Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General When will the marketing campaign start

Was i?

I never heared about Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic III. being in development ... and im very interested in it.

If you are looking for major developments like those that were happening in 90s and early 00s you will just not find those - in any genre. There needs to be a major development in what is possible for such changes to happen. Since 7th generation things were pretty uneventful. Gradual enhancements but no game changing developments, aside from more and more aggressive monatization. VR seemed like the next possible thing, but it is just doesn't seem to go anywhere. Maybe it is too expensive for now to really make an impact. If you are waiting for an RPG that won't look or play like older RPGs - I think you will have to wait. Since I was actively playing (so about 20 years) games have been mostly just getting prettier.

I thought D:OS1&2 were actually very little like classic RPGs - they use their own quest design and world structure, they focus on coop and player to player interactions, favour sandbox systems. Combat system is unique (on a side note during "golden age of RPGs" Sven wasn't about to make turn based RPG as it wasn't deemed as fashinable at the time) and translating status effects into on map surfaces that can be used tactically through positioning and changed by adding new status effects on top of the old ones have been a very clever and novel design. I can't recall an RPG before where players could talk and argue with each other in game. I do say, that my feelings toward D:OS2 and BG3 are cooler - I feel they Larian didn't develop their own ideas, and istead focuses on adding stuff players expect from RPGs.

PoE1&2 definitely harken back to old, but I think you are also overlooking the fact that they don't play completely like the old games. The system is completely original - overlooking how the game plays I think would be a big mistake. Evolution is on a systemic level, rather than technological one. I also don't remember any game before doing reputations like PoE does them. Nor companions that would join conversation as much as companions in Deadfire.

On a similar level Disco Elysium has some very clever designs when it comes to reactivity and character building. The companion you get is incredibly complex, but I can't tell if there is something special about his design, or just so many resources were poured into a single companion that he stands out.

I think that saying that modern RPGs didn't evolve, is a bit like looking at DOOM and new shooters and saying they haven't evolved because you are still just clicking on enemies. Yes, the last major changes to RPGs happened when they were translated into new platform - consoles. So yeah, recent more PC centric releases feel a bit more "oldschool" as they are being designed once again for PC again. Unless there will be new platform to translate RPGs to, new interesting control method, or a new techology appears that will set a completely new standard for what is possible, I don't think we will see a groundbreaking new design.

Yes, I too wish we had more truly interesting titles like Dark Souls, Death Stranding or Outer Wilds, but like with any medium I think one needs to accept that a lot of new things done will be expanding on existing ideas, and only occasionally trully new ways of thinking will emerge. The question about cRPG isn't "are they like the old ones" but "are they expanding/improving on what the old ones did" and "is there more one could do in the genre". If the answer is "yes", than there is a very good reason for those games to be made.

Yes you were Rag. You can't be interested in the development of a game if you don't know that the development is happening. You can though, be interested of learning that it is happening or will happen in the future, i.e. hoping to hear/read/get news about it. It's a small difference in definitions but it's there.

Ok, i take the compliment.

I have a little questionwhat is the average age of players of BG 1 + 2, DOS 1 +2, Pillars of eternity, or Arcanum. I'm in my late forties, I was in my early twenties when BG was released. Being so old I ten to watch to those games in a very nostalgic way, but I also remember that at the end of the 90's a RPG that make a huge impact was released too: Daggerfall. The only game, before Disco Elisyum, in my experience obviously, it was Daggerfall. Wich had a bigger impact on the spreading of RPG videogames than BG.

Nevertheless there is another thing I remember well: in those days weren't common as today, neither were consoles, furthermore being videogamers was saw as being outcasts, and rpg players had a long way before The Bing Bang theory (and the pandemic) made role playing mainstream.

What happens when market grows? Software houses need to adjust to reach the bigger audience possible (indie producers maybe start as that but if they want a serious income and profit they have to evolve and adpat).

Role Playing is an idea that can be developped in different ways: tabletop, in real life role play, video games. Table top requires some basic rules to make it possible manage battles and chats between characters (otherwise the dungeon master would gone mad because everyone attempt to speak or make their battle moment in the same time.

As I said before is part of the charm of table top games, the question that arise is if is it possible to create a videogame that follows D&D tabletop rules in the more faithful way possible. There's a lot of irony in the fact that the rpg games that made a breakthrough in the area (Dragon Age Origins, Daggerfall, Divinity Original Sin) are games that broke a lot of D&D tabletop rules, either in character creation, magic management, battle management.

That been said, the problem is that in the current days videogames are taking two very distinct ways: or being utterly difficult (Elden Ring, as example, for casual players is hell) or really dumbed down (Skyrim and a lot of MMORPGs) or come out full of bugs (Cyber punk 2077), that is on one side the target is a niche of players that love to put their skills on test with compelling challenges, on the other side there are casual players that pay to have a full experience with little work, we can see that in mobile games were there is an abbundance of games in wich the only way to advance is to have a trust fund, so here we have the Bethesda fall down (Skyrim is a shadow of what Daggerfall and Morrowind were), Larian was able to find a middle way withe DOS 1 and 2 giving players the option to play with different difficult levels but again those games didn't follow the rules of magic use and battle tabletop's systems.

