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This happened just before I finished up playing last night and it's been bugging me. It's certainly not the biggest issue I have with the story, or even with Wyll, but thought I'd see if anyone else had the same problem while it was fresh in my mind.

Basically, there's a decision that Wyll needs to make in Act 3 and my character didn't have the option to tell him that it was his call, only to steer him in one direction or another. This is niggling particularly as the way she would steer him to go probably isn't what he'd do if it were up to him, so it feels like the game is forcing me to compromise roleplaying my own character if I'm going to allow Wyll to be who I think he is on this run.

But then my party acts as though Wyll did make the decision by himself, so I'm not sure if the game is letting him decide behind the scenes or even if it's bugged and I'm missing some options, which certainly seems to be the case in some other dialogues.

More specifically ...

In my playthrough, Mizora has agreed to break Wyll's pact in six months. However, after Gortash's coronation, she appeared to tell us his father has been whisked away (which was pretty quick, as we'd only just left the audience chamber!). That night, she came to our inn room and gave Wyll a choice of signing up with her again for eternity and saving his father, or letting his father die and breaking the pact immediately.

The only options I had are as per the below screenshot. My character definitely wouldn't encourage him to sell his soul, so I went with 3 despite the fact that she'd never try to make such a decision for him. And he went along with the suggestion without any argument. Whereas I feel that the Wyll in my playthrough probably would have made the other choice, as someone willing to sacrifice himself for the greater good and in the hope that he might find a way out later. He might not have, admittedly, and when I spoke to my party members afterwards they all seemed to be talking as though he'd given up his father of his own free will rather than because I'd asked him to, so for me it's less about the actual outcome than feeling that the scene and process didn't ring true.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Did anyone else have similar problems with this scene? Did it play out differently for you?


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I KNEW WHAT THIS WAS BEFORE I EVEN CLICKED ON THE POST.

So many companions have the opportunity to decide for themselves, with the result likely swayed by what you said in the past and your approval. I found it odd you couldn’t let Wyll decide.

I chose to ask him to choose himself, as I think that’s what you-know-who would have wanted.

On the other hand, I guess it’s ok if the party thinks he chose himself. They think other companions chose for themselves if you intervene to make the choice they would have made anyway. Here, it’s more open to interpretation.


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No, I had the exact same issue with it. Really not a fan that there's no "It's your decision, Wyll, do what you think is best." It felt very... Bioware, for lack of a better term.

It's especially bothersome given that you can
have Wyll break the pact in exchange for his father's life, then rather easily save his father's life.

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I guess the interpretation is that while we tell him "do this" or "do that" it's ultimately up to him to listen since these aren't even persuasions or anything like that. But those options do all come across as very inconsiderate and rude given what's at stake so I thought that was incredibly strange as well...no idea if it's a bug or if there's supposed to be more options there but at least for now it seems like those are the options possible. As for responsibility for the decisions made there is a lot of that to go around in the game...plenty of instances the player decides something or persuades a companion to do something but afterwards half the conversations options are "why would you do that?" "I can't believe you did that", etc. Hopefully some of those will be touched upon in patches. But this one specifically seems like it needs a conversation option that is a little bit more respectful of Wyll.

Still in terms of the game content there is a clear best option I think.
Having Wyll save his father leads to more story content and a massive dungeon quest that leads to another massive plot twist revelation about the main story of the game and some incredible legendary items. Obviously the implications for Wyll are terrible but at least once across all your playthroughs this is something you should do imo.

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I had several problems with this scene, but not that particular problem. I think I got the same choices as in the screenshot and I hated them all, not because there was no "let Wyll choose" line, but because none of them matched what I wanted to say in the slightest.

I don't think signing over your soul to a devil is equivalent to giving your life for someone/something. I think it's actually a selfish, short-sighted, desperate thing to do, because as we're repeatedly told throughout the game, bargains with devils work to their overall advantage, not yours. And their goals are never good ones. Don't do it. No deals with devils.

Can't say anything like that though.

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Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
I had several problems with this scene, but not that particular problem. I think I got the same choices as in the screenshot and I hated them all, not because there was no "let Wyll choose" line, but because none of them matched what I wanted to say in the slightest.

I don't think signing over your soul to a devil is equivalent to giving your life for someone/something. I think it's actually a selfish, short-sighted, desperate thing to do, because as we're repeatedly told throughout the game, bargains with devils work to their overall advantage, not yours. And their goals are never good ones. Don't do it. No deals with devils.

Can't say anything like that though.

