Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Characters

I am sure I will receive a ton of flak by Larian fanboys for this and that's fine, I haven't played the full game only early access but I am hoping the characters actually have some degree of character development.

As it stands, I hate all of them they are all full of themselves to a narcissistic degree, some of them are outright the most unrelatable abrasive lunatics I have ever had the misfortune of encountering, other than her strength and her saving you (more for herself than you) Lae' Zel is utterly unlikeable.

She fights you on everything, is never satisfied and even when you do something that pleases her she tells you in the most condescending, arrogant, annoying way possible, the only way I know she liked my action is because it says "approves" in the top left hand corner, otherwise half the time I would have guessed I screwed up.

All of the characters are hyper defensive and you aren't allowed to even ask questions of the people that are laying close enough to you to kill you in your sleep, lest they start insulting you and becoming verbally abusive.

All of the women save Karlach are utter bitches who seem like they are actively putting in effort to make sure you never use them with how much they berate and verbally abuse you, and all of the men save Halsin are clowns I don't take seriously at all.

I have played table top many times, I have played all of the previous D&D games, I don't remember hating everyone I partied with.

I thoroughly enjoyed romancing Viconia from BG I-II, even evil you saw a lot of character development with her, could even turn her around to being a good guy, if you played your cards right.

I enjoyed all of the characters from DOS 1 like Madora and Bairdotr, and I don't know if there was a character from DOS 2 I didn't like, they were all fascinating, my favorites being Lohse and Ifan.

I am sure I am being theatrical and there will be plenty of development for these characters and they will grow, but if they don't I hope I can make a build that can solo the game so I never have to use them, because they are annoying and abusive.

Before anyone would say "the characters are complex you can't just say the right things and they like you."

No they aren't complex at all, I can't get anything out of Minthara, Lae' Zel or Shadowheart but utter bitch no matter how high my approval is, they always talk to me like I am garbage or their slave

The males I can't get anything but jokes and deflections, I barely know who they really are because they don't want me to, since all of the females are probably evil aligned I guess I get it, but there isn't a soul on earth that likes being treated like shit in a friendship or relationship so they can go die by themselves for all I care.

This isn't a massive complaint, I love the game, I love the story so far, and Larian is one of my top rpg companies, I love how you can choose if you want to go evil or good, and it really has serious consequences, I have a Lolth Drow and Seldarine Drow just to play the comparisons, but I am not a masochist, I don't enjoy constantly being condescended to even when I do the right thing.

All of the characters have an ego so loud I want to throw up talking to them, with as I said the exception of Karlach, and Halsin, who Ironically I cannot currently get to know well.

To be clear, anyone who wants to reply with things like "you are stupid you don't know what you are talking about."

Yeah I hope so, I am praying so, please come correct me, please come tell me how dumb I am, and that I am wrong, I desperately want to be.

I don't want the reality of my playthrough to be alone because all of the characters are the rudest most narcissistic scumbags on earth, I am not saying they have to love everyone, I am not saying they have to love me, I would settle for things like "good job" pretty neutral and an intelligent way of handling things if you are talking to someone you need to be amicable with as they are the only one making sure you aren't run through in a fight.


If all they have for me is to tell me "You did it but you could have done better and also you are stupid for not doing better!" when I even go to the lengths of looking up the best options to avoid screwing up.

Well then they can journey alone or stay at camp, I don't bend over backwards and jump through hoops like a dog to please my closest friends or family, and they don't treat me like shit for helping them, I am certainly not even going to use fictional characters in a video game that do.

Fair points and all but to assuage your concerns:

We have only seen the first major chunk of the first act. Larian has said that Act 1 still has 33% more content on release relative to EA, and that the bigger version of Act 1 is only 25% of the game. Characters tend to go through arcs, where they are supposed to end up fundamentally different at the end of the journey than at the start. While not all stories follow this rule, most do. Consider the personalities of some other companions at the first part of the first quarter of their story:

-Sebille puts a needle to your neck and threatens you, refusing to cooperate unless you give her what she wants.
-Ifan, Fane, and Lohse are constantly withholding information from you and deflecting.