More recently Outerworlds (Obsidian) showed that party based games without day/night cicle can still have a big impact, while open worlds start showing they limits.

BG3 is a game that appeals to nostalgia of some games while trying to hit a bigger audience. That means that the full game has to give more than tickiling players' nostalgia (isometric, party group, lack of day night cycle, turn based battles) wich means story has to be really engaging, characters have to have equally interesting background stories.

The early access shows some promises but also it revealed how Larian has become more inclined to fan pressure (I'll have answers to some qestions about the use of flexibility instead of a banal hardening the difficulty of the game in an attempt to appease the hardcore d&d table top players), and if they are going to have the courage to avoid fan pleasing the herosexuality (yes, I'm on the side of the idea that a good game doesn't have to rely in completely submission to fan service), but I still have a lot of doubts (and the fact that they haven't said anything about digital versions while pushing for a very expensive limited collectors edition, that again appeals to a segment of players, doesn't help).

First of all I wouldn't call Outer Worlds party based - yes you get two followers, but it is still first person combat first, and companion management is minimal and optional. I also would be careful with drawing any conclusions about OW success outside it releasing after 76 was a fortunate timing.

Isometric doesn't have to mean <old school>. Diablo 4 is isometric 3D. Plays and looks pretty damm nice. Makes me wish BG3 had similar art direction with a wider area camera. Imagine this image with a higher up view , and 6 party members
And it rains! Unlike the entirety of BG3 EA.
As for a 23 year old game, BG2 is old but still looks great. Asking a non gamer (my wife) which picture looks better, she says the bottom one

D4's art style after playing it on PS5 is incredible. Baldur's Gate 3 has a ..I don't know how to describe it, sort of like a theatre production vibe to it if that makes any sense. It's not going to change now, but damn, D4 is looking incredible for the most part.

Artistically it feels very much like a sequel to NWN2 by the creators of DOS2. The pathfinder games remind me much more of BG. IMO of course..

I can speak on this a lot more, as I am youngest member here of you all, I think. And I play a lot of those games and crpgs. It's true that these types of games are outdated. Even in myself- I have more focus then most of my generation- I find it hard to sit and watch the combat last longer then 10 min. An average gamer now has the 1 min patience. This is why shooters and fps games have a 30 sec respawn timer. You run for 30s, you die, you wait, you respawn.

Secondly rng is something dispised by my generation. Games are about skill and positioning, loosing when you did everthing right feels bad. Myself find missing hits infuriating to the point of rage quits. IN BG3, it's less of an issue as you can do gargantuan damage by not using dice. I play this game almost exclusively by throwing bombs and aoe effects. In DOS2 I would teleport around a crate with 99999 weight to kill bosses. For me this is fun.

Now larian does a poor job in guiding or marketing said tactics to players both in game and in videos. If they did so, they could make more profit, as all people like to have fun by killing things in weird ways. Instead my generation sees these games as a click and wait simulator

There's a lot of generalization in your post. You might feel this way, and you might have noticed *some* others feeling or acting similarly, but you probably shouldn't attempt to speak for an entire generation of people.

Even *if* your entire generation felt this way, that doesn't necessarily mean that BG3 should be marketed (or designed) for y'all. There are at least 3--probably 4--generations of people who I'd expect will play this game.

I am well aware of that, this game is primarily for fans of Baulder's gate, or DoS2. Its dos2 that brought me here. And I think most people would agree that game is designed in a way to cater to my generation. A lot of flashy effects, minimal strategy, lots of abilities, faster combat, free respec, infinite ways to get easy gear etc. Hopefully this game will please all the fans

The gaming community is MUCH larger now than it was when Baldur's Gate 1&2 were released. However, even though cRPG enthusiasts may be a smaller percentage of the total now, in absolute terms there are much more of us.

In other words, pursuing a niche in 2023 can be more rewarding than pursuing the mainstream in past years. Pursuing the mainstream now just means that you are competing with everybody else who is doing the same and... you are leaving niche money on the table for somebody else to pick up.

Meh, that makes about as little sense to me like saying that one has to aim in a shooter, or jump precisely in platformer. Not that every tactical combat system needs %tohit system, but some kind of "unknown" is necessary - be it unpredictable reaction of human opponent, chance to hit, randomised skilled or unknown threat (fog of war etc). %toHit isn't necessarily my favourite way of making players think, but it does a good enough job.

By this time do you think all DnD, larian, BG, crpg fans have heard about bg3?

As Matt Mercer is involved they could get CR involved. Having them play the DM mode would be great advertising.

WoTC can be involved with marketing the game, they have reach and DnD beyond.

If they have done some market research I wonder how many players would buy the game but have no knowledge of the game. There would be many waiting for release, awaiting for certain details etc before deciding to buy...but that group will find out what they need without needing some marketing campaign. Also larian will look a current sales and look at what worked for dos2.