Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Help Tips & Tricks Confused about weapons proficiencies and classes in 5e/BG3

I've always been very familiar with 2e and BG2, but haven't done a lot since then. 5e looks like it is a lot closer to 2e than 3/4 was, which is nice.

My confusion is that you no longer put proficiency points into individual weapons or skills, like longsword, 2 weapon fighting, and so on. In 5e, every character/class has a proficiency bonus based on their level, which will add bonuses to any weapon they are proficient with. In BG2/2e, a fighter could load up proficiency points in a weapon and really outclass other classes with it. In this, it seems like anyone with simple or martial weapon proficiency is basically equal?

Does this mean that a level 3 fighter with a longsword or bow has the same bonus and capabilities as any other class with those weapons proficiencies, like bard, etc?
Or, for example, a cleric has the same bonuses and capabilities with a mace as a fighter or anyone else?

Or am I missing something? What separates a fighter, or rogue, or makes up for their lack of spells and other utility, if a cleric can hit just as well with a mace, or a bard can shoot a bow or swing a sword just as well as them? Can a sorcerer or wizard pick up "martial weapons" feat and swing a longsword just as well as a fighter?

Obviously stats matter, like STR and DEX, but again, is a wizard with 14 dex just as good with a bow as a rogue, ranger, or fighter with 14 dex?

What separates these classes, if anything?

Only Rangers, Fighters, and Paladins have access to Fighting Styles. Though the Fighter has access to all Fighting Styles, whereas Paladins and Rangers have access to a only a subset. Fighter also have access to more feats than other classes, though the Rogue gets one extra feat. Not to mention, only Fighters have access to Extra Attack(2) and Extra Attack(3). Of course, hitting with a weapon is determined, fundamentally, by proficiency and one's stat modifier with said weapon, yes. Though I couldn't imagine that the casters would be able to focus Strength or Dexterity like the fighting classes can, they have other attributes to worry about.

Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, one of the expansion books, did allow one to trade a feat for a Fighting Style though. We've no confirmation that anything from the expansion books will be added to the game, of course.

Thanks for asking the question @cronuss, and answering it @Ignatius. I'd been wondering the same thing!

Okay, makes sense I suppose. I'm a little hazy on how the feats and fighting styles are unlocked and when/how. There seems to be minimal documentation for BG3, maybe I should just pull out a 5e handbook instead?

So, given what you said, the difference between, say, a fighter/ranger and another class would be the following, using a bow as an example:

-Fighter more likely to have higher DEX and attack/dmg bonuses from it
-Fighter can choose Archery fighting style (only 1 fighting style can be chosen, correct?) This provides +2 to bows
-Fighter can attack more times per round
-Fighter can get more feats, but would any help with any of this? I need to find an active feats list for BG3 as well as when/how they are unlocked...

So, in a bubble, a wizard with equal STR or DEX of a fighter, would be just as adequate with a single attack of a given weapon as a fighter? The main difference is just the ability to attack more often? I guess that is good enough, it is just very different than the system I am used to.

If I made a sorcerer with 18 STR. I would be just as good with a longsword as a fighter, but the fighter can attack more often? Is that what this boils down to?

If I'm understanding things correctly, yes as long as the fighter didn't have any weapon style that made them better at fighting with a longsword, such as Duellist. Plus, unless your sorceror was a race that had longsword proficiency (eg elf) they'd not get their proficiency bonus with anything except staves, daggers or light crossbows. And unless they invested in armour feats, at the expense of ones that might be more useful to them as sorcerors, they'd probably not want to be close enough to the enemy to stab them with a sword anyway! Though I guess that latter might be mitigated by use of some spells.

An as you say, it's a bit hard to know what difference feats would make over time until we get the full list that would be available, but I guess just thinking about Ability Score Increases alone is that, for a fighting class, you'd naturally be putting points into stats that are going to make them better over time, whereas if you did that for a sorceror then it would mean foregoing increases to CHA which is unlikely to be a good tradeoff.

Thanks. With Feats, when do we get to choose them? Level 4? Also level 8? Is it the same for all classes?

All classes get them at fourth level, and multiples of four thereafter, except the last is granted at level nineteen, as opposed to twenty. I'd need to look at the Fighter class table to remember at what level their bonus feats fall on, the first one is at 6th level though.

With the big caveat that I am only a BG3 EA player, not 5e PnP, and one that rarely has a fighter in her party, I think within EA we only get to choose a feat at level 4 at the moment, along with other classes. But fighters also get other abilities at other levels, such as Action Surge at level 2 (which gives an ability to get one extra attack per ... short rest, maybe?) and the aforementioned Extra Attack at level 5. Plus, at level 3 a fighter gets to decide whether to be a Battlemaster and get yet more different sorts of attack, or Eldritch Knight and start learning some magic as well. I don't know, but I suspect that if you want to be a magic-wielding fighter then the latter would be a better option than a sorceror with a sword, though unless the fighter puts points into INT they have to pick the spells they're going to be using carefully, and will end up a worse fighter than a Battlemaster and worse magic user than a Sorceror, but of course with more flexibility so that's the trade off!

Beyond level 5 I can't comment. There's stuff about 5e feats at https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/fighter but how Larian will implement this I don't know.

And it's been said before, but I'll say it again, BG3 really needs some kind of representation of how the class will develop over time so you can see what your options are going to be and make choices now that help you create the character you want. I found the sheer variety of class choices in Pathfinder Kingmaker utterly bewildering, but it had what I thought was a really good representation of what abilities each would give when that was extremely helpful!

The simple answer is that the classes define themselves by their class perks and abilities now, more than by passive benefits to base mechanics - so, while, yes, a wizard with 14 dex and the weapon master feat giving them access to a long bow has the same basic ability to hit and deal damage with that bow as a fighter with 14 dex does... the fighter has, or has access to, many and various elements that enhance their ability to do this - fighting styles, feats and other class abilities that, for example, give them a flat bonus to hitting or damage with certain weapons, extra attacks, the ability to ignore or reduce cover for their targets, and so on. Even without any extra feats, the Wizard at level 5 can make one shot with their bow, at base calculation, while the fighter at level five who chose archery as her fighting style can make up to four shots on a single turn with that same bow, and have a higher bonus to hit with it.

In terms of feats: After 6th level, until level 16, fighters functionally get a feat every 2 class levels instead of every 4 (so at 6, 10 and 14, as well as the normal ones at 8, 14 and 16), for a total of 3 additional feats on top of the 5 everyone potentially gets - these can be used to increase your ability scores as well, so fighters in particular have an easier time capping out the ability scores they want to, without sacrificing flexibility.

Yes, agreed. This was very helpful in the Pathfinder games, and in general is very important to be able to see this. Solasta does it as well.

Makes sense, thanks for the explanation