I don’t want to spoil anything, but the final version of Act 1 may have Wyll making a great sacrifice to save someone he doesn’t even know. Or Shadowheart reevaluating her life upon receiving mentions of her Origins. Who knows. But if you read the Epic of Gilgamesh only to the first part of the first quarter, it would be the story of a selfish and brutal king who cared for nothing. Or if you read only the first part of the Fellowship of the Ring, you’d think Sam a selfish coward too afraid to leave his home.

Without knowing how you've done your play-throughs it's hard to say much of anything. I haven't done an evil play-through so I've only ever killed Minthara. I have been able to soften Shadowheart quite a bit but it did take work. I have seen enough from her that I can say she definitely does have depths to her character that have not been revealed yet, including hints as to her childhood. Meanwhile, as has been said, we've only seen at most a quarter of the game and that quarter is only a first draft. Not to say you're wrong or deny your experience, but it's not enough to make a final judgment about any character. We'll just have to see how things work out.

Personally I like them all, other than Astarion. He rubs me the wrong way...Never really played wyll but once and thought he was pretty weak, so he guards the camp.

As for the personalities this has been said sense EA went live,

Lae'zel, She is a lawful evil Githyanki, She is totally militaristic and frankly I feel her personality in on point, full of herself and confident, she don't dick around. I like that.

Shadowheart, I think she's a big sweetheart, I mean yea she can get fiery , with that said I like a woman with a backbone, and some fire to boot.

Gale, yea It could be worse, at least he is not Astarion lol

Karlach, Ive only killed her and sided with her a few times as well. Will see what I think when the game goes live.

To sum it up, its not a group of my best friends im on an adventure with, its a group of people thrown together by chance and fate and I can choose, AGENCY, greatest or one of the greatest gift AO gave us . Its our story our choice. May you fare well.

Well, you are pointing to the elephant in the room, for me at least. To me it's very simple; in terms of this being a fantasy game set in a DnD scenario, they are just not very engaging and do often not add to the immersion, often they feel misplaced, most of them feel like they belong in another type of game or would just be more suited as NPC's.

Btw: the "approves" / "disapproves" is connected to the characters backgrounds [edit: there might be more to it with the companions actually, than just the standard background reactions - probably also some individual reactions on top of the background ones], just like your main character can actually approve and dissaprove of stuff you do (even though you ARE that character and might not agree with your own character (this is where it gets a bit schizophrenic)). You can get a very good analysis of the backgrounds here, but a fair warning; it is filled with spoilers regarding EA content:

https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/backgrounds

Let me try to walk through them in terms of how I see their litterary and narrative quality. This will be a little hard to do without making spoilers, but I will try.

Lae'zel: Lae'zel is a militaristic character, with the "soldier" background and of the Githyanki race. As such she fits the role perfectly, she is one-track minded, desperately trying to save her planet from the mindflayers and not caring too much about anything or anyone else. But she is also utterly boring and completely unengaging - I find her dull and without individual character, you could more or less just describe the Githyanki race, and you would have a perfect description of Lae'zel. And this is how the Githyanki society is, so what can you do? She fits the bill, but the bill is boring as hell. To me she would be more suited to be an NPC you encountered and not a companion. As such I would give her 0/5 as a companion, but 4/5 as a stereotypical NPC Githyanki.

Gale: Gale is like that dude you knew in college, that kind of annoying know-it-all type ("sage" background), but all in all a kind and open dude - probably smoked some weed. He studied history and later on he became a custodian in the museum down town. Nice enough fellow. Married, with 2 kids. But in the game they tell us that he is supposed to be this great big wizard prodigy, but it is just so extremely hard to buy that story, to me he's Gale from College. Sure Gale has a secret that will blow you away (literaly), but that doesn't change his character as such. Compared to other great wizards of fantasy settings Gale is by far the most unengaging and un-wizardly I have ever seen. They could have made this quirky Forest Gnome character with a long green beard and a speech impediment that would ramble on for hours about all sorts of arcane stuff. They could have made someone like Durance, from Pillars of Eternity, a completely crazy dude that looked and acted the part of a wizard prodigy (he was actually a cleric, but that's beside the point). But no... no.... Larian made Gale. Gale from College. 2 kids. Works at the museum. Gale as a companion: 0/5. Gale as a custodian in a museum in Baldur's Gate (the city) 3/5. Gale as a custodian in Boston: 5/5.

