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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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A little bit about datamining and cut out, and what kind of holes were formed in the companions. A lot of things here are not even related to datamining, but to what is left in the game. First, I'll tell about Kasador and Astarion. Their plot very clearly suffers from narrative holes. City Judge Astarion lives an ordinary life. (after all, his story about corruption was removed). One day he is attacked by monster hunters (Gur) and beaten half to death because of something. But out of nowhere and it is not clear why Kasador appears and turns him. (let's say it's a real coincidence). But why the Gur attacked is still not known. Next, we meet one of the gurs, kill him, and ask who sent him - Maiden Fel sent him. He doesn't know Casador. And then, it turns out that the Gur were looking for Astarion, because he gave their children to Casador. Did the corpse lie to me? And here are the monster hunters and the spawn of vampires that have kidnapped THEIR CHILDREN. And they decide....to reconcile? Rili? What about Meiden Fel? After one failed attempt to capture Astarion, Kasador simply waits for Astarion. But we will generally go far from Baldur's Gate. He doesn't know why we're there. In my opinion, even without the cut data, this is a simplification of the characters. Astarion is only a victim. Casador is only evil. It is sad. About Voss Without a datamine, many people dont know that at the end we meet the dragon of Voss. Why is he all battered and his attitude towards us has changed? About Raphael Raphael offering a deal to rid us of a tadpole that leads nowhere and just gets hung up? About Halsin Halsin, who killed Isobella, is in fact guilty of the curse Such examples, I think, are full of the rest. And it saddens me to see how much the characters have been simplified. We no longer have that depth. I loved BG3 for its depth. I still love this game but it's sad to see how things have changed
Last edited by AkaiMikadzuki; 19/08/23 03:43 PM.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
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I couldn't agree more. I'm literally mourning Astarion the corrupted magistrate. It was such interesting idea, to make him both victim and abuser! It was the main reason I was so hyped for this game... And yes, I also noticed these old lines that are redundant now. The game is too big for them to "clean up" all the lines apparently.
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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Aug 2023
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I really hope they bring back Casador and his role. It will also make political intrigues more complete.
And I agree, in the days of EA, Astarion became the decisive factor when buying for me
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Astarion is not just painted as a victim. He has stayed an abuser and a self-serving prick the entire game, even if you get him to turn down replacing Cazador. During the final battle, even if you got him to give up power and be 'altruistic" in his Act 3 quests, he still encourages you to backstab your ally and take control of the nethercrown for yourself.
Quite frankly, the people I see here constantly rationalizing his behavior as that of a victim remind me of the women who write to serial killers in jail as "misunderstood; I can fix him!". Many people live under harrowing conditions and don't choose to inflict them on the rest of the world; that's a choice someone makes and determines what kind of person they've always been.
Last edited by Zenith; 22/08/23 02:43 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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Astarion is a vampire, and therefore literally evil. I just don't see how that's supposed to be a counterargument to adding depth to his backstory.
When people "rationalise", it's: "spending some odd hundred+ years as a slave gives you trust issues". Not "therefore he did nothing wrong ever".
You can not condone the actions of a fictional character without hating him. It's the same deal as for why people like villains.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Astarion is a vampire, and therefore literally evil. In Larian's setting, this obviously isn't true, since Astarion is an Origin character and can therefore be anything the player wants him to be. Jaheira even sort of lampshades this at one point. There is a plot hole which niggles at me in Astarion's story, but it's not the one mentioned above. Is Astarion essential to the ritual or not essential to the ritual? The game seemingly tries to have it both ways.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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The tadpole seems to overrule his vampire nature, because there is no epilogue it's very unclear if he will retain his individuality and growth after the end of the game or revert to default factory model vampire?
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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But that means the player's character would also revert if they chose his Origin. I seriously doubt Larian would go that route.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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The tadpole seems to overrule his vampire nature, because there is no epilogue it's very unclear if he will retain his individuality and growth after the end of the game or revert to default factory model vampire? You think he may be doomed to become like ascended vampire lord astarion ? As I understand it, vampirism warps emotions in such a way that the end product reads evil (with exceptions). Honestly, seeing what has been done to characters of prior games, fate might have anything in store for him.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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But that means the player's character would also revert if they chose his Origin. I seriously doubt Larian would go that route. it'd be the same arc as Karlach? and the tradegy of it would be a better story than hers because, the fate isn't as bad just instincts taking over which is a vampire classic fate.
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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It's a proper tragedy, not carnage
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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it'd be the same arc as Karlach? But it's not his arc. Nothing is ever mentioned about the tadpole affecting him that way. It would come completely out of thin air.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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it'd be the same arc as Karlach? But it's not his arc. Nothing is ever mentioned about the tadpole affecting him that way. It would come completely out of thin air. Would it? All the other elements of the vampire curse are disrupted, minus the bloodlust. Why not the warping of his inner being?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Because the game never addresses it. It's not part of the equation. You think they'd spring a happy ending override on their players, post-epilogue, with no warning?
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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Is that not what happened to characters from prior games?
If it's properly in the lore, it's not only in Larian's hands anymore.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Not that I remember. IMHO it would be pretty bad writing.
Larian gets to make their own lore. They do it over and over again in this very game.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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Not that I remember. IMHO it would be pretty bad writing. That is, indeed, what happened. They all got a canon ending, no matter what you did. If it wasn't undone, they faced calamities post-game which determined their fate. I expect the Bg3 cast will get the same treatment
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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No, it's not at all what happened. Apparently we read those endings very differently.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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it'd be the same arc as Karlach? But it's not his arc. Nothing is ever mentioned about the tadpole affecting him that way. It would come completely out of thin air. Maybe, to the way I interpreted his dialogue it was pretty directly mentioned. But no worries if you didn't read it that way. The game says the tadpole is stopping the vampire control, his early post-reveal dialogue is about how for the first time since he became a vampire he's himself again, and then over the story he becomes less and less a vampire, even if he does the ritual and becomes the thing, he is still more independent, individual and guided by his wants not his nature, than faerun vampires? If they put that in as the end, it'd work, and atleast it'd BE a conclusion instead of just, either he runs off id you didnt finish his quest or he POTENTIALLY makes a joke that you might randomly see or not, if you did?
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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