Yeah, I now Paladin's don't have alignment restrictions now, but none of the starting paladin subclasses right now feel really appropriate for an evil character. Consider that you can be a Lolthsworn or Githyanki paladin, with dialogue options implying faithfulness to Lolth/Vlaakith...how does that even work from a roleplay perspective? Ah yes, paladin of Lolth, defender of the innocent...?
Even Vengence doesn't seem like a perfect fit unless Larian really reflavours it.
Yeah, I now Paladin's don't have alignment restrictions now, but none of the starting paladin subclasses right now feel really appropriate for an evil character. Consider that you can be a Lolthsworn or Githyanki paladin, with dialogue options implying faithfulness to Lolth/Vlaakith...how does that even work from a roleplay perspective? Ah yes, paladin of Lolth, defender of the innocent...?
Even Vengence doesn't seem like a perfect fit unless Larian really reflavours it.
Im hopping for some dark armor too. The starting armor almost seems a little jesterish. I hear we can dye, cloths not sure on the armor though.
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
honestly, I'm just hoping at some point for a mod that just changes paladins to be more cleric-like, gives them the cleric tags for dialogue options or something.
I eventually did a Paladin playthrough in Early access, couldnt stand no deity choice though. But thankfully, found a mod that had copied over deity choice from cleric. Furthermore it said Paladin of Tyr, Paladin of Tymora, Paladin of Lolth etc. (depending what deity choice in character creation), in the dialogue choice, instead of cleric of so and so.
So unless Larian come to their senses and add it themselves, it will be modded in pretty quickly after full release Id wager.
Last edited by Odieman; 25/07/2307:04 AM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it." Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
honestly, I'm just hoping at some point for a mod that just changes paladins to be more cleric-like, gives them the cleric tags for dialogue options or something.
I eventually did a Paladin playthrough in Early access, couldnt stand no deity choice though. But thankfully, found a mod that had copied over deity choice from cleric. Furthermore it said Paladin of Tyr, Paladin of Tymora, Paladin of Lolth etc. (depending what deity choice in character creation), in the dialogue choice, instead of cleric of so and so.
So it will be modded in pretty quickly after full release, if Larian dont come to their senses and adds it themselves that is.
At that point you are playing a super homebrewed cleric, not a paladin though.
You should try a war cleric sound like what you are trying to play.
honestly, I'm just hoping at some point for a mod that just changes paladins to be more cleric-like, gives them the cleric tags for dialogue options or something.
I eventually did a Paladin playthrough in Early access, couldnt stand no deity choice though. But thankfully, found a mod that had copied over deity choice from cleric. Furthermore it said Paladin of Tyr, Paladin of Tymora, Paladin of Lolth etc. (depending what deity choice in character creation), in the dialogue choice, instead of cleric of so and so.
So it will be modded in pretty quickly after full release, if Larian dont come to their senses and adds it themselves that is.
At that point you are playing a super homebrewed cleric, not a paladin though.
You should try a war cleric sound like what you are trying to play.
I have played D&D since 2010, and DMed for the past 4, I know what a War Cleric is, and I know what a Paladin is. I have played both actually. War Cleric in Tiamat Campaign up to lvl 16 and Paladin with Oath of the Crown, dedicated to Tyr to lvl 12 in Phandalin/Homebrew/Curse of Strahd/Against the Giants campaign.
You and I have been over this topic plenty already either in this thread or another already N7Greenfire, lets not go down that road again. We fundamentally disagree on this topic is a polite way of saying it .
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
Last edited by Odieman; 25/07/2307:28 AM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it." Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
It was confirmed in last PFH ... We should be able to dye our armor aswell.
What was confirmed?
->
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
We should be able to dye our armor aswell.
I mean ... its written right there. O_o
Thanks Rag,
I do remember, it just wasn't clear if Metal armor would be able to be dyed. Hopefully we get some cool armor with out the need to dye
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
[quote=N7Greenfire][quote=Odieman][quote=Leucrotta]All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
+1
also I agree 100% with your previous post on the other page.
