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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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Yes, I've played the games. I know what the endings say. I don't think it's the same thing at all. In fact I'm no longer sure we're even talking about the same thing. 
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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Yeah, sure, why not. I'm for my part 99.9% certain there will be a fixed ending by the time Bg4 comes out. That's just how these games roll
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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You wish the old canon is what happened to the BG companions. This is what larian had to work with https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/q3dbf4/minsc_and_boos_journal_of_villany/(its reddit so the language/tone is a bit, but its accurate to the book that is 5e canon)
Wizards of the Coast just released a 5e supplement written by James Ohlen called Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy. Alongside being a fantastic 5e source it updates a lot of classic Baldur's Gate characters to the fifth edition. Here's some of the things we learn about what our old friends have been up to:
Valygar and Xan both work for Candlekeep. Valygar has taken potions of longevity to continue his hunt for evil wizards. Xan, who is a "Blessed of Corellon," meaning his gender changes sometimes throughout his life, hopes to find a worthy heir for his moonblade before journeying to Evermeet.
Kivan and Faldorn are both members of the Emerald Enclave. Kivan is now married to Cernd and is attempting to expose Faldorn as an evil Shadow Druid.
Jaheira continues to serve the Harpers.
Minsc and Boo were petrified and spent nearly a century as a statue in Waterdeep before being freed. They are now members of an order known as the Knights of Bahamut.
Irenicus and Bodhi were placed in the Domains of Dread by the Dark Powers of Ravenloft. They now exist in a dark mirror of Suldanessellar. Irenicus is now a lich.
Montaran and Xzar have also returned from death and are members of the Shadow Thieves. Xzar has become a demilich which Montaran keeps in a bag of holding. There's also an insane simulacrum of Xzar running around.
Imoen also is a member of the Shadow Thieves. She was transformed into a vampire by Bodhi but has retained her good alignment.
Edwin now has the longevity of an elf, thanks to the Nether Scrolls. He is once more in good relationship with Thay and has taken over Razamith's Tower in Baldur's Gate.
Kagain is now a worshiper of Bhaal and leads an unscrupulous band of mercenaries in Baldur's Gate.
Saemon Havarion sold his soul to Baalzebul in exchange for long-life and fortune and is now desperately looking for a way out of the deal.
Sarevok became a homeless drug addict in Baldur's Gate until Bhaal, reborn, found him and made him a high priest of his clergy.
Viconia has started working with the cults of Elemental Evil to further the will of Shar.
EDIT: For those of you who are Neverwinter Nights fans, it also includes Aribeth de Tylmarande who is now a herald of Mephistopheles.
Larian thankfully changed what they could for some of this, while some stays the same. Although it does have expansion/DLC potential with Edwin having a tower in BG, maybe he could be a quest giver for a DLC adventure? or the big bad of one? I expect BG4 will either have a fixed ending or a, the absolute was destroyed, we never found out what happened to the guys who did it... type thing
Last edited by Starshine; 23/08/23 01:29 AM.
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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If that's the book I'm thinking of, I'm so glad Larian didn't go with that artist's depiction of Jaheira.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2020
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If that's the book I'm thinking of, I'm so glad Larian didn't go with that artist's depiction of Jaheira. Like I don't love what they did with Sarevok, but I AM SO GLAD that's canon now not what M&BBoV said
Minthara is the best character and she NEEDS to be recruitable if you side with the grove! Also- I support the important thread in the suggestions: Let everyone in the Party Speak
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2021
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A little bit about datamining and cut out, and what kind of holes were formed in the companions. A lot of things here are not even related to datamining, but to what is left in the game. First, I'll tell about Kasador and Astarion. Their plot very clearly suffers from narrative holes. City Judge Astarion lives an ordinary life. (after all, his story about corruption was removed). One day he is attacked by monster hunters (Gur) and beaten half to death because of something. But out of nowhere and it is not clear why Kasador appears and turns him. (let's say it's a real coincidence). But why the Gur attacked is still not known. Next, we meet one of the gurs, kill him, and ask who sent him - Maiden Fel sent him. He doesn't know Casador. And then, it turns out that the Gur were looking for Astarion, because he gave their children to Casador. Did the corpse lie to me? And here are the monster hunters and the spawn of vampires that have kidnapped THEIR CHILDREN. And they decide....to reconcile? Rili? What about Meiden Fel? After one failed attempt to capture Astarion, Kasador simply waits for Astarion. But we will generally go far from Baldur's Gate. He doesn't know why we're there. In my opinion, even without the cut data, this is a simplification of the characters. Astarion is only a victim. Casador is only evil. It is sad. About Voss Without a datamine, many people dont know that at the end we meet the dragon of Voss. Why is he all battered and his attitude towards us has changed? About Raphael Raphael offering a deal to rid us of a tadpole that leads nowhere and just gets hung up? About Halsin Halsin, who killed Isobella, is in fact guilty of the curse Such examples, I think, are full of the rest. And it saddens me to see how much the characters have been simplified. We no longer have that depth. I loved BG3 for its depth. I still love this game but it's sad to see how things have changed Same. I miss all of these really juicy, really interesting and complex backstories - just like I miss the original Shadowheart, before they barbified her in EA. Her attitude towards the world and the player was so much better. I feel like they softened everyone in general because a few players complained about "all the evil companions". And so now they are more than a little bland. However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Baldur's Gate franchise was never about having lily-white innocent friends in your party; a cursory look at the previous games shows that many of the companions were worse than the worst version of EA!Astarion.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Yeah the whole Cazador situation felt a bit messy tbh, in my personal opinion. Like... you literally can be wandering around baldurs gate and suddenly find a door that essentially leads you right into cazadors house. I mean, the dude is suppose to be an extremely ancient vampire, illusive even and unseen by the public much, and yet, his home has been placed literally around the block at number 27 next to the local park.
