Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Balance Changes Needed for Two Weapon Fighting and Berserker

Two weapon fighting, and Berserker Barbarians really need some love.

Moreover, bonus actions are very valuable in Baldurs gate 3 and it almost feels like classes/builds that rely on bonus actions for damage are somewhat punished for it.
With that being said I would like to suggest some changes:

- Two Weapon Fighting should remove the bonus action cost for attacking with both weapons
- Reasoning: Playing with a 2handed weapon or using one weapon with a shield is generally always a better alternative. The only real potential benefit from dual wielding currently is making use of poison coatings

- Berserker Barbarian should make Rage a free action and make Frenzied Attack a free action at higher levels
- Reasoning: There's 0 reason to play Berserker at the moment. Wildheart has much better utility and
Fighter is better than Berserker flat out

If we're talking changes for classes, can we get warlocks to choose their pact of the tome cantrips?
Reason: That's how it is in d&d, normally, no idea why we're forced into a mediocre set here.

What about pact of the tome is mediocre?
You get guidance and haste + call lightning from deepened pact.
There's no cantrips worth picking that are going to be better than eldritch blast offensively and the utility cantrips aren't much useful either.

What if I don't want eldritch blast?
Maybe it's not a "good choice" to pick anything else, but it should be mine to make.

Make your own post then.
You're asking why you cant do something that isnt even a real benefit to.
I would just pick another class at that rate. There's no real benefit for warlock in having Fire bolt, Sacred Flame, or Shocking grasp.
Your issue has nothing to do with class balance. Its a niche personal preference.

You can pickup and throw people. Reason enough.

Free attack? OP much? That as bonus action is fine enough.

The whole point of dual-weilding is that you get to use bonus action for extra attack for free without feats or anything and two-weapon fighting has nothing to do with what you ask. Ofc, the whole dual-weilding won't fit well with a specialization that already gives you a way to make use of bonus action for attacking anyway.

That's life.

I tend to agree with @gaidax.It's on if you want to build a dual handed frenzy barb, but if you want this choice to be an optimal one, you are forcing a lot imho.

Optimisation of DPS for me with frenzy barb would be to choose a set-up where you don't already have filled the 'what do I do with my bonus action'. Frenzy barb choice will be an answer to that 'use it for a additional attack (or a, throw)', that is mostly what this class brings.

So considering that it can not be optimal for a dual hander who has already an answer to this question.

Now that is all good but this - 1 cumulative really kills the class in my eyes, so there is that

Berserkers certainly don't need any buffs. They're already insane with their damage resistance and extra great weapon attacks with damage bonuses. If you think Barbarians aren't "good enough" play a Fighter for a bit to get perspective.

Concerning two weapon fighting, Larian could just implement the same change One D&D is already making to Dual Wielding by making off-hand attacks part of the Attack Action. Dual wielding eats up feats and a combat style to become effective so it's not a problem. Shields and Great Weapon Master are still very powerful in comparison. Having a regular attack consume your BA was terrible design to begin with. Side effect was that a dual wielding Berserker makes no sense mechanically, while it could be really cool concept.

And just remove the extra Bonus Attack from Thief sub-class already. It's stupid it's most effective when abused in a Berserker build for yet another Greataxe attack. Not very Thief-like.

While we're talking about balance, Tavern Brawler needs to be toned town. It's not about tavern brawling anyway, it's about overpowering throwing weapons to ridiculous numbers.

And Paladins need their smites toned down to 1 per turn.

All (action) spells need to be limited to 1 per turn.

Haste needs to follow the actual rules instead of the senseless buff it got also doubling extra attacks.

I found two weapon fighting to be pretty good and a lot of fun. Sure it costs you the bonus action, but I find a lot of the time there isn’t actually anything better do with it than give someone a poke, particularly if it’s going to finish off a threat. Although most of the time, I’m mainly holding it for the special abilities towards the end.

It probably depends a lot on class. I duel wield with a sword bard with the two weapons fighting style (but not the feat to use bigger weapons). Also gave Minsk the ranger’s two weapon style and the feat for larger weapons just because I picked him up really late and had a couple of really good maces going spare. I think it suits him.

Rouges make really good use of their bonus actions though, so that might not be the best idea. As do barbarians, fighters and clerics (ie healing word).

i think some people should just play in story mode

Dual wield hand crossbows as a thief. Offhand shot is getting bonus damage from your ability modifier even without any feats or fighting styles. Thief at lvl 4 with sharpshooter will do like 60-70 dmg/turn not even counting sneak attacks or crits. It's oppressive to other builds.

Is there some PvP mode I am unaware of? How can any build have an oppressive effect on another? Or are you just saying you want to play an unoptimized build but want it to be optimized?

Oppressive effect because it feels like other builds are not doing anything in comparison when one build does like 3-5 times the damage of most builds.

There is a difference between optimized and bugged.