Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Help Tips & Tricks Bard spell list?

Planning on playing a bard (lore) as I want to be a skill monkey and force multiplier.

However browsing the spell list for bards I don't really feel that the bard is a force multiplier (buff/debuff/cc etc). While there are such spells many of them seem to be concentration spells. So potentially only one such spell would be used for each fight.

So what does a bard do in a fight? I thought there would be more options for buffing/debuffing than I could see (at a quick glance mind you).

Bards are a quite versatile class with multiple ways to play them. Obviously you always want to have one of your concentration buffs or debuffs active and grant some bardic inspiration to your allies. Here are a few suggestions what you can do on top of that:
- Get gear that buffs people when you heal them and then cast heals on them.
- Use short duration debuffs like vicious mockery, dissonant whispers, sleep.
- Deal some damage with spells like shatter or weapon attacks. Hand crossbows can be quite good if you have decent dexterity, especially at low levels when you only have a few spell slots.

Faerie Fire gives advantage for your entire party and it's a level one spell that is an AOE. The main advantage of bard is that you can keep casting bardic inspiration every round of combat and cast a spell/cantrip.

Are you used to 3rd edition/Pathfinder? One of the things 5e did was nerf a lot of "force multiplier" type abilities. Bards still have access to some good CC, and Dissident Whispers is a force multiplier since it triggers opportunity attacks by your mates. And you should get to pick spells from any class list at level 10/6 depending on subclass. That's assuming this ability works in BG3.

But obviously, what a bard does in a fight is hit people with a lute.

No surprises in the above comments. Confirms the conclusion I had come to myself. I guess the list of spells just didn't conform to my inner vision of what the essence of a bard is Time to revise my vision (tm).....

Btw, I understand whacking enemies with the lute but why hand crossbows? I see those mentioned a lot. Is it just that it is what is currently considered "cool" or is there a reason to use those instead of a longbow (now that half elf is not the given choice).

cantrip = Vicious Mockery on any powerful character to limit its damage to your party
level 1 = Faerie Fire to make the commander lose his battle against the mind sucker and get yourself a nice sword... after the beach i normally swap it out
level 2 = enhance-ability gives advantage on skill checks

somewhere in the party; Invisibility [for your thief], heals [i like Healing Word best because its a bonus and allows you to attack], Calm Emotions [for the harpie fight], Cloud of Daggers for blocking a path or making them pay [low level fights], Feather Fall is good for two things [getting into the underdark and behind the windmill] & Dissonant Whispers for damage

i like at least 16 char

p.s, hand crossbows = 2 attacks because you can have 1 in each hand

On the lower levels, you will mostly use cantrips or weapon attacks.
This is why I think, despite the massive buff to cutting words (affecting saving throws), valor bards will be the best.

On higher levels, spell slots are more abundant, so you will cast a spell on most of your turns. Dissonant whispers for example is pretty strong. It is not forced movement, so the enemy has to run away, and every character in range gets to make an opportunity attack with their reaction, possibly massively increasing your parties damage per round.

This is however not yet implemented correctly.
Other non concentration spells:
- sleep
- thunderwave
- blindness
- healing word
- mirror image
- shatter
- dispel magic
- glyph of warding!!!!!!
- synaptic static
- mass suggestion
...

What spells will be in the game and in what form, I don't know of course.
You also have the spells you can steal from other spell list. So you can have fireball etc, if you want to

Btw, if you play lore, pick up counterspell with one of your spells at lv 6.
Bards are (after abjuration wizards) the best counterspellers/ dispel magic users, because it is an ability check, so you can add half your proficiency bonus to it

The comment about the lute was a joke (it helps if you've seen the movie). At this time you cannot hit people with a lute in BG3. A fairly major oversight in a game where you can hit people with a salami.

Hand crossbows are just very overpowered at the moment.

But the 5e bard is a full caster, like a wizard or cleric. Generally, the best thing they can do in a fight is cast a spell, especially at higher levels. You can build a bard who uses weapons - they are flexible, and the Valour and Swords subclasses support that, but in PnP the spellcasting skill monkey Lore bard is usually considered the strongest of the available subclasses.

I got the lute joke, couldn't figure how to put a smiley in my sentence though. Hand crossbows it is then.

Yes, I plan on playing as a "pure" caster. Weapon attacks is for when there are no other good options or I want/need to not use up a spell slot. It was for this reason that I felt the spell list was a bit lacking given my "vision".

the Bard gets an extra short rest, which is important because many party spells and effects reset on a short rest
a bard in armour with a weapon can stand next to the badguy giving your other fighters flanking ... the hand crossbow is more for blowing things up and finishing off an enermy ... remember the dip auto dips both hand for that extra 2d6 of fire , poison etc but yes the real point of the Bard is saying hay guys how about you join our side?