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
Yeah. It gets tiring when I mention I want a paladin with a deity for roleplaying reasons with all the rules lawyers coming in going "Well the PHB says..." It's like I know I am not saying the rules say you need deities, I am saying that I need one to roleplay my paladin and not having my paladin able to refernce thier god or god's rival when it becomes relevant is off putting. If I make a Paladin of Selune I want to be able to bring it up when Shadowheart reveals she is a cleric of Shar
What I find curious,(and this may have been explained) By what Divine authority am I able to heal or for instance 5th level spell Raise Dead, that's a whooper, am I to believe by my Oath.. I receive this kind of power?
Of course you'll say yes... and I just shake my head, and Ive read that a Cleric is like the Paladins big brother, who has much greater power. However she or he needs a Deity to provide said power, Hmm Ill just leave you with some Sheldon Cooper facial expressions lol
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
What I find curious,(and this may have been explained) By what Divine authority am I able to heal or for instance 5th level spell Raise Dead, that's a whooper, am I to believe by my Oath.. I receive this kind of power?
Of course you'll say yes... and I just shake my head, and Ive read that a Cleric is like the Paladins big brother, who has much greater power. However she or he needs a Deity to provide said power, Hmm Ill just leave you with some Sheldon Cooper facial expressions lol
There is this argument I found on reddit.
"Reminder: your paladin does not need to serve a god There’s a common misconception that paladins need to serve gods, this is untrue. A cleric needs to serve a god (or at least something) because a cleric funnels that being’s power through themselves. A paladin’s power is all their own, this is why if they break their oath they don’t just instantly lose their powers and instead become an oath breaker. The idea is that their personality and conviction has become warped and twisted, causing their power to do the same.
Divine does not have to mean god. Nature is divine, gods are divine, paladins are divine. These are three separate versions of divine power, gods are not the only thing that is divine.
So feel free to have your paladin swear an oath to someone who isn’t a god, like themselves or maybe their best friend or whoever they marry or whatever you want. Hell, they could even swear an oath to an inanimate object if they want. All that matters is that the paladin truly believes in and sticks to whatever their oath is."
Last edited by Doomlord; 26/07/2301:00 AM.
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
The quote explicitly said paladins can serve parts of the pantheon in general though. Aka the concept of good.
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
Yeah. It gets tiring when I mention I want a paladin with a deity for roleplaying reasons with all the rules lawyers coming in going "Well the PHB says..." It's like I know I am not saying the rules say you need deities, I am saying that I need one to roleplay my paladin and not having my paladin able to refernce thier god or god's rival when it becomes relevant is off putting. If I make a Paladin of Selune I want to be able to bring it up when Shadowheart reveals she is a cleric of Shar
+1 This! Technically according strictly to the rules as written one doesnt need too, but logically and roleplay wise one does.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it." Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
What I find curious,(and this may have been explained) By what Divine authority am I able to heal or for instance 5th level spell Raise Dead, that's a whooper, am I to believe by my Oath.. I receive this kind of power?
Of course you'll say yes... and I just shake my head, and Ive read that a Cleric is like the Paladins big brother, who has much greater power. However she or he needs a Deity to provide said power, Hmm Ill just leave you with some Sheldon Cooper facial expressions lol
There is this argument, rules are rules its their game, I still think its silly.
"Reminder: your paladin does not need to serve a god There’s a common misconception that paladins need to serve gods, this is untrue. A cleric needs to serve a god (or at least something) because a cleric funnels that being’s power through themselves. A paladin’s power is all their own, this is why if they break their oath they don’t just instantly lose their powers and instead become an oath breaker. The idea is that their personality and conviction has become warped and twisted, causing their power to do the same.
Divine does not have to mean god. Nature is divine, gods are divine, paladins are divine. These are three separate versions of divine power, gods are not the only thing that is divine.
So feel free to have your paladin swear an oath to someone who isn’t a god, like themselves or maybe their best friend or whoever they marry or whatever you want. Hell, they could even swear an oath to an inanimate object if they want. All that matters is that the paladin truly believes in and sticks to whatever their oath is."
Good luck receiving powers from swearing an oath to a stone. Many DMs would not allow it, I can tell you that much. An Oath to your friends, possibly. You would still be sponsored by a deity behind the scenes though.
