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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Im kinda mad EA implied our dream guest is evil when we see how BG burns and it’s our future or something. So when game was out I was super suspicious and expect a special ending and may be an achievment for never using a single tadpole. Turned out it was a mistake - no consequences at all and no rewards in any way too if you refuse to take the powers. Some claim there was a cut content where you basically have a bad ending and all happens like I thought during EA. The worst part it still feels like the dream person cant be trusted, the way game offers the powers doesnt imply in any way its free power up with no consequences even your brain becomes more illithid and most of the time we pursue the goal to remove the one we already have rather than add more. And party members arent too happy about it too. But it is free power up! Not sure if it’s considered a feedback, but here it is. It should be some how articulated better.
May be tadpoles you find automatically give you a skill point? There shouldnt be a choice with current state of things anyway. Game would basically say - use it, no need to doubt.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 23/08/23 01:23 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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I mean Early Access started three years before the full release...stuff changes in that time and it's not unreasonable for Larian to put some red herrings in there on purpose to protect some of the main plot from being spoiled before launch even if they knew what they wanted to do for the final game with the character at the time.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Im kinda mad EA implied our dream guest is evil when we see how BG burns and it’s our future or something. So when game was out I was super suspicious and expect a special ending and may be an achievment for never using a single tadpole. Turned out it was a mistake - no consequences at all and no rewards in any way too if you refuse to take the powers. Some claim there was a cut content where you basically have a bad ending and all happens like I thought during EA. The worst part it still feels like the dream person cant be trusted, the way game offers the powers doesnt imply in any way its free power up with no consequences even your brain becomes more illithid and most of the time we pursue the goal to remove the one we already have rather than add more. And party members arent too happy about it too. But it is free power up! Not sure if it’s considered a feedback, but here it is. It should be some how articulated better.
May be tadpoles you find automatically give you a skill point? There shouldnt be a choice with current state of things anyway. Game would basically say - use it, no need to doubt.
From the narration alone it's clear they either intended on tricking the player into thinking there would be consequences ("A-THOR-i-TY") when there simply isn't, or they changed the consequences along with whatever else they changed. I do understand the logic of "there has to be some obvious point where people are allowed to step back from the tadpole after trying it out" otherwise you'd have people getting bad or less than optimal endings after using the tadpole a single time, freeing SH for example. That said, having a secret ending like wotr would have been interesting, but I doubt there is anything like that. Most likely things changed as part of the tadpole skill tree. It's a shame really, because for me, the guardian was always so suspicious anyways, and I always assumed they were tempting us. I think that's what frustrated me the most, other than a single time of "Oh, you haven't used the power yet, no worries", the game completely ignored me NOT using the tadpole, in fact it assumed I used it 
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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There's also a lot fewer [Illithid] options after Act 1. It wouldn't surprise me if the consequences were something like:
Don't use the tadpoles -- hooray, you're fine, but maybe there'll be some downside in the future, outcomes to quests you couldn't get without your powers.
Use the tadpoles a little/resist Daisy/Stop using the powers before a threshold -- are you able to maintain this resistance forever, perhaps opened you up to being turned into a Mind Flayer, controlled by the Elder Brain, etc.
Use the tadpoles a lot/don't resist Daisy/Go past the threshold -- unless you find some way to remove the tadpole or counteract it (eg. the ring), you're going to have a bad time, that supposed 'down by the river' ending? But maybe you can master those powers?
Raphael removes the tadpole around the end of Act 1.
You used to have to use the tadpoles to get powers from them, and there was clearly something up with Daisy, and the game was more open about using the tadpoles causing memory loss, etc. Wyll's whole character was basically about toeing the line between a mistake he made without understanding the ramifications but still being in love with the powers it gave him. I don't think any of those consequence 'paths' would've locked you into anything, but it wouldn't have surprised me if you say ended up in a position where it was like 'DC 99 to resist being sucked into the Absolute' or something.
Again, basically all supposition.
Last edited by Milkfred; 23/08/23 02:19 AM.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jan 2021
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We know there was supposed to be negative ramifications for using them. IIRC there even was datamined voiced lines about Nere and him taking control of you if you refused him while having heavy tadpole usage.
There's also still at least one line left over from EA for using the tadpole powers to convince enemies-the one about 'losing part of yourself you'll never get back' If stuff like that wasn't heavy foreshadowing, I don't know what is.
