Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General So What Extra Things Do You Hope To See On Release

We shouldn't need modders to come in from behind to create and maintain basic features. Games shouldn't continue to become DIY hobbyist kits. Its also a very long distance away from "everyone is satisfied" given the lack of modding availability on most platforms, and the lack of engagement from most users on PC. Compare the unique downloads for the Unofficial Skyrim Patch to the number of copies sold on PC. Modding is great, I mod, but most users don't engage with it at all, even on PC, even on games with a much larger and stronger modding community.


The fact that it gives the player something, and yet takes nothing away, and there is therefore no logically coherent and sane argument against it. If you want your plate armor to look like plate armor, in every outfit/transmog system that I've seen in the last decade and a half, you'll be accommodated. If you think the plate armor looks bad, and want to preserve your character's aesthetic without sacrificing playability, you'll also be accommodated. It is all upside, no downside. I don't know if you've just never encountered such a system, but items don't cease to carry their own appearance when players are given the option to override that appearance. This has been the standard implementation across the gaming industry for a long long time.

If you're trying to make some sort of realism argument, I'd recommend the people concerned about that deal with it the same way they deal with everyone taking turns, at-will time freezing, save reloading, humans with naturally purple skin and pink hair, magic mini maps, half naked barbarian men tanking crossbow bolts to the bare chest without lasting injury or death, and all the rest of the various concessions already made to being a video game with customizable player created characters.


How so?

Without an outfit/transmog system, you collect items which give your character various stat boosts, abilities, and also alter your appearance if equipped.
With such a system, you...collect items which give your character various stat boosts, abilities, and also alter your appearance if equipped.

Where's the change I'm missing that rendered all loot meaningless?


I'm honestly surprised to be encountering any resistance to such a basic, universal, no-loss feature. It's like having someone argue the game shouldn't have the ability to save progress or remap key bindings.

With a transmog system you don't collect an item, you collect separately a stat block and an appearance. While it was fine in Hogwarts Legacy because of their super generic stat blocks, I find such a system silly in D&D since items have a strong identity that reflect those stats and effects. An "ugly" item has a reason to be that way and it tells a story about your character, its play style, and the adventure it went through.
Is it a no-loss feature? Yes. I have a thousand other features I would like to see first though.

Takes nothing away? What if it isn't just wizard robes, what if it's the Robes of Vecna, should you be allowed to visually swap out those robes just because they "harsh your vibe" . What if you're given raiment from a divine avatar, and people comment about it when you wear it, but you're not really wearing it.
Should you be allowed to just willy-nilly decide what your character is wearing because you, outside of the game, want to play dress-up? I like playing dress-up too, but I don't want to do so at the game I'm playing's narrative expense.

I genuinely am not seeing your problem here. If this game actually had people reaching to your armor that would be something else, but it's not a thing that happens. We already willy-nilly decide what our character is wearing. If the system existed then that gives me even more freedom to decide what makes sense for my character from a narrative standpoint without being beholden to mechanical requirements needed to make them effective. If say, my haracyer is given an armor as a reward for a quest that had a very personal effect on her early in the game, then I don't end up having to swap it out part because the armor can't keep up even though my character herself wouldn't actually make that choice in-character.

Being beholden to mechanical requirements is a feature not a bug. You don't currently decide willy-nilly what you wear, first you have to be proficient in the armor in question or you are penalized. Next you have to weigh the pros and cons of armor you have available to you with their AC score and magical abilities. Sometimes one armor is better only in a specific scenario. Also, armor doesn't progress at the same rate as class levels, so any armor you get early in the game is probably going to be viable throughout, even if it's not optimal.

Moreover, items in Baldur's Gate and D&D are meant to be substantial incentives and actors in the narrative. Treating them as skins goes against that.

Also I read that first as Mr. Haracyer and I would like to use that for a character in the future.

There allready are encounters ...
They just arent random.

Seems like covenient excuse, since i dont really know what is to "not understand" on question "why" ... but w/e is thats the way you feel.

