

One thing is certain - stacking your ac with plate and shield just so the game can display your character “dodging” more swings is really poor.

I really hate how playing a full metal tank in BG3 feels like you're Legolas. Combat is completely lacking impact and weight.

Armor is really poorly displayed from a mechanical view as well. The player has no idea how much damage your armor or shield actually prevents because every miss is a dodge. If we actually saw the shield blocks and armor soaks we would get an idea how much damage they prevent.

That doesnt sound like DnD thing tho ...
As far as i know, blocks and armor in DnD allways prevent either all damage (from single strike), or none of it. O_o
Armor that prevents partial amount of damage is more like Dragon Age thing. O_o

It would be nice tho if game would react differently than just "miss", "miss", "miss". :-/
It indeed look a little weird if my Halfling is unable to "hit" an Ogre on 5f range.

On the other hand, lets be honest with each other, its just matter of flavour ... technically things will stay just the same as they are, and there are bigger problems to solve. :-/

Ya ragnarokCzD is right I think, partial damage is usually related to none physical damage. half damage from a spell related to a save throw, but touch attacks if I remember correctly do attack the AC. Been to long, just going off the top of my head.

What doesn't "sound like a D&D thing"?

In D&D armor is abstracted into blocking all damage or nothing.

When it blocks all damage it could be displayed as such.

Who said anything about blocking partial damage?

Yeah, rag is misunderstanding what people are saying.

Seems pretty clear to me. O_o

Yes. By raising your AC, they prevent you from taking damage from attacks that otherwise would have hit you. Nobody is talking about DR.

I dunno what is DR ...
Premise was about amount of damage ... armor dont affect amount of damage, it affect probability that you will be damaged (or not).

Damage reduction, back in 3.5 monster races usually had DR. Probably hasn't changed since 5th but donno

Edit* I don't have my 3.5 books on me so I can't look it up 4e changed the wording to Resist so it would be say resist 5 fire or whatever.

DR is probably "damage reduction". Like, getting X% damage less. Or flat amount of damage prevented, like Armour / Warding in Wildermyth (and countless other games, too).

I think it should be very easy to implement. For example, depending on the attack roll that missed:

• If an enemy rolls 10 or below on the die, no defensive animation is necessary - blade is barely swung, arrow flies in a completely wrong direction, etc. (Of course, if they roll 10- and still hit, that would be very unfortunate, but it's not a miss anymore, so doesn't relate to the topic). If anything, the attack itself should have a "clumsy" animation.
• If the roll, including modifiers, is between your AC-5 and AC-1 (so that it still misses, but it's close!) the animation of the attacked character should depend on the armour type. Dodge for light, blocking with shield (if equipped) and weapon for heavy armour. Medium can go either way, for example, depending on the character's STR / armour weight ratio. I can easily picture Laezel dodging attacks in her half-plate, but definitely not in anything heavier than that.

Apart from just looking livelier, this will give players a very realistic and immersive cue about the battle they find themselves in. If you see that your tank almost always blocks, you might be in trouble!

this +1

add in parry or a armor hit

Oh, certainly. Parry, battement, whatever. The more the merrier.

+1 for different text & animations dependent on the attack roll and armor type

I think it should have an element of randomness for variety's sake, e.g. if the enemy rolls between 10 and AC-1:

• Light Armor: 80% chance your character dodges (text says "dodged!"), 20% blocked with armor
• Medium Armor: 50% chance of each
• Heavy Armor 20% dodge, 80% block
• Shield: If the player is wearing a shield, they block it with the shield 30% of the time, appropriately subtracting ^ percentages

Something like that. This way both Dex and Armor feel effective. Larian could also add in a percent chance for parry if the character is dual wielding or using the parry ability, etc.

Alternatively, Larian could do exact calculations where if the attack roll is between 10 and the armor AC, it hits the armor; if it's between the armor AC and the Dex bonus, it's dodged, etc.

+1

And to add to it, HP specific animations. HP represents Strain, Stamina, and your ability to turn major wounds into minor cuts. So, you shouldn't see a ton of blood every time you are hit. Only when HP = 0 should major blood be seen. The last blow, big or small in terms of HP loss, represents that the character finally slipped up because they were worn down. At last, the blade, or whatever, struck vital organs, etc. Until that last blow, it's all flesh wounds. This is why a long rest heals full health. It's because the party spends time bandaging flesh wounds and non-lethal injuries.