Astarion: Astarion is funny. He really is. The "noble" background makes him a snob, but in a funny way. That makes him likeable and annoying at the same time. He is a wellwritten character, the writing on him is better than Lae'zel and Gale at least. But is he an interesting companion? Wouldn't he be a FAR more interesting adversary? Yes, yes he would, he would be the PERFECT bad guy, someone with a history and a meaning to why he became the bad guy, perhaps a perfect fit for the Dark Urge. I would love to square off against him in a boss fight and then of course spare his life in the last moment and see him redeem himself. Astarion is someone that, if you knew what he was, you would never fucking ever have staying in your camp, if it wasn't a game and the worst that could happen was that you had to reload. Astarion as a companion: 0/5. Astarion as an adversery (with a twist) 5/5.

Wyll: I liked Wyll's story, the guy who wanted to be a hero so bad that he made a deal with a devil (background "folk hero"). That's a great story. It is also quite possible more or less the story of all Warlocks, except the half of them that made a deal with a devil to do evil instead of good (probably background "criminal"), but that is more or less the same story with a different context. So the story is great, but it is also completely the run-of-the-mill story for the warlock class as such, so, as with Lae'zel, Wyll's story is not really individual, and there is not really a lot of character depth to it. To be fair, they have since changed Wyll's story completely, even hired a new voice actor, so I don't know how it's going to be in full game, but I guess there is still going to be the part with the deal with a devil. Wyll as a companion 2/5.

Shadowheart: The more I think about Shadowheart, the more confused I get. Let's start with her background; "Urchin", which is related to a rough childhood. Dictionary says: "a mischievous and often poor and raggedly clothed youngster (street urchins)". Shadowheart had a though and rough childhood, her heart became dark, she began cutting herself and dyed her hair black and started listening to the Cure and Goth music. She cried in the darkness but no one listened. Then she found Shar, the Goddess of Darkness, Shar listened. And all of a sudden the poor girl found herself on a dark path doing the bidding of an evil Goddess. Shadowhearts story appeals to me. It is a pretty good story, for an adventure game made by DON'T NOD (Life is Strange etc.) - but for DnD? I don't know... It feels like she is a character from another game forced into the DnD universe, not a bad character, but just somehow not a DnD character. She almost has too much depth, definitely compared to the 4 others. Imagine her and Minsc having a conversation. It just seems she is from a completely other world than him, somehow forced into the wrong game. I like Shadowheart, but I don't know if I like her for BG3. Shadowheart as a companion: 1/5. Shadowheart as a character in the next DON'T NOD game: 4/5.

Karlach: To be fair, we don't know very much about Karlach. Yet, I feel somehow that I know enough already. I know enough to know, that I don't need to know more. We don't know her background yet, but it doesn't matter. We know that Karlach is bad-ass, that she is on fire! Literaly. She escaped from Hell, she is a Tiefling, and she has one twisted horn and she is Heavy Metal incarnate. Wow! She is gonna kick some ass, right!? Wrong. She is going to date you. Yes. You will be taking her out to a restaurant in Baldur's Gate as shown in PFH, in a cringeworthy scene that looked like something taken out of the Sims 4 (if they had Tieflings in Sims 4). Matching the Karlach we saw in that scene with the Karlach mentioned above leads us to a mindsplitting cognitive dissonance. The illusion of her character has broken apart even before she has been fully introduced to us in game. Karlach as a companion: 0/5. Karlach as a quirky funny devilish character in the Sims 4: 4/5.

Halsin: Halsin is the only character so far that I can actually see in my party. He is a wood elf druid, we don't know his background. He is wise and powerful and might have a unique wild shape. He fit's the DnD scenario, he looks cool, he feels cool, he is the "good" hero you can trust. Apparently. Does he have a dark secret? Of course he does, this is Larian. We just don't know it yet. He probably made a pact with a God or a devil. I mean: they all did, so why not Halsin? Halsin as a companion: 5/5. (Yes, that's right, we don't mention the bear sex scene at all, that shit didn't happen, not in my playthrough!)

Minthara: As I played "Good" in EA, I only ever got to kill Minthara, so I don't know too much about how she would be as a companion. But she definitely seems to fit the DnD scenario and she seems to have a pretty nuanced personality. Minthara as an adversary: 5/5.

