Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Sleet Storm, the Wet Condition and Surfaces

I agree that surfaces on cantrips (or very cheap arrows) are a bit much, but I still think that the surface and elemental interactions are a unique selling point for Larian, and a lot of fun if they do not take over the game.

I would like to see some surfaces added, where it makes sense.
Fireball burns things and leaves a fire surface. Makes sense

For example, why are characters not wet when in a sleet storm?
You are literally in a giant storm of ice, with a lot of snow and the ground freezing continuously.

I don't think this is overpowered (in fact, this might make the spell worse, since you can not spam fireballs into the grouped up enemies anymore), but would make for some fun new combinations

I know this will probably be unpopular, and I know that there is a massive risk that Larian overdoes it again, and the elemental effects take over the game, but IF done right, I think it could really add to the game.

In general, I think these effects should become more common as you get stronger. A little fire puddle is a bit op for a cantrip (and even a lv 1 spell like chromatic orb), but not really problematic when it is a 3rd, 4th, 5th... level spell.

When firebolt created a surface, that surface was basically 2/3 of the power and damage of the cantrip, so obviously that was a massive and ridivulous buff. But adding a burning surface to fireball, or wetness to sleet storm would only increase the power of these spells a little bit, but increase the combinations and combos of spells a lot.

Please don't yell at me too much for blaspheming like this, and let me know your thoughts What other spells of 3rd level or higher should the elemental effects be added to?

Burn things : yes.
Leave a surface : NO !!!

I was EXTREMELY happy to see that they haven't gone this way during the PFH.
Surfaces as a core gamepley element : YES in DoS. NO in BG/DnD

Wetness is not a surface. Would you be ok with that?
Also, how do I add polls? I would be interested in public opinion without everyone having to write +/-1

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm not sure you can do it after your post is created, but to create a poll you have to "use full editor".

Having the "Wetness" status could be fine I guess. But those status are mostly used to play with surfaces and elemental attacks/items/... So I fear what it would look like (More damages from electricity arrow,...). To be honnest I personnaly think they have already overdone it with status effects and (de)buffs and magical status of all kind and conditions and charges and so on... So I would not mind if they don't add even more things.

Setting aside the arguments from a gameplay perspective, I guess it would make sense to have characters who have been caught in a sleet storm be wet. I’m not sure that a fireball would leave a fire surface though, unless that surface were flammable. Perhaps wooden floorboards would burn, but not rock, and taking that into account seems way too fiddly.

I think the surfaces are more a pain than a help in many cases, tactical strikes with spells are removed if one can only use them when your melee party members are not around the enemy. You'll risk harming allies otherwise. The wet condition makes cold and electricity spell overpowered, in my opinion.

Not to mention, it's an indirect nerf to the Evoker's Sculpt Spell ability, unless the party is also not affected by the surface created by the Evocation spell.

Overall, it's just a mess, DOS systems just don't mesh with 5e's systems in a good way. The spells are designed in the ways they are for a reason. Damage dice, effects, etc. They're good enough as long as one doesn't monkey with the parameters of the system, but when one does they need to adjust other parts, and this type of design may snowball into more and more problems. This all results in the mess we've got now, sadly.

That is something that needs to be fixed in general imo, it should give advantage on making the saving throw against the spell, not straight up double the damage taken. It is a bit silly.


I like the idea of surfaces. The only problem I have is that they are not treated like DnD effects. There are spells, that damage you as you move over them etc. But they don't deal automatic damage, but only with a saving throw. That is how surfaces should be treated too.

Basically, you can run through fire as much as you want, but when entering the fire or starting your turn there, you make a dex saving throw, and take 1d4 on a failed one, or none if you pass the save.

That way, they are in line with normal spell effects and everything is fine. Since, lets be honest, 1d4 damage per turn hardly matters, the real problem is UNAVOIDABLE damage, even if it is miniscule, since it triggers concentration saves

It doesn't seem to be in line in my opinion because players targeted by a fireball only make 1 saving throw.
If there are surface for a few turns after someone cast the spell : it is additional saving throw each turns, eventually additionnal damages each turns, and additional chances for your concentration to be broken each turns.

Unavoidable damages are worse of course but so many ST does not seem to be a good idea to me. Concentration broken too often is something I read a lot and one of the main reason is surfaces (from spells but not only).

Don't get me wrong I also like the idea of surfaces... but if it's subtle enough not to be too intrusive on the gameplay.

I avoid concentration spells almost entirely now because it’s WAY to easy to break them.

