Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
The rules of Familiars are as follows:

You gain the service of a familiar, a spirit that takes an animal form you choose: bat, cat, crab, frog (toad), hawk, Lizard, Octopus, owl, Poisonous Snake, fish (quipper), rat, raven, Sea Horse, Spider, or Weasel. Appearing in an unoccupied space within range, the familiar has the Statistics of the chosen form, though it is a Celestial, fey, or fiend (your choice) instead of a beast.

Your familiar acts independently of you, but it always obeys your commands. In Combat, it rolls its own Initiative and acts on its own turn. A familiar can't Attack, but it can take other Actions as normal.

When the familiar drops to 0 Hit Points, it disappears, leaving behind no physical form. It reappears after you cast this spell again.

While your familiar is within 100 feet of you, you can communicate with it telepathically. Additionally, as an action, you can see through your familiar's eyes and hear what it hears until the start of your next turn, gaining the benefits of any Special Senses that the familiar has. During this time, you are deaf and blind with regard to your own Senses.

As an action, you can temporarily dismiss your familiar. It disappears into a pocket dimension where it awaits your summons. Alternatively, you can dismiss it forever. As an action while it is temporarily dismissed, you can cause it to reappear in any unoccupied space within 30 feet of you.

You can't have more than one familiar at a time. If you cast this spell while you already have a familiar, you instead cause it to adopt a new form. Choose one of the forms from the above list. Your familiar transforms into the chosen creature.

Finally, when you Cast a Spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its Reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an Attack roll, you use your Attack modifier for the roll.



Nowhere in these rules does it say that your familiar vanishes every time you take a Long Rest. In fact, in standard tabletop D&D, players often have a familiar keep watch, as it is a magical creature and I make it so they don't need sleep. (Notice, nothing in the above rules says they need sleep, and they're magical constructs, not actual animals.)

So, I am suggesting to Larian that they do not make it so that Familiars and Animal Companions unsummon. They should not. You should be able to summon them on Day 1 when you crash on the beach, and if you are smart about them and keep them alive, you should be able to keep them with you the entire adventure without ever having to summon them again. Thus, on Day 2, you can have your Familiar in the party without using a spell slot to summon them, etc.

As for Animal Companions for Rangers and such, you either have one or you don't. Again, they shouldn't unsummon. You pick your companion, and they remain with you at all times until they die. You can't summon another animal companion unless you dismiss the one you have or it dies. Then and only then can you summon another - and you should have to wait for a Long Rest to summon another if the one with you presently died. If you dismissed it, you could summon another right away, but if it died, you should have to wait for at least a day to summon another. Call it grieving or just you not having another animal available right away - whatever - the point is that the penalty for it dying should be no companion for a day. Animal Companions for Rangers are friends, not magical construct pets, so you shouldn't just be able to summon them like magic spells.

I will say, however, I do like that you can just summon an Animal Companion rather than having to find one and charm it. Especially since there are no animals to charm, really, in the game. Although hunting for and charming an animal companion can be a mini-game of sorts, I'm not a fan of it. When I level up and become a Ranger Beastmaster, I'd like to get a pet immediately. I don't want to have to go hunting for one and then charm it and such like in some games. So that I very much appreciate.

Finally, Animal Companions should differ from Familiars in that they can fight and attack and such while Familiars are more for scouting and for channeling magic through them. Here's my suggestion for Familiars in BG3. In tabletop, the wizard can channel magic through the familiar if it has a range of touch. SOOOooooo, there aren't that many spells like that in BG3 that would really benefit the spellcaster. SOOOOooooo, I think it'd be really cool if the wizard could channel ALL spells that make sense through the Familiar. In other words, move the Familiar into range of Minthara, then Gale casts Magic Missile with Level 2 Spell Slot through the Familiar. Bam! Gale's way at the back, but the Familiar got up close and hurled Magic Missile. (Keeping in mind the Familiar must still be within 100 feet of the Mage for the Mage to channel through the familiar.)

Now THAT would be way cooler than letting them attack like regular animals, AND it would differentiate between them more effectively. Familiars would then be channels of magic power for Mages, and animals would be like companions and actual animals that fight by your side. Familiars would be good for getting in close so the wizard doesn't have to endanger themselves, while animals would be just like members of the party.

A Limit would have to be put on Familiars as channels, however, or they'd become OP. Maybe they can channel Level 2 or lower spells only. They couldn't cast Level 3 and higher, because then they'd be hurling fireballs and lightning bolts and that'd be too OP.

Though, I must say, that could be fun though. smile Rendzer the Raven goes flying up to a higher level and Lynari, my Drow Mage, hurls fireballs down from Rendzer into a huge bunch of drow. Faboom! Bye bye drow.

Dang! Shouldn't give Larian such ideas. Now they'll implement it, and that's probably WAY too OP. WAY too OP. Right? RIIIiiiiiight?

