Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback [Suggestion] Paladins in Faerun (Baldur's Gate 3)

Whilst its true that Paladins in the core 5e rules of D&D have moved away from Dedication to specific deities, my understanding is that within Forgotten Realms lore, Deities are still a very large part of a Paladin's Oath of Devotion.

As such, I'd like to see a character creation screen for Paladins much more akin to those of Clerics, where you get to select which deity you wish to be devoted to. Below are my broader thoughts on how the Paladin can be improved within Baldur's Gate 3:

-Paladins should have Patron Deities, the same as Clerics, that help to further codify what will & will not break their oaths (Devotion Paladins would probably serve Deities like Tyr, Helm, Ilmater, Bahamut etc, & Ancients Paladins would probably serve Nature Deities like Silvanus, Talos, Eldath etc). Though obviously there might be some oaths that are shared by all Paladins. The beauty is that the UI for Deity Selection already exists for Clerics.
-Better Signposting of what actions can cause a breaking of the Oath for each type of Paladin (for example, killing the Owlbear might be a huge deal for the Ancients Paladin, but less problematic for a Devotion Paladin).
-The correct response, combined with a difficult (15+) speech check, should be enough to avoid becoming an Oath-breaker when talking to the First Oath-breaker. With the chances getting harder with each tenet of the oath broken.
-Lastly, aside from paying gold, you should also require a difficult (15+) speech check if you want to take up your Oath once more, and perhaps at the loss of a whole level as penance.

I love it and completely agree, except for that it should be optional. So people can decide if they want to make a deity dedicated paladin or a non-deity dedicated paladin.

+1

I mentioned this in another thread, but the 5e paladin is essentially 3 separate but thematically similar classes from older editions combined into one: traditional paladin, divine champion, and blackguard. You can use subclass and other character choices to turn your character into any one of them. BG3 doesn't quite have all the choices that would normally let you do that yet.

I'd like the ability to pick a deity if I want to make a traditional paladin, but not be forced to.
I'd also like it if the whole oathbreaker thing was less draconian. Losing your divine powers and being visited by tall dark and evil in the night on a single bad decision is the stuff of rpg horror stories. I know we don't actually have a DM to mitigate, but does the game really have to simulate having a sweaty, overbearing DM?

+1
My oath broke because goblins in the blighted village attacked me. I thought it was because a paly isn’t allowed to deal a killing blow, but everything was fine clearing out the goblin camp.

DEFINITELY need to make it easy to tell what breaks an Oath, but I also think Paladins should have Deity choice, I'm willing to bet the vast majority of Paladins in the setting serve a deity.

Your understanding is a little faulty here - not entirely incorrect, but a little off the mark.

Deities can be a large part, sometimes, and for many Paladins they are across all the realms, but they're not a necessary part by any means. You do not need to be dedicated to a deity, and it is not a pre-requisite in ANY realmspace, FR or otherwise. I'm not sure where you've gained the idea that Oath of Devotion specifically, in the FR specifically has intrinsically anything more or less to do with deities than anything else - it doesn't.

Following a deity is one option. It's an option many paladins follow - Many; not "all", not even "most", just "many".

We absolutely should not, under any circumstances whatsoever be required to select a deity for our paladins.

We should absolutely and with my complete and full support, have the option of doing so, because it is a valid option that many paladins take, and those who wish to follow a deity should not be denied the acknowledgement of doing so. Just so, those who don't should not be forced to. You don't need a deity to properly codify your oath's tenets - you just need to properly codify the tenets; a divine intermediary is a redundant and optional step in that process that one can follow if they are called to the duty by a deity they already follow, or if they choose to follow one that matches their duty.

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Better notifications of what will count as transgressing the tenets of your oath is definitely necessary and a good point to make, so a definite +1 to that element.

Frankly, I'd rather it not try to tangle with oaths and breaking them at all, than to emulate the kind of destructive, antagonistic, sweaty DM behaviour it's designed around at the moment.

Your post shares my exact thoughts!

I had a little play around with the paladin class earlier and this was both surprising and a little disappointing that you don't get the option to choose a deity that you are devoted to.
This feels like a missed opportunity for potential voice lines, dialogue options, and general RP value.

I get that your power as a paladin comes from your conviction in your oath, not in devotion to your deity like clerics, but for many paladins their entire identity and the reason for their oath is the deity they follow.

I completely agree that they could have had some fun by changing the tenets of your oath slightly depending on which deity you choose to be a devotee of, and depending on which deity you choose, how you break your oath may be different.

I have no problem that if you don't want to be devoted to a deity that this should be a choice, but it feels like for many this will not be the case.
Not all paladins are devoted to a god, but most, if not all, gods will have paladins devoted to them.

I think the lines are baked into the game based on your god. The devoted Paladin mod allowed you to pick a god for your prepatch 9 Paladin. Withers would comment about your choice of god. Myrkul(sp) had an interesting comment…

I broadly agree. Paladins not having a deity choice (not even as an option) is really not enthusing me from the standpoint of someone who's interested in the setting. Paladins should 100% have a deity choice-IMHO it should be mandatory since it should be a requirement in the setting-but I'd take anything I can get at this point. I am baffled why it got cut entirely. To get it out the door? Misconceptions on how paladins work in 5e Realmspace? Honestly I'm probably not going to touch the class again if deities aren't added in-this is a big deal for me.

In regards to the Oathbreaker guy-I think both becoming an Oathbreaker and Redeeming yourself is way too easy. The Fellow himself seems to be a glorified gameplay convenience without the writing supporting him to make him look anything but. The same guy who offers you a way to regain your powers should not be the same one to ask you to fall even further. Both IMO should be something you work for. Falling and redeeming yourself should not just be a paltry fee each and every time you pay-a paladin's oath should not be something you just ignore when inconvenient and just pay off like a parking ticket. Nor should a flaming skeleton guy teleport to paladins who break their oath like there's some sort of radar that detects oaths being broken. There should be some sort of quest or something for both of them, or at the very least you should have to actually seek out the npcs that offer these services. I generally regard the writing of BG III to be rather high, but this is just....I have a very negative opinion of it. Lets leave it at that.