Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Patch 8 introduced the first time I've ever been tempted to use the tadpole.

This is an interesting thread. TL:DR; This change is positive, in my opinion.

First I would note that although WotC have de-emphasised alignment ( so "good" vs "evil" should be less of a focus ), Larian did initially ask us to try out the "evil" path. Since the major discriminating decisions we can make comprise those accepting or rejecting the "help" of the Illithid tadpole, it is reasonable to link those to good and evil, at least in a general sense.

In the situation we are roleplaying, however, I would not consider it immediately obvious that employing the tadpole while on the Nautiloid has any particular implications. Until you understand something, it is difficult to characterize it, so using the tadpole to interface with local Nautiloid systems, would not necessarily, and obvioulsly, be "evil".

While all characters would, in principle, be likely to recoil from any path that seems to interact with the "thing" placed in their skull ( whether or not characters are familiar with Illithids and their tadpoles ), does that override all other considerations of "good" and "evil"?

In particular, with Shadowheart in the Nautiloid, you are faced with the choice of releasing a fellow-victim, or probably consigning her to death. Ignoring all foreshadowed knowledge you now have about how the game plays ( which may not actually be true of the released game anyway ), I would argue that releasing SH, regardless of the cost to yourself, is unambiguously a "good" act.

In my mind, a paragon of "good" would not hesitate in this decision, and would selflessly choose to release SH. A "neutral" or "evil" character would balance the extra ally against the risk they perceive to themselves. It is a pure role-play decision, but one that greatly favours a player releasing SH, and thereby introducing the player to what may be the game's most important story mechanic, without any real in-game consequences.

As far as EA goes ( which may not remain true in the released game ), the continued use of the tadpole, and the consequences during long rests, advance a player's understanding of both story elements and personal risk. There is frequent, and ample, opportunity over time to understand that you are trading advantage ( power ) for disadvantage ( subservience ), and when approaching a point of no-return, you are left in no doubt, as there is a dialog that tells you that using the tadpole again will change you.

In EA this seems to do nothing other than change the "[ILLITHID]{WISDOM]" tag on auto-succeed dialog options to a "[TRUE SOUL]" tag, but I haven't played through as a True Soul often enough ( or recently enough ) to know if I have missed changed behaviour. But, I would be surprised ( and very disappointed ) if the released game did not play very differently depending upon this decision.

When I first played the game... And I mean several playthroughs, I was wondering, "Where's my dream person?". Why? I wasn't EVER going to use mind flayer powers. Who would? You gotta know it's bad for you.

Then I decided to just see what would happen if I was a total idiot, and I used them like crazy. Suddenly, there she was. Ah! Now I get it.

Larian needs to tempt players more or no one is going to ever fall into temptation and trigger the dreams. Also, again, if you make Shadowheart so easy to rescue, who WON'T do it? Very few will just ignore her and head to the end. Even in my first playthrough, when you couldn't save her, I ran all over the shop trying to figure out how to.

But, if I'd been presented with the tadpole powers on my first playthrough - use the Dark Side or leave her - I might have just left her. But then... The good side of me might have been like, "It's just one time. What if she dies because you leave her? Maybe you should do it?"

We need MORE of that if anyone is ever really going to be tempted to use the illithid powers. I think it's totally appropriate and makes a lot of sense from a game perspective. It also CAN be explained away in various ways as to why she's in a special pod that can only be operated by illithid powers.

Oh I agree on the temptation part.
That was my point. When you first encounter the console, it makes more sense to me for the tadpole to offer you a quick and easy solution to freeing Shadowheart, rather than this stupid need for a key to open a chest to get a part of the console to THEN use a power that isn't even obviously labelled until too late.

Give me temptation and easiness/morally tough choices, but don't hide those behind stupid fetch hoops.

Build the tension, time is apparently of the essence, but meh, not really right... Geez maybe just change Laezel's comments about "don't touch anything" to more of an explicit warning about how even trying to use the equipment might accelerate ceramorphosis due to allowing the tadpole more access to our minds. Or something to that effect. After all, Gith have knowledge in this regard.

But I always prefer the concept of choice.

- If searching and maybe even fighting to find a key/part allows me a "safer" path to freeing SH, maybe I do that, but then maybe the cost is Laezel's approval of me plummets due to the time it takes and I am on a bad footing with her later on.
- Using the tadpole without the time wasting, she might dissaprove only a little and you get SH on your side, but Strike 1 in terms of Tadpole usage!!

In any case, even if Larian don't want to bother with any of that and it stays as is, I would like more obvious mention that operating the console means accessing a power I "shouldn't have", BEFORE I press the button.

Disagree ...
Controling Mind Flayer technology via Psyonics makes perfect narrative sense ...

If you dont want to use your tadpole, you dont have to ... but you dont get Shadowheart in final tutorial fight.
This new era of demanding all rewards, while refusing to do what it takes discuist me. :-/

That said I don't want yet using the tadapole is automatically evil or "giving into the dark side" A game that comes on top of my head that also does this is "Neverwinter Night 2 Mask of the Betrayer" You get saddled wih a soul eating curse and everyone you first meet tells you tsi an evil curse....your first instinct as a goody two shoe or not a psychopath is "Oh ill just NOT use the power" however its not possible as not using the power at all keeps giving you debuffs that makes progressing through the game impossible. The best you can do is decide whats gets its soul eaten or not and through the story progression you develop new powers that reflect your decisions. Good natured things that even some older beings say " No other curse bearers were able to do this before."

Disagree ...
Controling Mind Flayer technology via Psyonics makes perfect narrative sense ...

If you dont want to use your tadpole, you dont have to ... but you dont get Shadowheart in final tutorial fight.
This new era of demanding all rewards, while refusing to do what it takes discuist me. :-/

Then why doesn't the ceremorphosis pod require that you use the tadpole in order to use it? Or even better, why doesn't the transponder (the control panel of the ship) require that you use the tadpole? Seems like those things are more important to guard than some random prisoner. Forcing the player to use the tadpole to free Shadowheart isn't genius, it's a cheap solution to something that is not a problem at all. There are more organic ways of promoting the tadpoles rather than locking out a companion in the beginning.

Shadowheart is a special prisoner. She is carrying the Gith weapon. So, special security is called for.

This is just 1 potential explanation.

And I disagree. It solves the problem of, "No one is NOT freeing Shadowheart. We've made it too easy.". It also solves the problem of "No one is tempted ever by the tadpole. If we want people to seriously be tempted, we may need to do things to seriously tempt players."

I'm not against temptations for using the tadpole, I just don't get, why you have to use it for this one single piece of technology in the mindflayers ship, while you can use much more important tech ( the console, where you Change that poor Woman, the helm...) without it. To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense and seems totally random.

I can't wait to see what far more dire consequences are waiting for us if we refuse to use tadpole. Betrayal, death of comrades, missing out on special loot. Come on Larian, if you're going to tempt us, make it worth while.

Yes! That's what I'm talking about. REALLY tempt us. Make it hard on us to resist.

These things are eating our brains and morphing us into monsters. I want to really stress over using it. Life or death situation. Not check the gith girl's mind journal to see how she feels about me.

Shadowheart is a special prisoner. She is carrying the Gith weapon. So, special security is called for.

This is just 1 potential explanation.

And I disagree. It solves the problem of, "No one is NOT freeing Shadowheart. We've made it too easy.". It also solves the problem of "No one is tempted ever by the tadpole. If we want people to seriously be tempted, we may need to do things to seriously tempt players."