Joined: Dec 2020
X
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
X
Joined: Dec 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Finally, Animal Companions should differ from Familiars in that they can fight and attack and such while Familiars are more for scouting and for channeling magic through them. Here's my suggestion for Familiars in BG3. In tabletop, the wizard can channel magic through the familiar if it has a range of touch. SOOOooooo, there aren't that many spells like that in BG3 that would really benefit the spellcaster. SOOOOooooo, I think it'd be really cool if the wizard could channel ALL spells that make sense through the Familiar. In other words, move the Familiar into range of Minthara, then Gale casts Magic Missile with Level 2 Spell Slot through the Familiar. Bam! Gale's way at the back, but the Familiar got up close and hurled Magic Missile. (Keeping in mind the Familiar must still be within 100 feet of the Mage for the Mage to channel through the familiar.)

I agree with most of these points. It's kinda funny, because in a way, Familiars are already partial channels. If you double click on a scroll from your party panel while a familiar is selected, the Familiar will cast the spell. (I'm still trying to find a scroll of Disguise Self, see what happens in this case.) A few days ago, QA Oly said this was fixed in his build, but it didn't make it into todays hotfix.

Joined: Oct 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by GM4Him
So, I am suggesting to Larian that they do not make it so that Familiars and Animal Companions unsummon. They should not. You should be able to summon them on Day 1 when you crash on the beach, and if you are smart about them and keep them alive, you should be able to keep them with you the entire adventure without ever having to summon them again. Thus, on Day 2, you can have your Familiar in the party without using a spell slot to summon them
+1

Joined: Nov 2020
E
addict
Offline
addict
E
Joined: Nov 2020
Agree with everything. It particularly bothered me that rangers summon an animal from a selection at will, it just seems so unimmersive and counter to the very being of a ranger. I love the idea of a strong bond between a ranger and a single animal companion; a commitment not a gamey mechanism for summoning different animals.

Joined: Oct 2020
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
Agreed!

Joined: Oct 2020
L
addict
Offline
addict
L
Joined: Oct 2020
Agree with the points you've made. I wouldn't be mad if familiars could only deliver touch spells – there are still a lot more touch spells to be added to the game. And with Magic Initiate, anyone can pick up a familiar. They're great for delivering cleric spells like Restoration, Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds.

Joined: Feb 2021
GM4Him Offline OP
veteran
OP Offline
veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
Originally Posted by LukasPrism
Agree with the points you've made. I wouldn't be mad if familiars could only deliver touch spells – there are still a lot more touch spells to be added to the game. And with Magic Initiate, anyone can pick up a familiar. They're great for delivering cleric spells like Restoration, Cure Wounds and Inflict Wounds.

True, but most people may not understand the point of a familiar or why they can't use many spells with them. I personally wouldn't mind just touch spells, but it might confuse a lot of people. That's why I was thinking that they might value familiars more if they could channel a few more spells.

I still can't wait and am hoping for Dragon's Breath. Ah. My favorite Familiar spell. I would have Gale cast it on his cat familiar and have a fire breathing feline every round while Gale also uses magic.

Or I'd have my Drow Mage cast Shocking Grasp via her Raven Render. Fly down, Shocking Grasp, fly away. No AOE. Now THAT'S what familiars we're made for.

Joined: Nov 2020
O
OcO Offline
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
O
Joined: Nov 2020
I would also like to see touch range spells able to be cast through a familiar as it is suppose to be. No need for extra abilities beyond that imo. Being able to stay safely away from the enemy and cast close range spells through their familiar is enough.

Joined: Feb 2022
Y
stranger
Offline
stranger
Y
Joined: Feb 2022
I would appreciate not having to resummon the animals every day if they don't die.

Joined: Nov 2020
O
OcO Offline
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
O
Joined: Nov 2020
Ok I must admit I wasn't really familiar with the topic(tee hee tee hee, groan groan) so I did some looking. Older DnD had this spell way different than the 5e version quoted above. The 2e version was an actual creature that bonded with the caster and you lost half your HP when it died. BG3 is kinda a mix of both versions, and both OP and UP in different ways as a result. Like most discussions involving something homebrewed by Larian, I wish they just followed the official ruleset.

No familiars should not be lost on a long rest. They are suppose to last till they die or are dismissed. I should be allowed to keep Shovel the entire game if I wanted to and could keep it alive. This really should be changed in BG3. Smart players able to keep their familiars alive should be rewarded with not having to waste a spell slot every day recasting.

The pocket dimension dismissal and re-summoning mechanic should be added. Not only does this have multiple ways it can and is suppose to be able to be used by the player(instant "ally" beside a backline caster or squishy for your Rouge to be able Sneak Attack against them or maybe re-summon on the other side of a wall or locked door to "see" what is there first(LoS is NOT required for the rules of summoning only "free space" in cast range)? Yes Please!) but could maybe even be an easy fix for the lose on long rest. Summoning a familiar would grant 2 new actions lets call them Pocket and Release. Using Pocket removes the familiar and Release brings it back out into play only 1 can be active at a time based on the familiars state. A long rest could auto use Pocket and afterward the player could use the Release action whenever they wanted to bring it back no spell slot used.

