Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback How to fix the melee warlock problem

Ok, i wanna have a discussion and hear ideas about the melee Warlock, or rather the Wyll problem.

As you know, from the first implementation of 5e, with the PHB, the Warlock was a class that could be specialized in melee combat with pact of the blade.

The problem with that, is that if you pursue that path, you will find yourself doing more damage with Eldritch Blast(a cantrip from range), compared to attacking twice with thirsting blade at 5th level. At later levels the problem becomes even more comical.

All this time, you can only wear light armor, and not use shields.

Wizards decided to tackle this with Xanathar's guide to everything. A book that featured the Eldritch smite invocation, basically using warlock spell slots to smite like the paladin(almost), and the hexblade subclass.

So, in your opinion what do you think, or what do you want to see? How would you prefer Baldur's Gate 3 deal with this problem?

A) The Warlock stays with the PHB features, and cannot do anything more.

B) The Hexblade subclass is added, along with Eldritch Smite Invocation.

C) No sublcass is added, but the Eldritch smite invocation is added, and pact of the blade is buffed to help melee combat.

D) Something else?

Personally i would be ok with options B or C. The best would be B obviously.

Cheers

P.S. From what we know so far, we should only expect PHB features, that is known. I still wanna hear opinions, because the problem of the non-existant pact of the blade STILL remains, PHB only or not.

Would certainly love to see Hexblade ...
But if not, i would preffer not to change Warlock.

I mean yeah they are "not as effective" in meele combat, but that sounds like part of the deal to me ...
Every class have their strong and weak sides ... thats why they matter. :-/

As for Wyll ... i certainly plan to play him as Warlock/Fighter.

I would like the Hexblade subclass, I enjoy that class a lot, but I think A or C is the most likely option. A because it requires the least amount of work, but I think if they actually want to address the problem, then C would be a good way. After all, adding a feat is pretty trivial since it only really tweaks some numbers around. and such. It won't require a lot of in-depth work.

As an aside, I suspect the reason they didn't include pact of the blade in EA is because they had to reckon with the fact you're supposed to be able to turn it into any weapon, so they had to implement a system for that. And knowing Larian, they probably would want to make each weapon look special based on the patron you take.

I'm fine with warlock as it is and yes the idea that every character has to be the same in melee or whatever else, defeats the point of having classes

This is not about classes being the same.

This is about classes being effective at the role they can get.

I think the problem is explained in the first post.

D&D is about options, this isn't dragon age where dual wielding on warriors is considered that it makes them rogues and is frowned upon.

Also, each class is different and approaches melee in a different way. The Warlock just can't do it, so they had to patch it with an invocation (smite) and a subclass(hexblade).

I will accept of course, that especially those that don't play Warlocks in melee(pact of the blade), will not really care. So it's fine to disagree, but this has nothing to do with homogenisation, we dont have that problem.

Of course B)... Wyll is predestined to be a Hexblade!

A hexblade doesn't really approach combat in the exact same way as a fighter, because they aren't the same class and don't have the same abilities, or hit points. They can be turned into fantastic mobile flankers. But unless they give us hexblade or allow us to multiclass, we're better off building our warlocks into blaster casters or support casters, because they simply won't be effective as a melee fighter after level 5.

I'd love to see hexblade put into BG3, but then I'd also love to see the other XGE subclasses put in too. But if that doesn't happen I don't want warlock to get the ranger treatment, I don't like larian's homebrew subclasses very much. This issue with vanilla warlock being a relatively subpar melee fighter with pact of the blade was something that was known back in 2015 when the PHB first came out, and this is why I was a little concerned when larian said they were only going to do the PHB content.

The problem isn't making classes the same it's that with only the PHB options Pact of Blade is massively worse than the other options. I say that having DM'ed a party with one and another Pact of Tome Warlock. Hexblade fixed that by giving it a build where it's great. It's also the fix that makes the martial Bard sub class(es) not terrible. I ended up giving the Pact of Blade Warlock in my game the Hex Warrior feature (had an in story reason). Frankly PHB only 5E is so much worse than with XGtE and TGtE, I really hope PHB is not the only content we get.

Hexblade has functionally been the table top fix but it seems likely that the Wyll is going to be locked into Pact of Blade and his whole story is based on being a Fiend patron Warlock. So even including Hexblade probably means most players get to experience the full joy of Pact of Blade.

That's true, when i was dming a campaign, one the players wanted to play a melee fiend lock. When they got to level 7, and as monsters became stronger and stronger and gained more hp, he just couldn't keep up. He was a new player so when i first proposed the Hexblade for a melee lock he was hesitant, so inevitably he encountered issues later on, although i tried to help him with some items. So we had a talk inevitably.

He was adamant however, that he wanted a Fiend patron for flavor and backround, so what we ended up doing, is allow him to retrain with hexblade and eldritch smite, but reflavored the hexblade to something akin to a Sword of Zariel subclass. Basically a hexblade, but the patron was Zariel, an Archdevil, that gave him one of her weapons, and the abilities a bit reflavored but with the same mechanics.

If I got to choose, then of course it would be option B. The more D&D 5e content that makes it into the game, the better. And while we are looking at Xanathar's Guide to Everything: I wouldn't mind if the sorcerous origin Divine Soul would be added as well.

After all the planned classes are added and completed, of course - we are still missing Monk and Paladin and a lot of other stuff is missing too. Reaction spells, like Shield, class features like the Eldritch Knight's weapon bond, the Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand ledgerdemain is still incomplete as well... Lots of work still to do.

I want them to add pact of the blade, but include hex warrior as a pact of the blade feature.

So pact of the blade gives you the weapon proficiency, medium armor and the possibility to use a shield, as well as the cha based attacks. Hexblade would not make story sense for Wyll. Mizora clearly is not a sentient weapon or a being from the shadowfell or even the Raven Queen!

Eldritch Smite would be cool, I certainly would be happy about more XGtE options, but the priority should be the rework of pact of the blade!