I think it is really interesting that that is the perception of most people, since I basically never loose concentration. Maybe I just don't notice? Or maybe I play way more defensively than other people? (My combats also take very long...)

Idk. But a surface like I described for fireball (on the start of your turn/ when first moving into the effect) would add one saving throw with DC10. The basic fireball gives you a DC between 10 and 14. I can see that that is problematic. I think a solution would be to remove the DC10 floor for concentration saves.

If it always is damage/2 as DC, then fire would give a concentration save between DC1 and DC2. Basically you can only fail with a natural 1, so 5%...
So that would basically limit the effect to just dealing damage, without breaking concentration

I am really not in favour of more DOS-like surfaces entering BG3. There was a long fight to get cantrips like firebolt/chromatic orb changed so they don't leave surfaces (not sure that some still dont). The proliferation of cheap options to create surfaces, even at low levels, is already making the game less enjoyable, for me at least. And even having to make 1 concentration check, rather than 0, could be deadly in the wrong circumstances - you may now lose the only spell keeping you safe, vs not having had that chance e.g. you are almost dead, invisble and trying to sneak out of a room...but now there's a burning/freezing floor to worry about. In 5E damage dealing/effects are carefully balanced - each change has consequences, some of which can only be seen much further down the line. Sleet storm already provides a chance of falling prone - but it is 3rd level spell and the effect makes sense, the icy patch is created by the spell itself, and this makes it dangerous for non-dextrous characters. The ease with which BG3 allows surfaces to be created - that accomplish nearly the same thing with a cantrip - greatly undermines a spell like sleet storm.

No to fireball leaving a surface. Aside from fireball already being too powerful of a spell, it just wouldn't set the ground on fire. Have you ever tried making a campfire? If you hold up a lighter to wood, the twig/log doesn't immediately catch on fire. It takes time and care to actually catch most things on fire, even more so for (wet) grass, dirt, stone - all the various types of surfaces in BG3.

VERY LIMITED surface usage could be cool in BG3, but it has to be done well. The consequences of each surface should be considered and balanced with the rest of 5e mechanics.

How is fireball too powerful? I can't seem to get a sorc/wiz to 5(keep rerolling) to see why.

It's one of my favorite spells.

+1

I agree also that surface is a cool extra feature but only on things that makes sense. Fireball leaves fire surfaces in wood, leafs, grass,...Water and wet status can be more general however as everything can be wet. Oil surfaces also to interact with and such are great imo.

I still think surfaces are still overdone in patch 9 and need to be toned down overall.

The AoE bombs and arrows every goblin seems to have and never misses with are extremely annoying. It doesn't matter how high you have to aim, the surface is always formed exactly where you want it and never misses. Arrows don't work like that, and bombs are not that accurate.

Fireball could leave a few small ground fires for 1 turn just for flavor and consistency. But a surface spell it is not.

Ray of Frost - using this cantrip is really annoying because of how much everyone bleeds. It very often results in an AoE prone effect, knocking down your own companions as well. I'd like to see this freezing removed.

Chromatic Orb - really hate that I have to trade 1d8 damage for a surface I don't want or need. This spell is for exploiting enemy vulnerabilities and causing 6d8 damage. I'd like to see the surfaces removed or presented as an alternative use case when aimed at the ground. I.e. 3d8 OR surface for AoE effect. But I'd settle for just 3d8 and axe the pointless surfaces.

Sleet Storm looked really cool with it's huge AoE.. before Minotaurs just jump-teleported over the entire 20m area and I got annoyed at the slapstick combat again.

The WET condition is obviously ridiculously overpowered, buffing Glyph of Warding (Lightning or Cold) into 10d8, or Lightning Bolt into 16d6. It should be a saving throw Disadvantage instead. But Larian have proved many times already they don't get Saving Throws in the 5e system.

Fireball was designed to be too powerful because it's such an iconic spell. https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/177-spell-spotlight-fireball

According to the spell creation rules in the DMG (pg 284), fireball has enough power to be a 4th or 5th level spell. A "typically powerful" 3rd level spell should do 6d6 damage.

More specifically, it was a unique selling point for D:OS1&2, games that externalised what traditionally are roll based status effects, into physical areas on the map. A very neat design, but not one that naturally fits a system not designed with that in mind. Problems are already apparent.

I am not against the system itself - it worked very well in D:OSs, and I am not opposed to adapting some of it, but it needs to be adapted well. So far my experience with EA only soured me on surfaces in this game. In D:OSs they were the game - here they get in the way of the game.