Casting through familiars needs to be implemented.

Wizard familiars should lose the ability to attack. This is suppose to be a feature for Pact of the Chain Warlock special familiars.

The Help action needs to be updated to include the rest of it's functionality and familiars should be able to use it. They are in fact suppose to be able to use all actions except attack. Can a familiar use the BG3 help action? I'm not sure I ever noticed or tried. Here are the rules for Help in combat...

"You can lend your aid to another creature in the completion of a task. When you take the Help action, the creature you aid gains advantage on the next ability check it makes to perform the task you are helping with, provided that it makes the check before the start of your next turn. Alternatively, you can aid a friendly creature in attacking a creature within 5 feet of you. You feint, distract the target, or in some other way team up to make your ally’s attack more effective. If your ally attacks the target before your next turn, the first attack roll is made with advantage."

Familiars are suppose to be able to grant advantage to a selected ally against a selected creature within 5 feet of the familiar on the ally's first attack action or AoO(whichever is first). This couples particularly well with the above dismissal/re-summon mechanic we're missing.

Last edited by OcO; 05/03/22 10:45 AM.
V
Van'tal
Unregistered
Van'tal
Unregistered
V
One imp to rule them all!


Seriously this is fine. In fact there should be an achievement: "Roll the world with an Imp".

I played with this in my first play-through. Its a slower more patient approach, but is challenging in its own way; worth perhaps a single play-through.

Wyll has inflict wounds now, which scales with his spell slots. Put dragons breath in the game, multi class 3 levels and now you have an element breathing imp for 1 minute.

Even better, with an eldritch invocation we should be able to speak through him. If they disable the mechanic that summons the whole party in a Boss fight, the imp can solo the encounter.

"Where the Hells are you?!!!".

"I am at the Elfsong Inn Boss, first round's on me."


Now I am currently doing a run that does not depend on Darkness / Devil's sight or the Imp...this is called replay-ability.

Maybe I will do a half-elf Barrel-rider build, and blow up the world!

Last edited by Van'tal; 08/03/22 01:37 PM.
Joined: May 2019
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: May 2019
+1 OP. Excellent post on an important aspect of the game thus far insufficiently discussed.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Sweden
Dez Offline
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Sweden
+1

I was surprised that Larian did not choose to do the Pathfinder style and have rangers choose their animal companion and just have it around permanently until they die, since that is kinda how it works in TT D&D. Being able to unsummon and resummon the animal companion in different shapes at will does not feel very ranger-y at all.

... ... And some balancing patches for the pets wouldn't hurt, I am still extremely curious as to why the raven has more HP than the wolf and/or the boar... I mean, I get that they are trying to balance things out as they are not really equal in RAW D&D either, but... I mean... A raven with more flat HP than a wolf or boar? I feel like a higher AC with lower HP would be more appropriate as it should be harder to hit, but weaker...

... And, finally, some more options wouldn't hurt either... Still mad about there being no feline creature available (lynx would be lovely, but I'd settle for a panther). :<


Hoot hoot, stranger! Fairly new to CRPGs, but I tried my best to provide some feedback regardless! <3 Read it here: My Open Letter to Larian
Joined: Nov 2021
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Nov 2021
+1

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Larian: "We started with what was basically a perfect implementation of D&D 5th edition but it turned out to not work very well in videogames so we improved from there".

Also, Larian: spent the year-and-counting of EA so far reverting most of the "improvements" they made over the 5th edition and struggling to go back to something closer to the original thing. And every time they did pretty much everyone was happier for it.


You have to admit it's ironic when you look at it this way. And that's assuming the original claim was the truth, which is something I'm growing more and more skeptic about over time.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Dec 2020
Z
stranger
Offline
stranger
Z
Joined: Dec 2020
I feel like Larian has this really, really weird phobia of summoning / pet effects. Summons and animal companions are generally a fairly weak option in 5e to begin with, yet they've completely gutted them by limiting you to only one at once - something that completely guts the Ranger and Druid in particular, whose classes are very much designed around being able to summon multiple things at once. Concentration already exists to limit powerful spells, after all.

It's comparable to someone saying "oh, the fighter getting multiple attacks a round feels unbalanced at a gut level, better limit him to one."

Joined: Oct 2020
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by ZetaZeta
I feel like Larian has this really, really weird phobia of summoning / pet effects. Summons and animal companions are generally a fairly weak option in 5e to begin with, yet they've completely gutted them by limiting you to only one at once - something that completely guts the Ranger and Druid in particular, whose classes are very much designed around being able to summon multiple things at once. Concentration already exists to limit powerful spells, after all.

It's comparable to someone saying "oh, the fighter getting multiple attacks a round feels unbalanced at a gut level, better limit him to one."

You're absolutely right, the sum limit is idiotic given the greater advantage in computing power of video game vs. tabletop. I first thought it was one of those EA things, but just like wizz being able to do any spell I came to fear this is simply another Larian dumbification for the disney crowd.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5