We know Rafael was going to be one option (perhaps a last resort option) to remove the tadpole, but there was going to be others, as well as the notion of just keeping the tadpoles and seeing how far that wild ride would take you.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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Yes it's unfortunate, I don't really understand the reason for removing all that. Maybe they wanted to encourage everyone to use the illithid tree for balance reasons. Storywise it's a huge let down, I'd much rather the illithid tree not be in the game I don't like homogenization of classes by putting a layer of generic shared abilities over the top of it.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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I mean Early Access started three years before the full release...stuff changes in that time and it's not unreasonable for Larian to put some red herrings in there on purpose to protect some of the main plot from being spoiled before launch even if they knew what they wanted to do for the final game with the character at the time. I would accept such explanation IF they ever stated that EA story is intentionally altered and doesnt represent what we gonna have in final versio. preferably on main menu screen with big red letters, otherwise I was missled into underperfoming during my blind playthrough. Not to mention Im not obligated to seek for such information if it was intentionally different in EA to protect the real plot from leaking. As for now it feels more like cut content. Im more likely believe its cut content than gameplay mechanics which looks like it has drawbacks, but in reality it doesnt. Dont get me wrong, i merely wish what is best for the game and share my concerns. I do it not from ill intent or hate towards the game. It deserves more critic than it has, while it remains one of the best games in years.
Last edited by Berseria; 23/08/23 01:44 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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I mean Early Access started three years before the full release...stuff changes in that time and it's not unreasonable for Larian to put some red herrings in there on purpose to protect some of the main plot from being spoiled before launch even if they knew what they wanted to do for the final game with the character at the time. I would accept such explanation IF they ever stated that EA story is intentionally altered and doesnt represent what we gonna have in final versio. preferably on main menu screen with big red letters, otherwise I was missled into underperfoming during my blind playthrough. Not to mention Im not obligated to seek for such information if it was intentionally different in EA to protect the real plot from leaking. As for now it feels more like cut content. Im more likely believe its cut content than gameplay mechanics which looks like it has drawbacks, but in reality it doesnt. Dont get me wrong, i merely wish what is best for the game and share my concerns. I do it not from ill intent or hate towards the game. It deserves more critic than it has, while it remains one of the best games in years. They even still hinted at consequences in their last community update 3 days before launch.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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They even still hinted at consequences in their last community update 3 days before launch. There are consequences if you use the more advanced tadpoles of which there are two. One will mutilate your face with webs of black veins covering it, and the second will turn you into a mind flayer, destroying the soul of your character and dooming your character to become just another mind flayer under the control of an elder brain in time. Those are very severe consequences.
Last edited by Darth_Trethon; 23/08/23 03:18 PM.
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Joined: May 2022
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That doesn't really count for me.
The first one is a purely cosmetic effect. This is not a severe consequence.
For the second one you know exactly what choice you are making. That's not a down-the-road consequence, it's a direct choice.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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That doesn't really count for me.
The first one is a purely cosmetic effect. This is not a severe consequence.
For the second one you know exactly what choice you are making. That's not a down-the-road consequence, it's a direct choice. I would say mutilation is pretty severe...it's generally a pretty traumatic and extreme change that people are haunted by for the rest of their lives.
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member
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member
Joined: May 2022
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That doesn't really count for me.
The first one is a purely cosmetic effect. This is not a severe consequence.
For the second one you know exactly what choice you are making. That's not a down-the-road consequence, it's a direct choice. I would say mutilation is pretty severe...it's generally a pretty traumatic and extreme change that people are haunted by for the rest of their lives. If the game would have your character be haunted or traumatized, it would be severe. But that doesn't happen. Therefore it's purely cosmetic for your character.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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That doesn't really count for me.
The first one is a purely cosmetic effect. This is not a severe consequence.
For the second one you know exactly what choice you are making. That's not a down-the-road consequence, it's a direct choice. I would say mutilation is pretty severe...it's generally a pretty traumatic and extreme change that people are haunted by for the rest of their lives. with that logic, losing an eye is a game changing event that has real and lasting consequences, except it doesn't really. Head canon changes and cosmetic changes are meaningless if the narrative doesn't respond to any of it.
Last edited by Boblawblah; 23/08/23 03:55 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2020
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Not just face, whole body go fugly: HDR screenshot glitch also make it look a lot less severe than it actually is.
