Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Let's talk about The Adversary.

For those who don't know The Adversary is an Illithid legend, and something the Illithids fear more than anything even though as far as we know it has never actually happened in D&D. The Adversary is the idea that one day a mind-flayer will retain the full memories and personality of the host the tadpole transformed and that this mind-flayer will bring about the end of the Illithids. It is something that the Illithids fear so much that they kill any mind-flayer who shows to have inherited any behavior from the host such as a nervous tick or habit which has been known to happen every now and then.

Now what I wonder is what will happen in the game if we go down the path of embracing the powers offered by the tadpole? We know the artifact from Shadowheart prevents ceremorphosis from advancing and completing but it also doesn't kill the tadpole so at some point I imagine that we will have to make a choice between getting rid of the tadpole or undergoing ceremorphosis but what then? Is that going to be just a game over screen? Do we get to continue playing as a mind-flayer or ulitharid depending on which we turn into? How would that even work since Illithids are not really playable in D&D outside of homebrew to my knowledge? Typically mind-flayers are dominated by an elder brain but is there even any nearby colony our character could be absorbed into should ceremorphosis complete?

This brings me to the next possibility, could our character become The Adversary? To the best of my knowledge there has never actually been an Adversary in D&D, it is more of an Illithid boogieman story than anything else. But in BG3 we could realistically play as a good aligned character that leans maybe a bit too much into the powers offered by the tadpole to influence the minds of the enemies we encounter and then bam, when you least expect it ceremorphosis completes(assuming that's something the game allows to happen). Could our player character actually become The Adversary?

Just a quick point in the pfh the tadpole jaheera was holding exploded thanks to the artifact, wonder if tav could hold it to his head?

That seems like it would be way too easy and simple of a solution so I doubt the game will actually allow that to happen or that that will be the solution.

Do we?
As far as i know, even if Shadowheart is not in our party and she still have the Artefact (meaning we dont), nothing is happening.

I mean, as far as i know, all the Artefact do, is blocking out the Absolute. O_o

Where did you get this?

Since we have seen our party runing around City of Baldur's Gate ... and we were told by Larian themselves that city is final part of the game ...

I imagine that if such situation indeed come, it will be Game Over no matter wich option we pick.

Isnt Omeluum one?
Illithid with his own mind, capable of resisting the Elder Brain?

I for what is it worth, dont believe even for a second, that game would allow that to happen.
Especialy not us continue any play as Illithid.

As far as i know, it was confirmed (or spoiled, depends on point of view) by Swen himself back in early days of development, that Mind Flayers are NOT true antagonists of this game, more like just a tool in hands of true BBEG.
So i think any conspiracies that go futher than that are false.
Sory.

One of Larian's older development updates they talk about how they account for player choice in regards to things that MUST happen for the purposes of not breaking the story and they talked about Shadowheart's artifact and how no matter what the player does that artifact always has to end up in the hands of the player.

And in regards to Omeluum no, there are mind-flayers that manage to break free of the influence of their elder brains but that is not the same thing as retaining the memories and behavior of the host. The host that the tadpole transformed is gone.

As for whether ceremorphosis can complete and so on we don't know but in the most recent stream they did say we can go far, really far, down the path of accepting power from the tadpole. What that actually means and precisely how far that is exactly we can only speculate.

I am more curious about the role the Dead 3 play in all this. Are they using the Illithids or are the Illithids using the quasi gods (barely even a god, can be killed). It seems that the Dead 3 have finally learned from their many failings that most people would not want to worship the Gods of Tyranny, Murder and Death, but a new God who accepts everyone regardless of race, gives special powers that even Clerics of other gods can't do? Now that sounds like a more palatable choice of God. I imagine that only the Chosen 3, Etheric, Gortash and Orin know the truth behind 'the Absolute' and everyone else has been duped. Where and how they came up with such an audacious and cunning plan is a mystery.

Yes ...
But the same apply if its only shielding us from the influence ... we have to end up with the artefact, bcs without it, the Absolute would control us completely.

No control > no character > game over.

Well, i can be wrong ...
But i dare to presume it just go in line with what is happening in Early Acess ... when you abuse your tadpole powers too much, your [ILLITHID] dialogue choice changes to [TRUE SOUL] tag ...

Personaly i believe its the same stuff ... the more power you accept, the more you will be leaning towards the Absolute ... wich will have consequences at the very end of game (and maybe some on way).

What about becoming an elder brain?

For that the main character would have to transform into an ulitharid, then go live in a mind-flayer colony for a bit and then could decide to take half the colony and go set up a new colony elsewhere with the ulitharid becoming a new elder brain. Technically not impossible or even insanely unlikely should our character undergo ceremorphosis(1-4% chance of turning into an ulitharid) but I really don't think the game will go there. That would just completely derail the story. Even if we are allowed to play as a mind flayer/ulitharid I don't think the game will go down the path to becoming an elder brain.

I don't have any strong ideas of how this might play out to be honest but we'll probably have to deal with them in some way or another over the course of the game and there are 175+ hours of cutscenes to account for player choices and permutations. I am intrigued in what we can do down the evil path...we'd probably have to defeat them still but could we usurp and replace them in some capacity...even if don't necessarily get their powers maybe we can take control of their minions, etc. I also hope they can do something special with the good path because I am tired of standard run of the mill stories where you're a one dimensional do-gooder who unites a bunch of groups for a final showdown and yay you win. That horse has well and truly been beaten to death.