Only an instant kill is a super major injury that should be animated as a decapitation or running someone through the heart, etc. with tons of blood and gore. Critical Hits, even, aren't lethal per se. They just represent getting hit in a weak spot. You could literally only lose a few hit points even with a Critical Hit, symbolizing things like getting hit in the head, but it was a minor glancing blow.

+1, weighted probabilities of different options will be definitely better. A couple of minor notes:

• Clothing - no real armour blocking capability here, I'd say 80% dodge + 20% weapon block / parry animation.
• Light Armor: 80% chance your character dodges (text says "dodged!"), 20% blocked with armor weapon(s). I don't think it's feasible to block maul or, worse yet, heavy flail with leather armour. I definitely don't feel any urge to try such a stunt myself.
• Medium Armor: 50% chance of each - Agree on principle, although ideally I would shift the breakpoint on the distribution curve depending on STR and armour weight. For example, if armour weighs 15% of carried weight or below, dodge might become somewhat prevalent. Another extreme, if armour weighs > 30% of carry capacity, I don't think it's easy to dodge with such a weight. Possible, but not easy.
• Heavy Armor 20% dodge, 80% block - Parry animation should still be appropriate here. Say, 15% dodge + 60% armour block + 25% weapon block / parry.
• Shield: If the player is wearing a shield, they block it with the shield 30% of the time, appropriately subtracting ^ percentages - I'd say 40-60%. It's a shield, after all. Haven't you played Dark Souls?..

Additionally, DEX can shift the breakpoints somewhat. Positive DEX modifier can increase the chance of dexterity-based animations, such as dodge and parry. Lower DEX will favour blocks. This way, Astarion's responses to attacks will be markedly different from those of Shadowheart.

However, the exact numbers are not important at this point. Here's an idea in its most raw form; if Larian will ever decide to go down this rabbit hole, they can fine-tune it themselves.

It doesn't need to be so complicated. This is how I do it in Tabletop:

Target AC is 10 + Dex/Ability Modifiers + Shield + Armor + Magic Enhancements

Using cleric as example with Dex 16 (+3), a shield and studded leather armor and +2 for Haste. 16 HP

Any roll of less than 10 = Raw dodge. This means enemy fires or shoots and character dodges it by fading back for a moment or dodging to the side, etc. Like the game does now.

10-12 = Dodge + Deflect with weapon or shield (if wielded) because it represents ability to react quickly above and beyond someone's normal dodge ability. This would be sidestep while slapping enemy weapon to the side with the flat of your blade (or shield because if wielding a shield that is your primary defense), or something to that effect. Monks and Barbarians and Dragon blooded Sorcerers would do this more often with Unarmored Defense, etc.

13-14 = Block with shield. This is full on enemy weapon would hit you if you didn't have a shield so you threw it up to block. Enemy blade or whatever slams hard into the shield. Only applies if wielding a shield.

15-16 = enemy weapon hits but glances off armor. Only applies if wearing armor. This represents how if you didn't have armor, you'd certainly be cut.

17-18 = if it wasn't for the haste spell, he'd been hit, so enemy weapon glances off armor while character is Dodge + Deflect, all at the same time. Only applies if magical enhancement enabled.

19+ = Hit target. Rolls damage. Gets 8. Takes off half target damage = slash through armor on chest. Minor blood spilled but nothing severe. Nothing a bandage and some medicine can't help dull the pain to put you back in action.

Second hit. Does 2 damage = hit shoulder. Very little blood. It's just a scratch. Third hit. Does 5 more. Slashes side. About same blood as first attack.

Final hit. Rakes gut. Considerable blood gushes out onto the ground. Target staggers and falls. OR hit target in the head. Considerable blood gushes out of head wound. OR does critical hit and takes off 17 total damage (remaining damage + max HP). Insta-killed. Head lobbed off or run through the stomach or chest or even hacked in half. Ain't no coming back from that.

A computer could do this easily.

Seems like kinda too much effort to just have different message and 1sec animation. O_o

Yeah, but it'd be cool.