HUGE SPOILERS
It IS possible to save Duke Ravengard after you cut Wyll's contract but it's significantly harder and Mizora will interfere. Just found this info on Reddit.

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Exact same dialogue options for me, so no, you're not missing anything. What's weird is that Larian is inconsistent with this sort of thing.

With Shadowheart, the 'right' way to change her is to be closer to her, and then trust her to make the right decisions, despite all her insane Shar talk all the way down in the Shar temple.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Exact same dialogue options for me, so no, you're not missing anything. What's weird is that Larian is inconsistent with this sort of thing.

With Shadowheart, the 'right' way to change her is to be closer to her, and then trust her to make the right decisions, despite all her insane Shar talk all the way down in the Shar temple.
Wyll did get a rewrite pretty late into development so it makes sense that his scenes are a bit rough around the edges.

What bothered me more is that
sacrificing his soul is viewed as the right decision by most of the companions

Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
HUGE SPOILERS
It IS possible to save Duke Ravengard after you cut Wyll's contract but it's significantly harder and Mizora will interfere. Just found this info on Reddit.
I actually did this on my good playthrough and it's really weird.
Some dialogue you get implies that Wyll had sold his soul even though he did not

Last edited by Nerovar; 21/08/23 03:06 PM.
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Yeah no option for Wyll to choose, do Larian read the forums at all? I know they are planning to release 1k bug fixes and then implement some suggestions in Patch 2 but what exactly?

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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
It IS possible to save Duke Ravengard after you cut Wyll's contract but it's significantly harder and Mizora will interfere. Just found this info on Reddit.

Yes, I know. I've done that four times now. Mizora can go to... well, y'know.

This is how Wyll's storyline works out in my games:


Wyll: Hi! I sold my soul to a devil because it was Heroic.
Me: What?! That was a terrible idea!
Wyll: No, no. It's cool. I'm fine with it. Anyway, Mizora is pretty awful, isn't she?
Me: ....
Wyll: An evil, lying, backstabbing, sneaking, manipulative piece of (&**.
Me: ....
Wyll: Oh, and she has a new contract for me, think I should sign it?
Me: .... NO, OF COURSE NOT.

Addendum: Balduran was evil. The end.

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As seemingly one of the few people on the forum who liked old Wyll and was considering playing him on my first origin run, I was a little turned off by the rewrite. I still like his story but it’s firmly in supporting character rank to me. I’m really curious to know what changed. I wonder what changed about Mizora too if anything.

Regarding saving Ravenguard

Mizora’s minions being unable to open doors was helpful

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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon
Originally Posted by Tarlonniel
I had several problems with this scene, but not that particular problem. I think I got the same choices as in the screenshot and I hated them all, not because there was no "let Wyll choose" line, but because none of them matched what I wanted to say in the slightest.

I don't think signing over your soul to a devil is equivalent to giving your life for someone/something. I think it's actually a selfish, short-sighted, desperate thing to do, because as we're repeatedly told throughout the game, bargains with devils work to their overall advantage, not yours. And their goals are never good ones. Don't do it. No deals with devils.

Can't say anything like that though.

HUGE SPOILERS
It IS possible to save Duke Ravengard after you cut Wyll's contract but it's significantly harder and Mizora will interfere. Just found this info on Reddit.

Yes, you can.

It's actually quite fun too, because it really makes you use all the spells in your arsenal to get around Mizora's little trap, like telekinesis or dimension door, or difficult terrain for the things she throws at you, there's a host of stuff and the satisfaction of beating her at her little game is extra satisfying.

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Originally Posted by zanos
HUGE SPOILERS
It IS possible to save Duke Ravengard after you cut Wyll's contract but it's significantly harder and Mizora will interfere. Just found this info on Reddit.

Yes, you can.

It's actually quite fun too, because it really makes you use all the spells in your arsenal to get around Mizora's little trap, like telekinesis or dimension door, or difficult terrain for the things she throws at you, there's a host of stuff and the satisfaction of beating her at her little game is extra satisfying.

Huh.
The only thing she did in my playthrough was summoning the explosive spiders, which I disposed of quite quickly. Ravengard escaped pretty smootly, which did made me laugh. I mean, come on Mizora, for all that sass I thought you can do better than that.

Last edited by Fasper; 22/08/23 06:13 AM.
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You don't even need to do that. If you toss an invisibility potion at an npc, even if it shows a percentage chance, the splash on the floor always applies the ffect anyways. Ravenguard becomes invisible. The spiders derp out and do nothing while he trivially gets to safety. This is how you easily rescue Florrick as well.


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