Not sure but the hand crossbows may be nerfed a bit with the reloading feature unless you take the crossbow feat.

Still two quick shots at the beginning of combat can be very useful if used correctly.

I will be multiclassing my bard with three levels of Thief for Quick hands. Take sword bard and that gives you (with dual wield) at level 6 a bunch of spells, Two main hand attacks and two bonus off attacks. Jack of all trades. With current gear that gives extra bonus actions and momentum- my bard will be dashing in and out striking who and when she wants. Hopefully counter spell,etc can keep her from getting held, etc. Many of her spells will be used for defense and not offense.

I can already do some of this in EA…

Im quite sure Hand Crossbows were invented for Rogues so they have as much chances to deal Sneak Attack as possible.

I don't think either hand crossbows or rogues are likely to work the same in the full release as they do now. I wouldn't get too attached to a build at this time.

Isn't it impossible to get counter spell with 3 levels Thief and 9 levels sword bard? Would you not need to be a lvl 10 sword bard for that, or?

What is it that makes hand crossbows so good in EA? And if that is "fixed" would a longbow then be better or would they be about the same?

In 5e, they have the loading property, and you can not dual wield them, because they have the ammunition property.

Loading:
"Because of the time required to load this weapon, you can fire only one piece of ammunition from it when you use an action, bonus action, or reaction to fire it, regardless of the number of attacks you can normally make."

Ammunition:
"You can use a weapon that has the ammunition property to make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon). At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute to search the battlefield."

Both of these, and what makes hand crossbows so popular in 5e, can be solved with a feat called "crossbow expert"

Crossbow Expert:
"Thanks to extensive practice with the crossbow, you gain the following benefits:
- You ignore the loading property of crossbows with which you are proficient.
- Being within 5 feet of a hostile creature doesn’t impose disadvantage on your ranged attack rolls.
- When you use the Attack action and attack with a one-handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding."

So you basically get this feat, which is one of the strongest feats, for free, with the exception of the ability to attack from close range with ranged weapons (which, don't get me wrong, is still quite strong). Dual wielding and another attack with a bonus action are functionally equivalent.

In the full game, since the crossbow expert feat has been confirmed to be in the game, you will likely not be able to dual wield hand crossbows. Another sign of that is that hand crossbows get the weapon action mobile shot.

Mobile Shot:
"Make a Ranged Attack while moving.
Prerequisite: Must have Dashed or Disengaged this turn."

So basically "use your action to dash or disengage, then you can use a bonus action to attack with the hand crossbows". But as it is right now, this is completely redundant. Hand crossbows can do that anyways, without this weapon action, if you dual wield them.

Longbows are better if you do not use the crossbow expert feat. If you do use it, hand crossbows are better. Many ranged builds use this feat, even for the "you can attack without disadvantage at close distances" thing alone.

Hand crossbows deal 1d6, which is 3.5 on average.
Longbows deal 1d8, which is 4.5 on average.

That is 1 damage less on every attack... Does not really matter.
Most of your damage on ranged builds comes from Sharpshooter (+10 to every attack!) and stuff like that.

Sharpshooter:
"You have mastered ranged weapons and can make shots that others find impossible. You gain the following benefits:
- Attacking at long range doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged weapon attack rolls.
- Your ranged weapon attacks ignore half cover and three-quarters cover.
- Before you make an attack with a ranged weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage."

One benefit longbows have over hand crossbows is range.
Hand crossbows: 30/ 120
Longbows: 150/ 600

Ranges in BG3 have generally been reduced, so these will likely not be the numbers in the game. The first number is the range in feat you can attack normally, the second is your maximum range, but you attack with disadvantage. Both in feet.

Ranged characters will almost always take the Sharpshooter feat. That means you can attack at long range without disadvantage. So 600 feet for longbows and 120 feet for hand crossbows. A lot less, but generally, still more than enough.

So if you invest in the crossbow expert feat, hand crossbows are almost always better.
Otherwise, longbows are better, because of the range.

And, notably, another thing we can not predict of course is how many magic items will be in the game. What is the best longbow? What is the best hand crossbow? Those things matter, of course

A bit of inspiration, on what Bards can do, even in EA:

You are absolutely correct (unless Larian does a Larian). What I intended was spells like shield, mirror image, etc - defensive spells. Counter spell would be great when/if level cap is ever raised (or mods).