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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: May 2022
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Clearly they prefer their Vision Cones mini-game instead of the 5e system. Rules of 5e just state: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly." Creature seeing you clearly or not is usually determined by DM and requires his own judgement. The DM's role is reinforced by: "The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding." Thus, Vision Cones are not infringement upon 5e rules, they are an attempt to simulate DMs ruling. We might agree, that Larian's vision cones are too generous, but shouting "Follow 5e" is not a valid feedback or concern in this case.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Feb 2021
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Clearly they prefer their Vision Cones mini-game instead of the 5e system. Rules of 5e just state: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly." Creature seeing you clearly or not is usually determined by DM and requires his own judgement. The DM's role is reinforced by: "The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding." Thus, Vision Cones are not infringement upon 5e rules, they are an attempt to simulate DMs ruling. We might agree, that Larian's vision cones are too generous, but shouting "Follow 5e" is not a valid feedback or concern in this case. I have no problem with Vision Cones. I have a problem with no Hearing Rings. If I step into a cone and get spotted, that makes sense. What doesn't make sense is NO roll at all to sneak right up behind an enemy and Sneak Attack them with my entire party including Lae'zel who should get Disadvantage on Stealth because of armor and she sucks at Stealth to begin with. Hearing Rings would create a need for Stealth rolls and set Astarion with Stealth apart from Lae'zel who should be like a stampeding rhino.
Last edited by GM4Him; 16/07/22 12:38 PM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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Clearly they prefer their Vision Cones mini-game instead of the 5e system. Rules of 5e just state: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly." Creature seeing you clearly or not is usually determined by DM and requires his own judgement. The DM's role is reinforced by: "The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding." Thus, Vision Cones are not infringement upon 5e rules, they are an attempt to simulate DMs ruling. We might agree, that Larian's vision cones are too generous, but shouting "Follow 5e" is not a valid feedback or concern in this case. The spirit of the D&D system is that the Stealth skill is actually used to determine the success of sneaking, and not some 3rd party system stacked on top that completely overrides it. So let's not start rules lawyering here.  And reading that first sentence literally and allowing players to hide in melee range during turn based combat is clearly asinine DM'ing.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2020
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Clearly they prefer their Vision Cones mini-game instead of the 5e system. Rules of 5e just state: "You can't hide from a creature that can see you clearly." Creature seeing you clearly or not is usually determined by DM and requires his own judgement. The DM's role is reinforced by: "The DM decides when circumstances are appropriate for hiding." Thus, Vision Cones are not infringement upon 5e rules, they are an attempt to simulate DMs ruling. We might agree, that Larian's vision cones are too generous, but shouting "Follow 5e" is not a valid feedback or concern in this case. The spirit of the D&D system is that the Stealth skill is actually used to determine the success of sneaking, and not some 3rd party system stacked on top that completely overrides it. So let's not start rules lawyering here. And reading that first sentence literally and allowing players to hide in melee range during turn based combat is clearly asinine DM'ing. Interesting take, since the first sentence literally says you can't do that, if they can see you. If they can't see you, range doesn't matter. In fact, I'd argue that, if they can't see you, then sneak wouldn't even be necessary for a sneak attack, for example, since being undetected, they can't see you, would give you advantage.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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Technically, the vision cones are absolutely fine. But the vision cone system they are using is completely overriding the base system, that Stealth requires not only staying out of sight, but also keeping quiet.
The current system is so completely broken, making Stealth rolls not needed at all. Just Stealth and avoid cones, no matter how awful your Stealth skill is, and you can sneak as well as the player who has Proficiency and placed all skill points into Stealth. Makes no sense.
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