Then you either find it weird and swap it back to fits your desires ...
Or you dont give a shit and leave it as it is ...

Where is problem?

No, you dont want US to do so at the game where we are playing narrative expense.

See the difference?
If you wouldnt want to do so, you would simply not do so ...
By being against feature itself, you are trying to deny that option to others ...

Its nothing new in games, especialy not in DnD, and superespecialy not around here ...

Except ... they are not.

See that is beauty of optional features ...
You dont use them and you have your game just as pure and beautiful as it would be if that feature wouldnt be there ... meaning exactly as you want it.
Or you do ... and your game is better for it, bcs it does what you want it to do.

Sure you do ...

At goblin camp you find Metal Shield with Flaming Fist insigmia ... you like it, so you equip it ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.
A little later you kill Minthara ... you like her shield, so you switch them ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.
Then for some reason you equip wooden shield with the symbol of the Absolute ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.
And in the end you find shield in Kuo-Toa cave, wich is basicaly just a Shell with some fishnet stuck on it, its neat so you equip it ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.
You can also find entangled roots that drops from Wood Woad ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.

You like Shadowheart armor > you equip it ... basicaly you are pronouncing to the world that you are Sharan ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.
Same story goes with that upgraded Sharan armor from Grymforge.

You like Lae'zel armor > you equip it ... when you meet Githyanki, the only way you can get such armor would be from one of them, so you are admiting that you either robbed, or killed their kin ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences.

You dont wear anything but your underpants ... not even single NPC in the world notice, no consequences, especialy when you are Barbarian, Wizard, or Sorcerer ... so it dont even affect your AC.

Where is difference?

Thats also not true ...

For one, if items in Baldur's Gate were meaned as "substantial incentives and actors in the narrative" the world would need to recognize that we are wearing them ... wich isnt happening.

For two, transmogrification in fact goes in line with narrative ...
Shadowheart is Sharan, weird Sharan who likes to give crest of her believes on plain sight, while talking about secrecy, but still Sharan ... wearing armors with Shar symbols is in her character.
Lae'zel is Githyanki, she is xenophobic, proud and convinced of her superiority ... she would never wear anything that isnt Githyanki product ... this way, she can.

Sure, people can make silly transmogs ... but if they do, logic suggest that they wanted to, so what?

This is a pattern of you saying things that don't mean much to me. Sometimes when challenged on this you'll backtrack and try to turn it into a question.

If I was really worried about what YOU wanted to do, I would be clamoring for Larian to ban mods to the game. What I am interested in is what the game does.

The problem with trying to engage with you Ragnarok is I'm never sure if you don't understand the point or don't care to.
This is what I think when you appear to not understand loot is a major driver of the narrative. You adventure to gain things; gear, knowledge and gold(which you mostly turn into gear). Sometimes items are even more significant to the plot, currently we get a few key items, but in most adventures it doesn't stop there.

As for your examples with the shields, they're again things that have nothing to do with a transmogrification system, and as has already been stated by both of us, something we agree should happen more in the game. As for your examples with the armor, I would consider that a shortcoming of the game, if you think those are good things about the game, then apparently you think a transmog system is good too.

An item by definition is "a stat block and an appearance", trying to draw an imaginary line here is (poorly) arguing for the sake of argument. Leather armor doesn't have some super deep worldbuilding lore for being ugly, its just ugly, and if you really need it to be ugly, you're in luck - you can always just keep the item's standard appearance.

"Wow, its the robe of summer, and instead of green, its red! Such deep lore!" How can any self respecting person take such a thing seriously? It tells a story about your character? "Hey guys, remember that time I found a really ugly shirt that was 1 AC higher?", truly a tale for the ages.

...Yes? Is this a serious question, or some weird post-irony thing where you argue facetiously to try and highlight how ridiculous opposition to an outfit system would be?

