Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Forced Non-Stealth Sections And Questionable Detections Are Terrible

EDIT: Apparently the non-stealth sections are a known bug by the dev team. The questionable detection also seems to be an unintended bug.

The forced non-stealth sections in which you are not allowed to sneak despite not being in any cone of vision really ruin the logic, freedom and joy of interaction with the world.

It started happening since Patch 8 and I'm not sure whether this is a bug due to how illogically inconsistent it is or an intended nerf to stealth in order to actively restrict the player from sneaking, but no matter the reasoning it feels absolutely terrible.

For example a few notable locations;

• On the Nautiloid stealth breaks in front of the pod where the woman can be turned into a mindflayer
• In front of the grove gates sneaking is forbidden so the player cannot avoid the battle.
• In the camp sneaking is forbidden.
• In Waukeen's Rest sneaking is forbidden behind the Flaming Fist woman praying for her fallen comrade.
• In Hag's Lair sneaking is forbidden after passing the living door so now the player cannot sneak by the possessed masked people in order to save them later during the fight with the Hag.
• Plenty of other locations and combat situations as well where I try to stealth to gain an advantage only to automatically un-stealth and lose a bonus action because of some inconsistently illogical stealth blocker

I am nowhere near cones of vision and yet I am forbidden from sneaking.



As for questionable detections, I keep coming across plenty of situations where interacting or stealing items belonging to other NPCs automatically triggers them to investigate and approach you, despite the item interacted or stolen not being in their cone of vision.

Prior to Patch 8 NPCs would only investigate theft if they physically look and notice an item gone from its location. But now they have a magical sixth sense that instantly alerts them of a theft and points them straight at you, even if their backs are turned.

A few notable examples:

• Abdirak the follower of Loviatar in Ruined Temple Of Selune automatically investigates a theft if you touch his book (which has to be read in order to open up dialogue about more advanced techniques)
• Nettie in Druid's Grove not only immediately senses a theft behind her back, but also instantly accuses you about theft.
• Rugan instantly knows if you interact with the Zhentarim chest even if you are not physically seen doing it.

There's so many other instances where I came across this issue, which makes me wonder what is going on with stealth since Patch 8? It's so inconsistently terrible.

Here I am clearly not visible by anyone and fully in stealth, yet as soon as I click on anything in the room Nettie automatically locks onto me.

Iteresting and worrisome.

Kagha comes to investigate when lockpicking her chest even though it's not only inside a secondary room but behind a stone wall. Doesn't ever catch me but she walks right up to my character usually after reading her letters.

Probably a bug. Sounds like it breaks a lot of the quests. Have others experienced this? I not noticed it myself, however I do not use sneak in my latest play through. Larian should hot fix it

Yes, I reported the problem with sneaking around the camp about two weeks ago. I don't know what the change is about. Maybe they want to avoid exploits (stealing gold from the skeleton)?

https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=825668#Post825668

I agree. The fact that you can no longer sneak (and steal) in certain areas is disconcerting, especially if this means that alternative approaches to solving a problem are frustrated.

I noticed the issue with sneaking in the hag’s lair and reported it to Larian support who confirmed it was a known bug, so certainly not all the changes are intended (if any are). I’ve not noticed other locations where there’s no vision cone but a hiding roll, but possibly I’ve just not tried hiding in those other exact places.

It’s interesting that people had problems stealing from Abdirak, Nettie and Kagha. I’ve definitely done all these things in patch 8 and they haven’t called me on it. But I have noticed getting challenged more so something has clearly changed. I wondered if committing a crime when other party members are within visible range of an NPC might be the trigger, as it’s often someone in my party other than the person I’ve had sneaking who is accosted. I’ve not tested this thoroughly though.

Thank you for letting me know that these non-stealth sections are indeed bugs, quite helpful to know ^^

As for the questionable detection, here is an example with Nettie which I mentioned:

My party members are hidden far away at the entrance of the inner grove and out of sight. As for Nettie and her bird, neither are looking towards the chest yet as soon as I click on it she immediately locks onto me. So it is definitely yet another bug for stealth in Patch 8.



The only way for me to interact with or steal anything in the room is to make her go into the next room through the conversation, but when she is in the room it is just impossible.

Interesting. I managed to steal the sickle from her table while she was there and there was no reaction, but I’ve not tried opening the chest. Do you automatically come out of stealth as soon as you open it, or does Nettie turn towards the chest and you then get and fail a stealth roll?

+1
If Larian is really going all-in on a player-defined permutation-based experience, you should be able to play any playthrough using any mechanic to its completion, without the game forcing you to other mechanics because reasons.

Narrative gate off exists for a reason and is fine if it makes sanse. They can't just make everything they need to set limits.
Example like the druid grove fight is gated that way like it should be.


But on the other side we have lots of bugs so it's hard to know what is a bug and what not.

i can only confirm the stealing problems mentioned by op. i tested those in this pach and they are indeed weird. Like they are with every patch clearly they are still making the system, it's different with ever patch more or less.

Yup, she instantly turns towards me, starts walking without even investigating anything, breaks my stealth and then accuses me. Which naturally she shouldn't be doing. And this happens with any item in her room, not just the chest specifically.

Same with Rugan for example and his Zhentarim chest. Doesn't matter whether he sees you or not, he instantly accuses you of messing with it.

You are right that narrative gate off exists for a reason and should be there if it makes sense. My point is more that Larian has made a specific and concerted effort to create what one might call a "player-defined" and "permutation-based" experience. Did you play DOS2? In DOS2, you can skip to the end of Acts, load up story moments with barrels while in stealth, and completely fuck with the order of the game (which I think contributes to the Act-based direction Larian has doubled down on), and Larian actively encourages you to find different ways in and out of situations (that's why the romances get boiled down to... who do you want to share the bed with). In that specific spirit or ideology of game design, narrative gate off is actually an obstacle to Larian's vision, not an asset. Now, if they want to temper the extreme direction the "player-defined" experience has gone (not necessarily against that either), maybe narrative gates aren't the worst thing. But in a game where the total party's arc and reputation follows the player character, where companion sexuality follows the player character, where the events in the game follow different permutations based on the decisions of the player character, and when you are given freedom in going about certain tasks as the player character (which defines how the game presents itself to the player character), where you can move yourself anywhere in the Act through a series of random bullshit because you are the player character and the game accounts for it, maybe the natural conclusion of the game philosophy is to let anyone use any game mechanic to its full completion. It's like FLUDD in Mario Sunshine, or the Gliding Mechanic in Breath of the Wild. Maybe just give people the ability to push a mechanic to absolute "freedom" and see what they do with it.

Edit: I also think there is a remarkable challenge we can underestimate a lot in this forum in that gameplay mechanics, world mechanics, and narrative mechanics all have to align and cooperate with each other for a coherent experience. What is good for gameplay might be bad for narrative, and what is good for the world, might be bad for gameplay, and so on. For example, we used to discuss chopping up the map to make it more convincing as a "larger" world, but it would also take away from the seamless experience of gameplay which is so necessary for having a smooth time with the game and a consistent multiplayer experience. Narrative gates could preserve parts of the narrative the devs deem "necessary," but it could also prevent people from playing the game the way they wanted to play it, when the game specifically tells them that they should be able to play however they want to play in a "player-defined" experience. Lots of people like very different things in this game, so it leads to wanting to have our gameplay/world/narrative cake and to eat it too.

there are places you get auto kicked from stealth yes... so far all but 2 has a work around... at least the ones i've encountered do