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Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? #835130 15/12/22 02:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2020 Minicrom OP stranger
OP Minicrom stranger Joined: Oct 2020	I am wondering if removing them is a good move. I feel it is really good for Lore noobs of DnD like me to understand what are Miindflayersin a very showing way. In addition the story was really dark and the area feels empty without them. At least I would loke to know the reasoning behind this change. It is a really good interaction gone for a reason I trouble understanding.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835132 15/12/22 02:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator
The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK	Yes, I'd be interested in the rationale too. Without them, the encounter with the injured mindflayer seems perfunctory, though possibly that's just in contrast. Was there something completely wrong with the lore of the scene? "You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835133 15/12/22 02:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2020 Niara veteran
Niara veteran Joined: Jun 2020	Suspicion: +80% of paladin playtesters in their closed group ended up with the broken oath state at that point, from dealing with the fishers and having some of them die due to failed checks and no fault of their own, so they doubled down on the flippant system and just removed the 'problem point'.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Niara #835135 15/12/22 02:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2020 Minicrom OP stranger
OP Minicrom stranger Joined: Oct 2020	Make sense. But it's a bit of shame if that's the case because of all of the other possible class that would never get that issue. I understand if that's what happened though. Hope they find a way to bring it back in the future. Last edited by Minicrom; 15/12/22 02:24 PM.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Niara #835136 15/12/22 02:24 PM
Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator
The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK	Originally Posted by Niara Suspicion: +80% of paladin playtesters in their closed group ended up with the broken oath state at that point, from dealing with the fishers and having some of them die due to failed checks and no fault of their own, so they doubled down on the flippant system and just removed the 'problem point'. Ooh, that didn't occur to me but it sounds plausible. If so, then hopefully the writers will be able to resolve the issues and give us the fishers back. Ideally along with a more nuanced representation of what it is to adhere to or break paladins' oaths, though I'm trying to reserve my judgement on how the game handles oaths until I've completed my paladin playthrough. "You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Niara #835141 15/12/22 02:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2020 Scoonster49 journeyman
Scoonster49 journeyman Joined: Oct 2020	How would that make Paladins go into broken Oath state? There is a difference between choosing to kill and trying to go for the moral option but failing the checks

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? The Red Queen #835144 15/12/22 02:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2022 Location: Belgium MelivySilverRoot addict
MelivySilverRoot addict Joined: Aug 2022 Location: Belgium	The fact that they didn't say it was temporary worries me a bit. I do like the encounter. A bit off-topic but reacting to a previous comment in this thread : Originally Posted by The_Red_Queen Ideally along with a more nuanced representation of what it is to adhere to or break paladins' oaths, though I'm trying to reserve my judgement on how the game handles oaths until I've completed my paladin playthrough. Not going to lie, the way it seems to work made me loose a bit of interest in the paladin class. I do try to reserve judgement, like you, I'm not far enough in my playthrough to have an actual feel of it. Thing is, I picked Ancient oath paladin, which is not lawful (PHB : "This oath emphasizes the principles of good above any concerns of law or chaos"). But the way the game seems (so again, I need to go further in my playthrough) to represent it at the moment feels very lawful. And my brain doesn't work that way ðŸ˜… That's also why I'm not a fan of alignements in the first place (especially in a video-game vs real life where it can be discussed). It's very much up for interpretations. We'll see how it actually goes ðŸ™‚. Dreamlover? - Journal - StorytellingðŸ’œ

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Niara #835146 15/12/22 02:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2020 Gray Ghost veteran
Gray Ghost veteran Joined: Aug 2020	Originally Posted by Niara Suspicion: +80% of paladin playtesters in their closed group ended up with the broken oath state at that point, from dealing with the fishers and having some of them die due to failed checks and no fault of their own, so they doubled down on the flippant system and just removed the 'problem point'. That's certainly possible, but I doubt it. I imagine that each broken oath state had to be coded specifically. I doubt that there are universal tags for things like "innocent" or "lie" established. We can kill the Mindflayer, and it's laying helpless. I feel like they would have had to specifically code it, and given that, it seems like it would be easier to just not make it a broken oath trigger as opposed to removing what was a solid scene. My theory is that someone took issue with the fact that the fishermen didn't seem to have anywhere they could reasonably come from, since the place is so far away from the nearest habitation. It's a weak theory, but it's mine.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835150 15/12/22 02:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2021 L Leucrotta addict
Leucrotta addict L Joined: Jan 2021	The other fishermen are still there-the dead ones, they are littered all over the beach where you first land.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835156 15/12/22 03:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2022 Location: Germany Lotus Noctus old hand
Lotus Noctus old hand Joined: Apr 2022 Location: Germany	Yes too bad and again an inspiration goal subquest as well as a level up spot less...

