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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2023
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As we inch closer to launch, I've been thinking of which non-PHB subclasses could get added. For the purposes of this discussion I'm going to try to list 1 subclass for each PHB class based on likelihood (speculative of course) and my personal preference. I'm also going to try to skew toward more popular/established subclasses so I would be looking at more Xanathar's and Sword Coast Adventure Guide than Tasha's or Fizban's.
Barbarian: Storm Herald
My first thought for Barbarian was Path of the Beast, but I think that thematically plays close to Totem/Wildheart, so I decided to go with Storm Herald which would have a completely different feel from both Berserker and Wildheart.
Bard: College of Eloquence
This was a tough one because I think most bard classes are pretty popular, but I decided to go with College of Eloquence from Tasha's here. I like how this is the bard that really triples down on CHA skills and actually talking, versus Lore bards who are more wizard-y skill monkeys, and Valor bards who are more martial. However, I could easily see the Swords bard getting added as well.
Cleric: Forge Domain
I honestly just think the Forge domain is one of the more iconic of the non-PHB clerics. I mean the dwarf forge domain cleric is almost its own fantasy archetype.
Druid: Circle of Shepard
I generally like the individual flavor of all of the druid subclasses, but if I wanted to cover my bases I would like to see Moon for wildshape, Land for general casting, and Shepard for summoning. Most of the other subclasses get into interesting, but very specific themes/playstyles so I would like to see Shepard first.
Fighter: Arcane Archer
For fighter I was fairly split between Arcane Archer and Cavalier as the two more iconic archetypes. I decided to go with Arcane Archer, mostly because I don't know how often we'll get mounts which would limit the Cavalier fantasy in my opinion.
Monk: Kensei
Not much to add here, I just think having one option of a weapon wielding monk would be pretty cool.
Paladin: Oath of Redemption
Paladin was a bit difficult seeing how the current Oath system is already a little wonky, but I think Redemption would be nice to have (assuming vengeance will be included since its technically in the PHB). You would really have to work on the Oath system as they're supposed to be some of the less aggressive subclasses, but it could be interesting.
Ranger: Gloomstalker
Easily one of the most popular (and generally most effective) ranger achetypes available. Larian would still have there adjustments since the base Ranger elements need some work, but this one was pretty straight forward to me.
Rogue: Swashbuckler
Swashbuckler seems to be one of the more popular rogue subclasses, and it also encourages the rogue to lean into the CHA skills and try to RP as more charming vs. just sneaky.
Sorcerer: Divine Soul
Honestly, I think almost any of the official sorcerer's would make a good addition and had a hard time choosing between Shadow, Storm, and Divine Soul from Xanathar's. I went with Divine Soul partially because I think an additional healing caster would be nice to have.
Warlock: Celestial
Okay, let's address the elephant in the room. Obliviously Hexblade is one of (if not the) most popular subclass in the existence and thematically could fit Wyll fairly well. However, I think most would agree that the quintessential Hexblade ability is Hex Warrior (weapon attacks with CHA modifiers), and I'm of the mind that that should be a Pact of the Blade feature instead (similar to the new playtest version). Thematically, I generally see Hex Blades played as some entity is granting power through the weapon instead of the weapon itself being the entity (which better aligns with the pact boon concept). Also that would fit Wyll's situation much better as he could keep his current pact. With that being said, I think Celestial would bring a good balance of options for warlock patrons overall.
Wizard: Bladesinger
Surprisingly there are only 3 non-PHB official Wizard traditions. Out of those 3 Bladesinger is easily the most unique playstyle wise. I personally think its a bit too far from the traditional wizard for my taste, but I think its the easy choice here based on popularity and diversity.
I'd love to hear what everyone thinks/would like to see added subclass-wise.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2023
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To be clear, this is not me thinking all or even any of the above subclasses will be added. This is more of an informed wishlist.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2023
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Great selection. Would be fun to have those options.
If we’re making wishes tho, I’d replace the Divine Soul with Aberrant Mind. Despite being powerful, it would also fit very well from RP perspective.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Firsly, +1 for the formatting. It makes the post so much easier to read. I've been thinking of which non-PHB subclasses could get added. For the purposes of this discussion I'm going to try to list 1 subclass for each PHB class based on likelihood (speculative of course) and my personal preference. I'm also going to try to skew toward more popular/established subclasses so I would be looking at more Xanathar's and Sword Coast Adventure Guide than Tasha's or Fizban's. By and large, I think this is not a game I'd say I'm particularly interested in. But if I had to play it, or design it, I'd have gravited toward slightly different criteria. Regarding standardness, I feel that Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything (TCOE) and Xanathar's Guide To Everythin (XGTE) are much more "the standard expansions" than the Sword Coast Adventurers' Guide (SCAG). Regarding likelihood, I think everybody's guess is as good as a shot in the dark. But I'd like to consider the factor of "amount of work necessary to add this Subclass to the game". If a Subclass has purely numerical-mechanical abilities (like the Eloquence Bard), then it feels pretty easy to implement. If a Subclass requires additional visual effects (like the Beast Barbarian or the Wildfire Druid), then it requires a bit more work. Visual assets (typically, animation) need to be created. I'm assuming modders will add all the Subclasses and Classes (and do so way before a potential, putative Larian expansion), and I'm assuming modders can more easily add the numerics and mechanics. So I'd rather have Larian provide the visual assets. Regarding the story-fit of the Subclasses, I think the 3 psionic-flavoured Subclasses are a must-mention. For these Subclasses, one could imagine the characters developing these special/aberrant/psionic abilities as a result of the implanted tadpole. Those are - Aberrant Mind Sorcerer,
- Soulknife Rogue,
- Psi Warrior Fighter.
