Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Sorcerer dialogue... a little less arrogant?

The basic statement here is:

"I would very much like to give responses or make statements that are related to or coming from the nature of my personal class, or the cultural background of my people, that do not come positively oozing with Someone Else's pre-designed personality."

This is NOT a hard request to fulfil; it's actually very straight forward and generally speaking it Should be the default way that such dialogues are designed. Larian took extra efforts to Not design them this way, and that detracts from the experience unless you just so happen to be playing a character that does accurately match the personality that Larian are mapping onto the class you picked for you.

I haven’t played the Sorceror class and I’m digressing slightly but would it not have been better if Larian had just followed the previous games’ dialogue options which were loosely tantamount to alignment or positive/negative/arrogant/ambivalent etc etc. That seems to me a much more appropriate way for a player to imbue their character with the desired personality. Each class could then have class specific dialogue options in an appropriate situation. I don’t like the idea of my having my PC’ personally set out for me by Larian with limited dialogue options.

I'd better play something with personality than nothing without any personality. If I want to give my sorcerer an extra edge I can choose a default dialogue option which is usually allignment-based. If anyone who states that sorcerer can have some generic dialogue that can keep some personality and be well-written - feel free to share your suggestions. Otherwise, it is just guesswork about if something is easy or not.

As per my suggestions above, this worked fine in the previous games if my memory serves. Larian have hamstrung themselves by insisting on making every dialogue cinematic, therefore inherently reducing the amount of options for dialogue available because of the resources required.

It also makes no sense that some classes would have specific dialogue options that suggest a personality not available to other classes, if this is the case. Am I locked out of making an arrogant, selfish Cleric? I don’t know because I haven’t played the game since 2020.

Dialogue options should cover the most basic personality traits for each class.I feel the previous games covered this fairly well given the time in which those games were made.

Actually, it's not guess-work (this to neprostoman); the practice of writing with a neutral character tone when scripting dialogue options relative to specific details or character-gated information in choice-driven RPGs is a common and well known practice which most RPGs that are focused on a custom player character follow as standard practice. Larian is the outlier in this regard. It is not difficult - at all - to write lines that convey the intended information in ways that are neutral enough that they can be interpreted to suit the tone and style of any personality, and this practice is generally followed specifically and precisely for the reason that Larian's decisions here are causing objection over.

There are places in these types of games where our conversation options can be used to express the individual personality of our characters - but special information is not one of those places; special information, such as is gated by class, should be comfortably accessible to any player in a position to share that information, and that means that it should not make presumptions about the nature or character of the speaker beyond their willingness to share the information when the option is selected. It should not map a strong personality onto the line - that is better saved for places where the expressing of our character's personality and feelings on a matter is the core point of the choice.

Larian have instead decided that being a halfling is a Personality Trait; that being a Sorcerer is a Personality Trait... and it's just uncomfortable and unsatisfying if your halfling, or your sorcerer, doesn't match with the personality that Larian have decided that being those things somehow intrinsically means - and in all but that single specific case, it won't.

They could definitely tone down the pigeon-holing of it all. There's too much of a cross-over between class as a function and class as a personality stereotype. I don't mind the snarky sorcerer dialogue at all, but it becomes a problem when snark is tied only to sorcerer dialogue, because then no other character can respond snarkily.

Then, the solution would be to just take the tags off all these dialogue options, but there are still the class functions tied to them (sorcerers say something snarky *while* talking about/casting spells and magic, barbarians say something dumb/angry *while* being physically violent, etc) so you couldn't really play as an angry sorcerer that way without also being physically violent + smashing things with your fists etc, while also never talking about actual magic.

For all dialogue options that have no actual class function, they should definitely remove the class tag. I'm not sure how they could solve the actual dialogue + action combo part though.

Maybe if they have dialogue on the left half of the screen, a split down the middle, and actions on the right? Kind of like the crafting combination screen where a(words) + b(action) = c(dialogue choice/skill check). I can't format it here how I envision it in the game, so a little imagination will be required, but here is my idea..

Instead of it being like this:

Larian Version

"Oh no, the door is locked tight and we need to get to the other side, they're going to kill that sweet little kitten!"

1. Stand back! *knocks door down* [STR]
2. I'll unlock it. *picks lock* [DEX]
3. [Deception] Please open the door, that kitten is actually possessed by a demon and if you kill it you will unleash it on all of us! [CHA]
4. [BARBARIAN][Intimidation] OPEN THIS DOOR RIGHT NOW OR I'LL MURDER YOUR FAMILY AND MAKE YOU WATCH AS I USE THEIR SPINES TO UNCLOG MY TOILET [CHA]
5. [BARBARIAN] You think this puny little door can keep me out?! ARGHH *rips the door off its hinges and catapults it into the room* [STR]
6. *leave*

maybe it could be more like this?
(dialogue not containing a function must be paired with an action, while dialogue containing a function (like persuasion, intimidation, deception etc) goes straight to the end result):

My Version

"Oh no, the door is locked tight and we need to get to the other side, they're going to kill that sweet little kitten!"