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Niara #835230 15/12/22 06:29 PM
Joined: May 2022 Doomdrake journeyman
Doomdrake journeyman Joined: May 2022	Originally Posted by Niara Suspicion: +80% of paladin playtesters in their closed group ended up with the broken oath state at that point, from dealing with the fishers and having some of them die due to failed checks and no fault of their own, so they doubled down on the flippant system and just removed the 'problem point'. But Oaths only come at lvl 3 so you should not have been high enough level to be able to break your oath at this point in the game. Solasta D&Does what BG3 D&Doesn't.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Doomdrake #835235 15/12/22 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator
The Red Queen Volunteer Moderator Joined: Feb 2022 Location: UK	Originally Posted by Doomdrake But Oaths only come at lvl 3 so you should not have been high enough level to be able to break your oath at this point in the game. In BG3 patch 9, oath of devotion or oath of the ancients are selected at character creation. Not sure if this will be the same in the full release or if it's just because, with only 5 levels in EA, Larian thought delaying oaths until level 3 wouldn't give people long enough with their fully realised paladin, especially if they wanted to try breaking their oaths. "You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835264 15/12/22 09:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2022 Crimsomrider veteran
Crimsomrider veteran Joined: Jun 2022	I liked those fishermen. Was a nice encounter, especially as a Drow telling them I am not looking for slaves ^^ Minthara's Compendium Of Issues

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835272 15/12/22 10:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2020 Lastman addict
Lastman addict Joined: Oct 2020	Instead of improving them and make more content for a good side thing like that they remove it? What is going on. Next they gonna remove the crypt looters or something...We need more stuff like that and better not less... Upside down world for real. Last edited by Lastman; 15/12/22 10:08 PM.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835326 16/12/22 12:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2022 B beargor stranger
beargor stranger B Joined: Jul 2022	Some possible Datamining spoilers but... I remember seeing some datamining stuff that we we're suppose to find Minsc in that area (doubt that it'll still be that way now) but I assume that area will be one of the things that changes on launch

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835375 16/12/22 07:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2020 Location: Liberec RagnarokCzD veteran
RagnarokCzD veteran Joined: Oct 2020 Location: Liberec	Certainly hope so ... Its awfully empty now I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835383 16/12/22 08:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2020 S Saberem apprentice
Saberem apprentice S Joined: Oct 2020	I would like to see the fishermen return too, it was a very interesting encounter.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Minicrom #835384 16/12/22 08:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2019 Ignatius enthusiast
Ignatius enthusiast Joined: Aug 2019	Something about the encounter might be bugged, and bugged in a manner they haven't fixed yet. I can't think of any other reason to remove it.

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? Ignatius #835616 17/12/22 07:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2020 M MarcHicks member
MarcHicks member M Joined: Oct 2020	Originally Posted by Ignatius Something about the encounter might be bugged, and bugged in a manner they haven't fixed yet. I can't think of any other reason to remove it. Trying to think back to my Patch 8 playthrough, and if there was anything that consistently went wrong during that scene.....

Re: Was removing the enthralled fishermen a good idea? MarcHicks #835618 17/12/22 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2022 Crimsomrider veteran
Crimsomrider veteran Joined: Jun 2022	Everything worked fine with that encounter, as I played it in every way imaginable and all outcomes felt finished and satisfactory. So definitely wasn't because of some issues with it as there were no issues. Maybe they just relocated it someplace else in the game. Minthara's Compendium Of Issues

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