Jaheira & Minsc: We know both of them from BG1 and 2, and people liked them in those games, so they seem like Larian's "safe bets". Unless Larian changed them a lot, sure, they would make good solid companions with reasonably good backstories and definitely fitting the DnD bill. Jaheira & Minsc as companions: 5/5.

So yeah, like you I don't feel a great URGE to play with most of the companions we have seen so far. But later on in the game I hope for more interesting ones. I find it a shame that they have spent so much energy on characters that I find so utterly unengaging, but that's just my opinion, a lot of people seem to disagree, and that is part of what is going to make BG3 a great game, that we can all find something that appeals to us (hopefully).

You have many truth in your words/accusations about the characters, and I think, most for "unsatisfied players" one of the biggest problem in the game is the companions and their non diverse, their personality ....etc.etc.etc. (the other is the Character creation and the misses and mistakes in there)
As Lyzrl said and I really like them both as well (also liked in the first 2 games), but the others... Let's just say what I saw/get them from E.A. I'm also not so motivated or interested to go deeper in their personal stories or get to know them more...
The only reason why I also have some interest about Halsin and Karlach is the same reason as yours. And in Shadowheart's case the only thing what is interest me is that which of my theory become correct:
either way, the „turns” like this for me is forwardly predictable and boring.
I'm in a stand that to "Wait and see the final result" (and hope that Larian finally hear and accept the players oppinion about this).
But in this state (or if it remains in this way) they are really far from the "Memorable Companions" which the other Forgotten Realms games have plenty. (like: Khelgar or Neeshka from NWN2 or nearly any companion from BG 1-2, in ID 1-2 some of the NPC was more interesting than our current companions, and some point even in Demonstone had more "deeper" and "interesting" characters)

When I first met my companions I was a bit shocked. A bunch of twisted, secretive pity personalities most of them (well all except Lae'zel who is as is being said, very much a githyanki at heart). But as they say, when life gives you lemons you make lemonade. I have gotten used to the situation and when I later found out there would be party member quests, and that this might be a chance to turn their lives around, well, then I have taken up the challenge of getting some great gameplay out of the situation. Even so to the extend of not wanting to look towards hirelings.

Only party member I won't get used to is Astarion. He will never stop being a vampire no matter what. He might be turned into a good aligned vampire if the story takes me in that direction, but a good vampire is perhaps even more pitifull as an evil one, so...

Yeah, while Larian says they allow for a great variety of game play style and content clearly this does not include the traditional good guys stepping forward with pride and no selfish motivations in order to vanquish evil. But already in the introduction I was a captive getting a tadpole in my brain, so yeah, that set the tone. This does not make it a bad game, just different.

A joker though, we still have to see what kind of party members Karlach, Jaheira and Minsc will be, so maybe the story can still turn into a crusade for good vs evil if we so choose. Only time will tell.

I don't know, I find Shadowheart quite pleasant to have around. She was never bitchy to me. maybe, when you ask her too soon about her background, but that was not offputting to me. The only companion, I find objectively annoying, is Astarion. I hate his voice, demeanor, everything. In my later playthroughs, I often killed him (if he managed to take me down) or just leave him (if my rolls succeed and he just showed the knife).
Lae'zel is to me the most straight forward companion: She has a mission - get rid of the tadpole, before it changes her - and she sticks to it. I can get behind it. As for the rest: Githyanki are not nice, theyare a harsh society and she acts accordingly. Wether she will learn to respect Tav later on and changes her attitude remains to be seen - it would be similar to Sten from Dragon Age Origins, who was similar off putting and irritating in the beginning, but can warm up to the Warden based on their actions. He came from a similar strict and unforgiving society as Lae'zel.
As for Gale and Wyll - they are easy enough to keep around. Do good deeds and they are mostly happy.

What I would critize about the companions is, that they are all so very special. Everyone but Lae'zel has more drama and secrets going on than a whole DnD group. I find it a bit over the top tbh.


You mean Astarion?

yes, meant Astarion ty

I agree with some of this but not everything, Lae' Zel is a murder hobo, she isn't just harsh, she goes out of her way to humiliate and murder innocent people and gets mad at me often when I don't, militaristic is often intelligent to achieve goals, but she will actually actively waste your time to be cruel.