Astarion is supposedly an essential part of cazadors ritual, and yet Astarions logic is to take us (the player) to go fight him, when astarion himself clearly tells us that we probably not stand a chance. We hear all these things about cazador being extremely powerful, yet the fight itself is very bland and there's no build-up of excitement/urgency to it.
What I would have maybe liked is if cazador had escaped somehow post ritual (hes a vampire. mist and fog and all that), which would have then added to another urgency in hunting him down throughout the city. Maybe he tries to flee to an underground crypt somewhere to recover and we have to go down and stake his ass - good ole dracula style. Overall, that part of act 3 just felt rushed. They could have played around so much with it and added loads more around vampire lore in general, but they let the opportunity slide.
astarion comments that cazador could literally walk into your camp at any point and attack. Tbh, I would have been intrigued to see how that would have played out. would have been interesting for a first meet and greet. Especially if cazador offers the player something vital in exchange for astarion himself (just pondering ideas here).
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Feb 2020
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Yeah the whole Cazador situation felt a bit messy tbh, in my personal opinion. Like... you literally can be wandering around baldurs gate and suddenly find a door that essentially leads you right into cazadors house. I mean, the dude is suppose to be an extremely ancient vampire, illusive even and unseen by the public much, and yet, his home has been placed literally around the block at number 27 next to the local park.
Astarion is supposedly an essential part of cazadors ritual, and yet Astarions logic is to take us (the player) to go fight him, when astarion himself clearly tells us that we probably not stand a chance. We hear all these things about cazador being extremely powerful, yet the fight itself is very bland and there's no build-up of excitement/urgency to it.
What I would have maybe liked is if cazador had escaped somehow post ritual (hes a vampire. mist and fog and all that), which would have then added to another urgency in hunting him down throughout the city. Maybe he tries to flee to an underground crypt somewhere to recover and we have to go down and stake his ass - good ole dracula style. Overall, that part of act 3 just felt rushed. They could have played around so much with it and added loads more around vampire lore in general, but they let the opportunity slide.
astarion comments that cazador could literally walk into your camp at any point and attack. Tbh, I would have been intrigued to see how that would have played out. would have been interesting for a first meet and greet. Especially if cazador offers the player something vital in exchange for astarion himself (just pondering ideas here). I was expecting... a Raphael power-level of a fight given the build-up, instead he went down in 2 rounds and was more of a wet noodle than anything. Pretty disappointing.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Nov 2020
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Cazador obviously is a victim of last minute content cuts. I bet his plot and maybe even bossfight was going to be more interesting. According to dataminers he was going to be important political figure in the upper city, give you quests and even optionally help you fight the absolute. But after they cut the upper city, they obviously had to quickly rearrange his plot, so Astarion could have a closure to his quest. Probably that's why his "palace" looks like city walls from the outside - they had to find him a new location in the lower city.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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A little bit about datamining and cut out, and what kind of holes were formed in the companions. A lot of things here are not even related to datamining, but to what is left in the game. First, I'll tell about Kasador and Astarion. Their plot very clearly suffers from narrative holes. City Judge Astarion lives an ordinary life. (after all, his story about corruption was removed). One day he is attacked by monster hunters (Gur) and beaten half to death because of something. But out of nowhere and it is not clear why Kasador appears and turns him. (let's say it's a real coincidence). But why the Gur attacked is still not known. Next, we meet one of the gurs, kill him, and ask who sent him - Maiden Fel sent him. He doesn't know Casador. And then, it turns out that the Gur were looking for Astarion, because he gave their children to Casador. Did the corpse lie to me? And here are the monster hunters and the spawn of vampires that have kidnapped THEIR CHILDREN. And they decide....to reconcile? Rili? What about Meiden Fel? After one failed attempt to capture Astarion, Kasador simply waits for Astarion. But we will generally go far from Baldur's Gate. He doesn't know why we're there. In my opinion, even without the cut data, this is a simplification of the characters. Astarion is only a victim. Casador is only evil. It is sad. About Voss Without a datamine, many people dont know that at the end we meet the dragon of Voss. Why is he all battered and his attitude towards us has changed? About Raphael Raphael offering a deal to rid us of a tadpole that leads nowhere and just gets hung up? About Halsin Halsin, who killed Isobella, is in fact guilty of the curse Such examples, I think, are full of the rest. And it saddens me to see how much the characters have been simplified. We no longer have