Last edited by DumbleDorf; 23/08/23 04:02 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2013
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with that logic, losing an eye is a game changing event that has real and lasting consequences, except it doesn't really. Head canon changes and cosmetic changes are meaningless if the narrative doesn't respond to any of it. Depends which one you mean because there are two such events...the consequence of one is actually pretty nasty while the other will have a positive effect although you will now have one eye that looks different from the other. But still not the same thing as complete facial mutilation.
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Joined: Mar 2020
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I preferred the original version. The rewrite is a mess. Massive spoilers for all parts of game: It's a pretty clear case of game logic interfering with good story telling. The problems start with Larian's attitude towards the DnD ruleset - they don't believe DnD combat can be made fun unless it plays more like DOS2 (*)
The devs poured efforts into a creating illithid powers that would make the game more fun and found that people weren't using them. So instead of doing what BG1 and WotR did - giving one set of powers for embracing evil and one set for resisting evil - the devs decided to alter the story to encourage people to use the powers they made.
That's where the problem starts -- Larian's CEO was working with a ruleset he didn't like. "We made these powers - analytics tell us people aren't using them - so how to get people to use to use them?"
The CEO chose to alter the story rather than make an alternate set of powers or some other sort of reward for avoiding them. Bad decision on his part.
The original story - remnants of which survive with releasing Mizora - would have been better. Do I let this thing eat more of my brain to save Wyll? Do I sacrifice neurons for Zevlor the traitor?
To be clear I enjoy playing DnD with additional powers but I wanted them to work like BG's dream powers or WotR's demon crystal powers.
And I'll keep saying this: this doesn't mean that parts of the game aren't truly fantastic! It's just that one of those fantastic things is not the main plot.
(*)Tangent: anyone who denies that the steel watch foundry fight is a DOS2 fight is fooling themselves. You are supposed to create a water surface and electrify it. And if you've been collecting your sparkwall gear this is easily done . . .
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Are we really gonna discuss differen skin texture as huge enough impact on game expirience and compare it to real life mutilation for some reason rather than acknowledge game handled illithid powers poorly? Its a game we all stunned by for how our choices and actions metter and world reacts to us, changes. slightly different skin isnt what you expect here from a major body changing decision from dangerous alien worm who might mindcontrol you. To improve we should be honest when something is lacking rather than blindly defend and nitpick. If Larian notice many people arent satisfied with current state of illithid powers they might one day rework it and we all gonna be happy it happened. Otherwise we dont improve and deny us a better game.
Not to mention its far from obvious these powers are safe to use for a player. Imagine you play doom and suddenly you offered to consume demon soul and get an upgrade but you grow horns and get red eyes or something and you know there are multiple endings. What if your first idea what can cause a bad ending?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I agree that this particular choice should have had a much larger impact. It's the underlying plot and justification to the entire story, so it feels weird that it doesn't matter in the end.
Last edited by The Frosthaven; 23/08/23 05:56 PM.
Justice For Karlach.
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2023
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I think that the Dark Urge originated from the tadpole thing. The more you used its powers, the less control you'd have over your actions, and ultimately, you'd transform. Now, with the DU origin, that'd make these elements overlap. Instead they went with the "tadpole tree" instead.
Personally, I'd have preferred the former version. You could play evil, use the tadpole and become more and more erratic, barely clinging to your sanity at some point.
For the custom origin, I'd have done a different story altogether. Maybe not even an absolute evil one, maybe an antihero arc with a chance of redemption.
But it is what it is, and I still don't use the tadpoles.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Apr 2013
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I think that the Dark Urge originated from the tadpole thing. The more you used its powers, the less control you'd have over your actions, and ultimately, you'd transform. Now, with the DU origin, that'd make these elements overlap. Instead they went with the "tadpole tree" instead.
Personally, I'd have preferred the former version. You could play evil, use the tadpole and become more and more erratic, barely clinging to your sanity at some point.
For the custom origin, I'd have done a different story altogether. Maybe not even an absolute evil one, maybe an antihero arc with a chance of redemption.
But it is what it is, and I still don't use the tadpoles. No. Without going into spoilers the Dark Urge has nothing to do with the tadpoles and it never did. Also based on datamined info it seems like the Dark Urge was originally intended to be the base Tav experience regardless of tadpole use. It's more related to the plot of BG1 and BG2 than tadpoles. That's why it seems like like the Dark Urge is literally Tav+ or rather why Tav seems so bland and empty.
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![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/KHfbqm1.jpg)