Finally, I would consider how well, or poorly, Subclasses would work with the existing UI or game mechanics. The Shepherd Druid, just like the Necromancer Wizard, are geared for a summoner gameplay. Much as I love the idea of a Shepherd Druid, I don't think that playing a summoner will be particularly enjoyable and practical, with Larian's chain control scheme for the party. Although, of course, one may argue that the classicness and standardness of this gameplay style in RPGs is a reason to revise the party control scheme, instead of calling for not implementing this gameplay style (much in the way that the poorness of the party control scheme is not good reason to advocate against a party of 6, but instead large demand for party of 6 is a reason to revise the party control scheme).
Last edited by Drath Malorn; 25/06/23 03:25 AM. Reason: typos
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2023
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Regarding standardness, I feel that Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything (TCOE) and Xanathar's Guide To Everythin (XGTE) are much more "the standard expansions" than the Sword Coast Adventurers' Guide (SCAG). Fair point, I think I mostly meant prioritizing older ("established") source books that are less debated in my personal circles. I.E. some of the power creep in Tasha's is still discussed with some DMs banning Twilight & Peace domains completely. But you're probably right that people are likely more familiar with those compared to SCAG. Turns out the only SCAG subclass I ended up picking was Swashbuckler anyways  I do like your idea with psionic-flavored subclasses, and I honestly hope they lean into that more with the Great Old One warlock as well. As for accounting for game mechanics, that was in the back of my head a bit, but not top of mind for this particular post.
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member
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member
Joined: Sep 2017
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Regarding the story-fit of the Subclasses, I think the 3 psionic-flavoured Subclasses are a must-mention. For these Subclasses, one could imagine the characters developing these special/aberrant/psionic abilities as a result of the implanted tadpole. Those are - Aberrant Mind Sorcerer,
- Soulknife Rogue,
- Psi Warrior Fighter.
One of the Aberrant Mind sorcerer origins is literally: You were implanted with a mind flayer tadpole, but the ceremorphosis never completed. And now its psionic power is yours. When you use it, your flesh shines with a strange mucus. I would be utterly and completely shocked if Larian was like "Nah, not gonna cook, just sweep all these preexisting ingredients onto the floor and ignore them." My assumption would be that you either choose Aberrant Mind sorcerer at the start and just start as a somewhat generic sorcerer until after the opening sequence, or they'll pull from the Aberrant Mind subclass as you develop tadpole powers as a sorcerer. Either way, I have a really, really hard time believing Larian would ignore the low hanging fruit this represents, lol.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jun 2023
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As we inch closer to launch, I've been thinking of which non-PHB subclasses could get added. For the purposes of this discussion I'm going to try to list 1 subclass for each PHB class based on likelihood (speculative of course) and my personal preference. I'm also going to try to skew toward more popular/established subclasses so I would be looking at more Xanathar's and Sword Coast Adventure Guide than Tasha's or Fizban's. Barbarian: Storm HeraldMy first thought for Barbarian was Path of the Beast, but I think that thematically plays close to Totem/Wildheart, so I decided to go with Storm Herald which would have a completely different feel from both Berserker and Wildheart. Bard: College of EloquenceThis was a tough one because I think most bard classes are pretty popular, but I decided to go with College of Eloquence from Tasha's here. I like how this is the bard that really triples down on CHA skills and actually talking, versus Lore bards who are more wizard-y skill monkeys, and Valor bards who are more martial. However, I could easily see the Swords bard getting added as well. Cleric: Forge DomainI honestly just think the Forge domain is one of the more iconic of the non-PHB clerics. I mean the dwarf forge domain cleric is almost its own fantasy archetype. Druid: Circle of ShepardI generally like the individual flavor of all of the druid subclasses, but if I wanted to cover my bases I would like to see Moon for wildshape, Land for general casting, and Shepard for summoning. Most of the other subclasses get into interesting, but very specific themes/playstyles so I would like to see Shepard first. Besides I am now a student and I prefer to use this source https://edubirdie.com/essay-writers-for-hire for my studies, because essay writers for hire seems to me a brilliant idea from all points of view, these guys are really good at their job and I am very glad that I have this possibility, it saves me a lot of time that I can then spend on games. Fighter: Arcane ArcherFor fighter I was fairly split between Arcane Archer and Cavalier as the two more iconic