Also in D&D Forgotten realms, Nature isnt divine itself. Nature is divine through the deities of nature. Its "Turtles all the way" so to speak in d&d Forgotten Realms. No matter what you swear your oath to or for, ultimately your divine powers come from deities, wether your aware of it as a Paladin or not. And again most are sworn either to a deity (oath first, Deity second either directly or opted in/tertiarily). Or to several deities through a principle/cause etc. Some are sworn to multiple like the Triad (Tyr, Ilmater and Torm).
Last edited by Odieman; 25/07/2311:22 PM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it." Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
All I need say is this. 5E SCAG: "In the Forgotten Realms, MOST Paldins, like Clerics, are devoted to a deity". And the same section goes into how deities make devout Warriors into Paladins.
The quote from Ed Greenwood I posted on the last page is pretty clear cut in regards to this. People need to differentiate between rules of a game system and the actual lore of the settings in which that game system is used.
EDIT Added: +1 I agree. Read that post and actually saved contents locally for safekeeping in case I need to quote it :P. He created the Forgotten Realms setting, so as long as its in that setting, its clear cut absolutely. EDIT END:
If you take out lore (whatever setting your playing), the rules have no meaning, no substance, and no purpose Id argue, nor does the world your playing in nor your character. The two are wed and intertwined.
Last edited by Odieman; 25/07/2311:38 PM.
"They say he who smelt it dealt it." Sooo technically... this burnt corpse is your fault officer."
What I find curious,(and this may have been explained) By what Divine authority am I able to heal or for instance 5th level spell Raise Dead, that's a whooper, am I to believe by my Oath.. I receive this kind of power?
Of course you'll say yes... and I just shake my head, and Ive read that a Cleric is like the Paladins big brother, who has much greater power. However she or he needs a Deity to provide said power, Hmm Ill just leave you with some Sheldon Cooper facial expressions lol
There is this argument, rules are rules its their game, I still think its silly.
"Reminder: your paladin does not need to serve a god There’s a common misconception that paladins need to serve gods, this is untrue. A cleric needs to serve a god (or at least something) because a cleric funnels that being’s power through themselves. A paladin’s power is all their own, this is why if they break their oath they don’t just instantly lose their powers and instead become an oath breaker. The idea is that their personality and conviction has become warped and twisted, causing their power to do the same.
Divine does not have to mean god. Nature is divine, gods are divine, paladins are divine. These are three separate versions of divine power, gods are not the only thing that is divine.
So feel free to have your paladin swear an oath to someone who isn’t a god, like themselves or maybe their best friend or whoever they marry or whatever you want. Hell, they could even swear an oath to an inanimate object if they want. All that matters is that the paladin truly believes in and sticks to whatever their oath is."
Good luck receiving powers from swearing an oath to a stone. Many DMs would not allow it, I can tell you that much. An Oath to your friends, possibly. You would still be sponsored by a deity behind the scenes though.
Also in D&D Forgotten realms, Nature isnt divine itself. Nature is divine through the deities of nature. Its "Turtles all the way" so to speak in d&d Forgotten Realms. No matter what you swear your oath to or for, ultimately your divine powers come from deities, wether your aware of it as a Paladin or not. And again most are sworn either to a deity (oath first, Deity second either directly or opted in/tertiarily). Or to several deities through a principle/cause etc. Some are sword to multiple like the Triad (Tyr, Ilmater and Torm).
What I found curious about the quote I posted is it say " Paladins" are divine like God... Yea, I subscribe personally that Paladins derive their powers from a diety, they make a Oath to said Deity to up hold that deities standards/rules/Code of ethics. If they fail in said action, they lose their God given powers.
Last edited by Doomlord; 25/07/2311:20 PM.
DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off... Astragarl Hornwood, Mage of Elembar - Year of the Tusk
Ed Greenwood put his two cents in, although honestly I don't think he should have had to, considering how well established even the basics mechanics of divine magic are in the Realms. That should be good enough for anyone, though I guess not Larian.
Anyways, unless it's been renegotiated, one of the supposed aspects of his (strange) contract with WoTC is that anything he says is canon, is canon unless WoTC explicitly says otherwise.
Note that he's very careful with his phrasing in that excerpt to not contradict the SCAG, but the message is clear-you need a divine patron(ess) for divine magic.
Again, I'm just hoping for some modders to bring back some of the flavor to the class, because this is probably the biggest disappointment of EA for me.
.