When you interrogate Zorru for information on the whereabouts of the Githyanki patrol she becomes furious if you don't take multiple rounds of dialogue to force him to kneel, I have taken both paths several times now, they both take about as long but if she wouldn't argue with me while I was being nice to coax the information from Zorru I could avoid several dialogue steps and get the information far quicker without her input.

Showing me she is so obsessed with cruelty, she actively gets in her own way, costing her time and hindering her mission not accelerating it, this is only one of many examples.

Outside of the ruins at the start of the game on the beach I intimidate the gnome and his group of bandits who want to raid the Nautiloid, afterward she says "it would have been quicker to kill them." no it wouldn't have, fights take forever, it took me two seconds to say some scary words and have them scrambling away, she is too single minded, to the point it is actually hindering her mission.

She also seems to know nothing about her own people, all of the Githyanki, even my character when I played one, knows nothing about this cure she keeps rambling about, this is evident when the patrol calls BS on her and tries to kill her, my character similarly was, like "what cure? I have never heard of it."

which makes me question if she is either lying or mistaken, I thought for sure I would have a Githyanki response saying something like "Ah yes of course the cure, the extremely important cure our whole race knows about because it would be the most important thing for our people not to be turned into our enemy."

Instead the response was "I've never heard of a cure sounds like BS."

As far as the other Characters, Wyll just rambles about how he is the BLADE OF FRONTEIRS! all day, self obsessed and won't tell me who he is talking to through his sending stone, indeed he won't even admit it is a sending stone even though my character knows for a fact it is, I am like "Bro I have Arcana proficiency I know for a fact it is a sending stone I have used them." he always responds "What sending stone? This again? Tis but a rock!"

Gale is actually extremely secretive and basically only tells me "hey by the way if I don't eat powerful artifact weave I could probably kill us all, but also I am not going to explain how, good luck finding me artifacts to eat instead of using for yourself." makes me not even want him I will take the artifacts, I mean I know we are all ticking time bombs with the tadpoles, but he is potentially, literally one, he even gets defensive and hits you with passive aggressive insults if you pry, pry into his secret that could kill you all, yes how selfish of me to want to know that...

But doesn't feel like sharing he could probably kill us all on accident until he is in dire straights and probably will soon if he doesn't eat some weave, that is selfish to an insane degree, he also rambles about how great of a wizard he is all the time, also self obsessed.

Then we have Shadowheart, ah Shadowheart, if she was ordered by her group to assassinate me I would never know, I get Shar is the Lady of secrets but Oh my god, I have no interest in peeling back that onion, she is exhausting, every time I try I am met with a fight and derision, it is just secrets layered on secrets and you ask and she fights, tells you nothing while condescending to you and moves on, the only reason I learn she is a cleric of Shar, AS IF HER ARMOR ISN'T A DEAD GIVE AWAY!

Is that on the bridge before the goblin camp the artifact activates and outs her as way more than she is letting on, and she is pinned between getting kicked out of my party or spilling the beans, so she only talks under duress, but then I ask her about the artifact, and we are back to the secrets and she won't say shit, as if she didn't just learn her lesson three seconds prior, a one trick pony if I have ever seen one.

She is also brutally stuck up, everywhere I go it is always some snarky passive aggressive comment like "Eww why are we in this goblin camp, it is bad enough it's a Selune temple." I respond "Uh, it's cuz it's my quest to kill the goblin leaders, I mean you were there you know." and she basically just quips back with "if you like hanging out in gross places with gross company." which is infuriating, she acts like a spoiled rich kid who is too good for everything which is ironic considering she is an Urchin.

I ignore Astarion, he tries to kill me three seconds into meeting him, I keep him exclusively in camp, He also is self obsessed, and basically just rambles about how amazing he is all day.

Halsin is respectful without knowing you, helpful without knowing you (a stark contrast to Kagha the bitch druid) and generally amicable and easy to get along with, but is barely in your party, literally on his rescue mission and that's it, outside of that dialogue with him is sparse and revolves around the moonrise tower and curing you, not him and getting to know him, Karlach is about the same, it is all about saving her from the "Devil/Tyr followers" (don't know who to believe there, them or her) and the Hell Engine and her leaving for Baldurs gate, getting to know her really isn't an option on the table.