archetypes. I decided to go with Arcane Archer, mostly because I don't know how often we'll get mounts which would limit the Cavalier fantasy in my opinion. Monk: KenseiNot much to add here, I just think having one option of a weapon wielding monk would be pretty cool. Paladin: Oath of RedemptionPaladin was a bit difficult seeing how the current Oath system is already a little wonky, but I think Redemption would be nice to have (assuming vengeance will be included since its technically in the PHB). You would really have to work on the Oath system as they're supposed to be some of the less aggressive subclasses, but it could be interesting. Ranger: GloomstalkerEasily one of the most popular (and generally most effective) ranger achetypes available. Larian would still have there adjustments since the base Ranger elements need some work, but this one was pretty straight forward to me. Rogue: SwashbucklerSwashbuckler seems to be one of the more popular rogue subclasses, and it also encourages the rogue to lean into the CHA skills and try to RP as more charming vs. just sneaky. Sorcerer: Divine SoulHonestly, I think almost any of the official sorcerer's would make a good addition and had a hard time choosing between Shadow, Storm, and Divine Soul from Xanathar's. I went with Divine Soul partially because I think an additional healing caster would be nice to have. Warlock: CelestialOkay, let's address the elephant in the room. Obliviously Hexblade is one of (if not the) most popular subclass in the existence and thematically could fit Wyll fairly well. However, I think most would agree that the quintessential Hexblade ability is Hex Warrior (weapon attacks with CHA modifiers), and I'm of the mind that that should be a Pact of the Blade feature instead (similar to the new playtest version). Thematically, I generally see Hex Blades played as some entity is granting power through the weapon instead of the weapon itself being the entity (which better aligns with the pact boon concept). Also that would fit Wyll's situation much better as he could keep his current pact. With that being said, I think Celestial would bring a good balance of options for warlock patrons overall. Wizard: BladesingerSurprisingly there are only 3 non-PHB official Wizard traditions. Out of those 3 Bladesinger is easily the most unique playstyle wise. I personally think its a bit too far from the traditional wizard for my taste, but I think its the easy choice here based on popularity and diversity. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks/would like to see added subclass-wise. This is interesting to know, they all seem interesting to me...
Last edited by maximparkhill; 27/06/23 03:07 PM.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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I would say Hexblade is sought after because of :
1) Medium armor prof, and martial weapon prof. Good to have, if you don't plan to multiclass. If you're going paladin/hexblade, then you don't really care of course.
2) Hex Warrior. But this is not the tip of the spear. This could probably be incorporated into bladelock. If however you are going two handed weapon and heavy armor route, then you still need 15 strength so that heavy armor does not slow you down.
3) Hexblade's Curse. This is why everyone wants it. A paladin/hexblade can double smite, with divine and eldritch smite at the same time. With Hexblade's curse, you can crit on a 19 as well as 20 for the cursed target. If you add Elven accuracy feat(on advantage roll 3 dice instead of 2), you have about 24% chance to crit on average.
4) Hexblade with Paladin can hit like a truck. Unfortunetely there is no middle ground yet. Other Subclasses of Warlock do not offer melee capability(or at least something that doesn't eat Eldritch Blast's dust by level 6), and even Paladin/Fiend Warlock, leaves things wanting. Hexblade was added because Wizards recognized that melee Warlocks just don't work as they should without it.
Also, if i may add, It's not for Wyll. Wyll is a fiend Warlock because he made a pact with a Fiend. That does not mean that Larian can't change the backstory to make him a Hexblade, but as he is now, he is a Fiend Warlock. If Hexblade is added, it will be as an option for us, because it's extremely popular, and because the melee lock lags behind without it. They could come up with another solution of course, maybe they will tell us more at the next PFH.
Since Hexblade is in Xanathar's book, we can't know if it's gonna make it. Maybe because of popularity, it's by far the 1st, but still, there is no guarantee.
For other subclasses, i would like to see the Wild Magic Barbarian, something other than Twilight Cleric(because it makes every other War Cleric obsolete), the Shadow Magic Sorcerer, or the Aberrant Mind Sorcerer, would fit thematically i think, the Conquest Paladin, the Bladesinger Wizard, and the Sword Bard.
Last edited by Krom; 26/06/23 02:38 PM.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2023
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For this, I was thinking more about single classes, but yes Hexadin is really powerful.
You can actually get the proficiency with almost all weapons through blade pact with any patron, but the medium armor prof is Hexblade only.
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