If you encounter "the Robes of Vecna", and you enjoy the way they look, you...keep the way they look. And if you don't, you don't. If you feel somehow penalized or slighted by total strangers not looking the way you'd prefer them to look in a single player video game, I don't know what to tell you, or how to take you seriously.

What if I create a Drow but change the skin color to the exact same tone as Shadowheart, giving nobody any visual indication of any kind that I'm a Drow, and yet characters still say things like "holy hells, under-elf!" when they see me?

What if equipped item string is stored in variable X, and equipped appearance string is stored in variable Y, and the item-based commentary that doesn't exist in this game and that we have no reason to expect were to instead reference variable Y instead of variable X? What if Larian needed to take fifteen, maybe as many as twenty extra minutes to make such a change in order to support an extremely common and basic feature?

Yes, of course. Kind of like how I can already be a Lolth-sworn Drow with blue eyes, or a dainty human barbarian girl with 21 strength and reddit hair, or any number of other appearance customizations that divorce lore, mechanics, logical sense, and visual depiction, all while simultaneously not bothering any sane person because of their totally voluntary nature.


This compulsion to control the appearance of strangers in a single player RPG is absolutely bizarre, and is leading people down a path where they have to start hallucinating armor commentary features or imagining non-existent Half-Plate +1 lore to try and justify it.

You've said a lot of things here which make it clear you have no interest in roleplaying in this setting. So I guess we'll just have to agree that we're interested in two very different concepts of what an RPG is.

You should spend less time losing arguments online, and more time trying to understanding the definition of things like role playing if you think "poorly defending the sanctity of leather armor" fits the definition.

Tell me what you think roleplaying is then?

Behaving as the character would, making choices the character would make.

For the sake of comedy, I'll pretend that I'd love to hear the tortured logic behind the idea that having a character appear in a way that befits their character is anti-roleplay, and that I would especially love to hear the surely well thought out explanation as to how some dude in Mongolia dressing his Warlock up in Sorceror robes destroys the viability of roleplaying across the entire audience.

Let's all just chill

Behaving as the character would? How does a transmogrification system have anything to do with what your character would do? It seems, and your rationalization for it, seem to be only about the player's druthers. It doesn't have anything to do with the setting, and where it might through illusion magic, magic has rules you'd have to abide by.

A Warlock can dress up in Sorcerer's robes, that isn't what you want.

I was happy to leave at us agreeing to disagree, still am

Transmog systems always felt off to me.

To me items we collect are defined by couple of it's aspects - damage, special properties, equipment requirements - and yes their looks. Being able to casually override any of those feels to me like undermining that items uniqueness. To me items look and their statistics shouldnt be so easily separated.

I of course, have my personal preferences - I don't care much for playing a dress up, but I do like my choices to be visually represented.

That said, transmog system doesn't affect my personal experience, so I don't really care about it's existence- of it is in a game I just tend to not use it.

I love transmog! I love the Druid starting armor and would like to keep the look with upgraded stats. I also like having my armor match.🍃

I don't know, you'd have to ask the minds that imagined some kind of negative connection between controlling a character's appearance and the concept of roleplaying in a fumbled attempt to justify a need for control.

As a reminder, the sequence of events is I suggested an outfit system, like most RPGs made in the last decade, and then got a string of increasingly incoherent replies about the insult this would do to the lore behind Hide Armor's appearance, or how it might interfere with the NPC commentary on player equipment that doesn't exist, culminating in how this somehow meant I "have no interest in roleplaying in this setting". So you now asking me what transmog has to do with roleplaying is a little cartoonish.

If anything, allowing a separation between the player's concerns (stats, abilities, "player likes best AC score") and the character's concerns (appearance, "Drow supremacist likes Drow armor") would improve the latitude given to roleplaying. It certainly can't diminish it, once again being totally optional.

A better question might be how do you envision forcing a conflict between player interest and character interest to improve roleplaying?

It doesn't need to have anything to do with the setting. We're talking about the player controlling the character's appearance in a video game menu, not a character having a spell to change their underwear with an accompanying five hour quest line for Withers to explain the lore of thongs to you.