Minthara I have romanced as my Lolth Sworn Drow, she is a murder Hobo to the max and treats you like her thrall, all she carries on about is glorious murder and blood shed for the absolute, etc, she has almost no personality outside of that.

These are my gripes, You can't really get to know these characters, they are all liars except for Lae' Zel who is just a dick, one layer to her personality and that is asshole, and they are all so far up their own asses it actually seems like they all hate you, and are trying their utmost to flee from you, except they were all practically begging to be in your party when you met.

Shadowheart is a great example, when you wake her she says "We should travel together I can't think of better company." I thought aw how sweet, then at camp I ask "what's next for you after this?" she replies "getting as far away from all of you as possible." I reply "Uh I thought you WANTED to travel with us." like didn't you say you can't think of better company? she ends with a "I owe you nothing and can't wait to be rid of you."

My approval at that time was almost maxed with her, every dialogue option was approval, I was trying to romance her that playthrough, and actively pissed off Lae' Zel to do it. She did sleep with me which I guess means she likes me, although that doesn't seem to be an indicator, from what Larian said sex seems to mean nothing and is just having fun not an intimate act, all so S.H. could belittle me anyway.

You are seen as a servant, someone to do their menial tasks for them, you are a meat shield to take a sword blow, you are not a valued companion, they should just hire mercenaries and maids, they have no interest in actually valuing people, that is just my take but I don't see what else I am suppose to get from this, I have made multiple characters now and romanced every companion I could, even when they "like" you, you still aren't shit to them.

To Zerubbabel

I genuinely hope you are right, I do Remember Viconia being bitchy in Baldur's gate at the beginning of your friendship, She had more Character development than most characters I have seen, it was wild that she could actually be like, "you know, you have convinced me that even being a Drow, I don't have to be a sour bitch, I can actually help people."

If they Develop like that I would be very pleased.

If it is any consolation, Larian has said that Wyll was totally rewritten. That's where I am getting my information about Wyll's sacrifice from.

Here's what you can do:
1. Grab Karlach
2. Grab Halsin
2. Grab one temporary companion to ignore (Maybe reworked Wyll? He's quite bland).
3. Eventually acquire Minsc and Jaheira
4. Profit?

You'll need a party to get to Karlach and Halsin, but after that you can say goodbye. Watch their arcs on YouTube, maybe. I'd suggest starting with two Tavs if it weren't for the fact that it will lock you out of every single ! post encounter scene with companions.

At least she doesn't sound like a cheap King's Road hairdresser from the 70s like Astarion. He's supposed to be a noble from Baldur's gate, not a skeevy rent boy.

@Gormak - Lae'zel is all that you said she is, but Dumb Teen goes great lengths to explain much about her. Remember she has not yet graduated from the creche ...

To Silver

Woah What? I can make two Tavs? How?

Basically you open two game clients and join your own multiplayer match.

Yeah, if you only acquire 4 companions total, it's... an option.

Problems: Tavs cannot be removed from the party. ! Scenes now only between Tavs. So, e.g. instead of Gale talking about the hag outcome with you, the two Tavs will now talk among each other (you're essentially playing two multiplayer characters at the same time). The two Tavs also have different affection meters to companions.

Because of this, it might be better to wait slightly longer and grab a mercenary . Larian apparently said, however, there's "1-2 more companions". Also, Minthara is properly recruitable on the evil side. There's hope some of the "1-2" companions are more likeable, but they're also probably later recruits.

As I also mentioned, Wyll has been majorly reworked. He even has a new voice actor. He might be tolerable enough for a while. However, you'll need to smooth out some things with Karlach in that case. If you're lucky, this is an early defining event and it sets him on the good/less obnoxious path.

Since Wyll and Shadowheart were revised, Astarion’s writing is the only one I have a problem with.

IMO, it’s pretty dumb that Astarion always puts a knife to your throat, no matter how many companions you have with you. Unless you are role playing a pacifist, there is really no good reason not to arrack him (in self defense) during either the initial encounter or when he tries to bite you. I don’t mind the writing for Astarion after that, but it’s not surprising that people who are more concerned with role-playing just kill him during one of those two early events.

Well I appreciate all the feedback, all the help and surprisingly no flak, I have heard there is a group of Diehards running around giving hell to anyone with the slightest criticism of the game.