1a. Everyone give me some space, I'm saving that kitten if it's the last thing I do
2a. I've beaten tougher locks than this in my sleep
3a. *scoffs* I know at least three spells that would obliterate this door
4a. Screw the kitten, gimme that loot!
5a. If we must...
6a. You think this puny little door can keep me out?! ARGHH
7a. *laughs* A cat? Oh, please, as if
8a. We don't have time for this
9a. Let's try and find another way inside
10. [Deception] Please open the door, that kitten is actually possessed by a demon and if you kill it you will unleash it on all of us! [CHA DC15]
11. [Intimidation] OPEN THIS DOOR RIGHT NOW OR I'LL MURDER YOUR FAMILY AND MAKE YOU WATCH AS I USE THEIR SPINES TO UNCLOG MY TOILET [CHA DC15]

+

1b. *kick the door until it buckles* [STR DC10]
2b. *pull out your thief's kit and start picking* [DEX DC10]
3b. *recite the words/movements for an unlocking spell and enter unnoticed* [INT DC15]
4b. *ball a destructive spell in your fist and lob it at the door* [INT DC10]
5b. *rip the door off its hinges and catapult it into the room, not caring who it hits* [STR DC15]
6b. *look for a weak spot in the wood to take advantage of with your weapon* [WIS DC10]
7. *leave*

The beauty of something like this would be that it doesn't have to illicit unique reactions from each of the companions, they wouldn't have to record voice lines from each of them depending on what you do any more than they already do, a simple 'Nice job' would suffice whether you kick the door in, blast it with a spell, unlock it with magic or tools, etc. Additionally, it could also offer some moments of comedy if, say, a really stupid non-magic user attempts to do something that a sorcerer/wizard would be more suited to, like casting an unlocking spell. The narrator smugly goading them as they try and try to conjure a spell in their hands even though they don't have the faintest clue how to do it, or a sassy 'Really?' from Shadowheart/Gale etc.

Additionally, each component of the dialogue choice could gain or lose approval from each companion, especially since their motives are pretty nuanced in this game. Shadowheart is pretty nihilistic and sadistic on the surface, she rewards wit, but deep down she cares about standing up for people and doesn't care for unnecessary violence. With this system you would be able to create a character with more nuanced motives that would interact with the nuance of the companions better.

Agreed, 100%

Im not sure if this isnt exactly what people are arguing against ...
Both those options sets some characteristic to your Barbarian ...

Lilaque described as it is now, and how it should not be according to them.

A little bit further down they describe how it can be - possibly - made better.

Really?

Well this sentence certainly confused me then:

I don't like to choose some of the Sorcerer dialogue options because I think it's somewhat immature to talk about yourself like the sorcerer does. For example: "I'm better than a wizard. I'm a sorcerer." Or: "I'm not surprised I'm not getting sick because I have dragon blood."

Whether I feel that way or not, it seems tacky to say it out loud.

But the presence of the dialogue options don't bother me. I just don't choose them.

Anyway, what I wanted to mention was that there's a great set of options for the sorcerer when the character first picks up a sussur bloom. There are different choices that can be picked, each revealing a different way the sorcerer might feel about the sudden loss of magic.

Are those actual quotes or just the general tone of the dialogue options?

+1 ... even tho not exactly the point.

Unless i understand it incorectly ...
OP is focused more on Lack of alternatives, that would still be toned for his class specificaly, but wont reflect curently presented characteristic (in this case arogance of Sorcerers) ... than presence of existing options.

"I'm better than a wizard. I'm a sorcerer" is.

When playing warlock it is identical except sorcerer is replaced by warlock.

Can't say for the dragon blood quote

Draconic bloodline when talking to Auntie Ehtel at the Druid Grove :

Ethel : "Auntie Ethel will sort you out. I've lotions and potions galore!"
Tav : "I am magic. If I can't cure myself, nothing you concoct will."

Sorry, I can see how that was confusing - I edited it to show how the first part was dialogue at present, and the second part was my idea. My bad!

Thank you for those replies folks re: Draconic dialogue. Not my idea of good writing per se but as long as there options for other personality traits in the dialogue options then I suppose it’s acceptable.