that depth. I loved BG3 for its depth. I still love this game but it's sad to see how things have changed Same. I miss all of these really juicy, really interesting and complex backstories - just like I miss the original Shadowheart, before they barbified her in EA. Her attitude towards the world and the player was so much better. I feel like they softened everyone in general because a few players complained about "all the evil companions". And so now they are more than a little bland. However, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the Baldur's Gate franchise was never about having lily-white innocent friends in your party; a cursory look at the previous games shows that many of the companions were worse than the worst version of EA!Astarion. What makes it funny/sad/ironic is how people are probably most fond of the characters they changed the least (Lae'zel, Astarion) and Karlach. And as much as I love Karlach, I think I'm on the side of the arguments that she feels far too 21st Century than any other character, and doesn't really feel at all like a decade-long infernal champion escapee.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Jul 2023
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Astarion still encourages you to backstab your ally and take control of the nethercrown for yourself. I don't know if this was a bug or what, but in my game I did the back stabbing only to have Astarion promptly yell WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?! ARE YOU MAD!?! While I was stabbing. I'm like really dude? You just told me to.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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He's never told my characters to do any such thing.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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Astarion still encourages you to backstab your ally and take control of the nethercrown for yourself. I don't know if this was a bug or what, but in my game I did the back stabbing only to have Astarion promptly yell WHAT ARE YOU DOING!?! ARE YOU MAD!?! While I was stabbing. I'm like really dude? You just told me to. Lmao
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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You wish the old canon is what happened to the BG companions. This is what larian had to work with https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/q3dbf4/minsc_and_boos_journal_of_villany/(its reddit so the language/tone is a bit, but its accurate to the book that is 5e canon)
Wizards of the Coast just released a 5e supplement written by James Ohlen called Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy. Alongside being a fantastic 5e source it updates a lot of classic Baldur's Gate characters to the fifth edition. Here's some of the things we learn about what our old friends have been up to:
Valygar and Xan both work for Candlekeep. Valygar has taken potions of longevity to continue his hunt for evil wizards. Xan, who is a "Blessed of Corellon," meaning his gender changes sometimes throughout his life, hopes to find a worthy heir for his moonblade before journeying to Evermeet.
Kivan and Faldorn are both members of the Emerald Enclave. Kivan is now married to Cernd and is attempting to expose Faldorn as an evil Shadow Druid.
Jaheira continues to serve the Harpers.
Minsc and Boo were petrified and spent nearly a century as a statue in Waterdeep before being freed. They are now members of an order known as the Knights of Bahamut.
Irenicus and Bodhi were placed in the Domains of Dread by the Dark Powers of Ravenloft. They now exist in a dark mirror of Suldanessellar. Irenicus is now a lich.
Montaran and Xzar have also returned from death and are members of the Shadow Thieves. Xzar has become a demilich which Montaran keeps in a bag of holding. There's also an insane simulacrum of Xzar running around.
Imoen also is a member of the Shadow Thieves. She was transformed into a vampire by Bodhi but has retained her good alignment.
Edwin now has the longevity of an elf, thanks to the Nether Scrolls. He is once more in good relationship with Thay and has taken over Razamith's Tower in Baldur's Gate.
Kagain is now a worshiper of Bhaal and leads an unscrupulous band of mercenaries in Baldur's Gate.
Saemon Havarion sold his soul to Baalzebul in exchange for long-life and fortune and is now desperately looking for a way out of the deal.
Sarevok became a homeless drug addict in Baldur's Gate until Bhaal, reborn, found him and made him a high priest of his clergy.
Viconia has started working with the cults of Elemental Evil to further the will of Shar.
EDIT: For those of you who are Neverwinter Nights fans, it also includes Aribeth de Tylmarande who is now a herald of Mephistopheles.
Larian thankfully changed what they could for some of this, while some stays the same. Although it does have expansion/DLC potential with Edwin having a tower in BG, maybe he could be a quest giver for a DLC adventure? or the big bad of one? I expect BG4 will either have a fixed ending or a, the absolute was destroyed, we never found out what happened to the guys who did it... type thing I'm having a prophetic vision. "You thought the tadpoles crumbling to dust were unrealistic? Hah! You all probably died in the blast!". Not really, but imagine. They fix the ending... and reveal 10 years later it really was ME3 all along. Your party could end up everywhere... if they don't overthrow important political figures... or become tyrants... or be heroes of a civil war. That's. Huh. Maybe not all of them, but some? Oh, god. I hope Astarion doesn't become a boss fight
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