Look at that, Astarion is wearing a helmet, and receiving the stat bonus of that helmet...but it looks like he isn't. The visual and stat components of the item have been separated. What an outrage.

Can you imagine if some guy in Tajikistan had The Hairnet of Vecna equipped...and it didn't even show!? Personal roleplaying experience: DESTROYED. Totally disrespectful to the lore of "Leather Helmet" as well, not to mention all the various NPC comments* on Astarion's helmet that don't even make sense now. He didn't even use illusion magic, disgraceful.

*doesn't actually exist

Increasingly incoherent indeed.

I don't have to defend why transmogrification isn't realistic, that's why the onus is on you, so far your justifications have been: I want it, you're stupid, and other games do it.

For the record, I don't particularly like the hide helmet option, but people doffing their caps isn't reality distorting. Not that that really seems to concern you.

Maybe I'm naive but I would think that a character in the world's chief concern would be not dying at the altar of fashion.

If you would just be more frank about what is motivating your desire for a transmog system, like Icelyn, I could at least respect your choice, but couching it in this argument around roleplaying and character verisimilitude wasn't a winning tact. So, you're uninterested in the setting, the game is just a cool way to cosplay, I can get behind that, just don't tell me it's true to the setting, lore, or gameplay.

I'm not sure what your point about a theoretical Mongolian or Tajikistani clothes horse is.

In what universe is "Why?" not a question? O_o

Good effort, but nope again ... mods are compeltely different topics.
Thats not about what we want to do in this game, thats about what we want to change about game itself.

This was just my way to call you purist, without needing to use that word ... there is lots of them around here, being bothered by existence of something they dont like, even tho its existence dont affect them in any way ...

I allready know i will never be able to understand such people ... and quite honestly, the whole premise makes me sad ...
Maybe bcs i was raised with different values, but my mottos is "to live and to let live" rather than "destroy everything that dont fit to your image of world". :-/
Sigh ... maybe in next few hundert years ... i know its naive dream, but its beautiful one.

Okey ... but why?
Its the simplest question that exist. xD

I will not repeat it whole, but two points:
You want transmog > you transmog.
You dont want transmog > you dont transmog.

Whats the problem?

Feeling is mutual ...
Except im almost sure that you are ignoring my questions on purpose.

I only wonder about reason ... but i have my bets.

Seems unfinished ...

Yes, you adventure to gain those things ... yes, they can be significant ... and?

How so?
That is pure example of Transmogrification system ... you have item and the only thing that is changing is its appearance, no futher consequences, no reactivity, nothing ... all the same, it just looks different.

Ok, why?
Im really trying to understand what is so horrible about it, but you are not helping much ...
You stated that you dont like it ... i accept it ... now i want to know reasoning behind it ...

Duh ...
Did you expect me to try convince you that Transmog system is pure benefits and no flaws, bcs i think its bad?

As said abowe ...

Shadowheart wears symbols of Shar > wearing armor that have symbols of Shar on it is what she would do > transmogrify statwise-better armor into her amor fits her character, bcs she wouldnt swap those armors.

Lae'zel wears armor of her people > wearing armor of her people is what she would do > transmogrify statwise-better armor into her amor fits her character, bcs she wouldnt swap those armors.

Astarion is spoiled Noble > wearing gorgeous looking dress is what he would do > transmogrify statwise-better armor into his dress fits his character, bcs he wouldnt swap those armors.

And on and on ...

You have to remember that Transmog isnt necesarily part of the world ...
If its for example done purely as part of interface and never mentioned by anyone ... from their (roleplaying) perspective, you still have the same armor, and NOTHING changed.

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+1 to all said.
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+100
My only wish is that more people would see wisdom behind theese words.

Okay folks, feels to me as though we’re now past agree to disagree stage. But if there’s any more chat on this topic, let’s make it friendly and accepting of others’ rights to their preferences, even if we don’t share them.