Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion What exactly is a "Lolth-sworn Drow"?

In pondering a non-evil Drow play through, I found myself wondering what the term "Lolth-sworn" actually means. Do all Drow go through some kind of initiation ceremony whereby they formally swear fealty to Lolth? Or are all Drow, um...'baptized' at birth and 'opted-in' to Lolth worship? Is it just about worshiping Lolth, rather than some kind of formal vow to the Spider Queen?

But the impression I get of this racial differentiation is that it is really determined by whether or not the character formally participates in Drow society. A Seldarine Drow basically seems to be any drow who doesn't participate, or rejects, traditional Underdark Drow society. Good, evil or neutral, Seldarine Drow don't seem to follow the standards and values of Drow society, rather than being someone who isn't formally 'sworn' to Lolth.

In researching this question, I've run across some different kinds of Seldarine Drow. In Faerun lore, such Drow have usually been outcasts from Drow cities (the most famous of which has been Drizzt Do'Urden, of whom I actually don't know much about.) But apparently there are some Drow who did not opt to follow Lolth into the Underdark (search for 'Aevendrow'.) This seems to be a fairly new concept recently introduced by Wizards of the Coast.

As a point of reference, most of my knowledge of Drow comes from Greyhawk not Forgotten Realms. Drow cities in Greyhawk are more chaotic and less racist than Menzoberranzan, but still quite evil. Or at least Erelhei-Cinlu seems rather different.

Can't answer the in-depth lore questions, but in terms of the game;

A Lolth-sworn Drow is basically an indoctrinated Drow, similarly to how the Githyanki are indoctrinated by Vlaakith. Meaning you're pretty much entirely shackled to the Queen of Spiders and her social norms of Menzoberranzan which live and breathe through your character who fully participates in kidnapping children, enslavement, misandry, acting superior against "lesser" races, "lesser" sexes and so on. And anyone who fails the Queen of Spiders ends up as a drider for punishment.

So if you're interested in a non-evil Drow playthrough, I fully recommend the Seldarine Drow. Their racial responses are fantastic, especially when they get to break the racial stigma and make the Lolth ones look bad

5e decided that good drow instead of being rebels or heretics who have made the decision for themselves, there is now a city of GOOD drow who live on the surface who are good so drow subrace one evil and one good. Because the whole fun of playing a good drow being the tragic, romantic exile who broke with tradition for justify wasn't fun enough for them?

In game it seems to mean, has background raised in Menzoberranzan AND still worships Lolth, v raised outside of it and never did.
Playing a drow from Menzoberranzan who rejected lolth appears not to be an option? as a cleric it's your only choice. Viconia from BG1 cannot exist under BG3 character creation rules. Drizzt also not possible.

Also the new system of it being subrace not individual choice that determines alignment and religion is uh. a step backwards. I hate it.

If you want you can give a seldarine red eyes and pretend.

For my benefit I decided to treat "Lollthsworn" as shorthand for "following the traditional Drow lifestyle and outlook", living in the Underdark (Menzobezerran is just one of tens of Drow cities) and worshiping the alt-good Elven deities. My first EA longer play was with a Paladin follwing Vehrun as he a boy Drow.
In same manner I see "Seldarinesworn" as "nonfollower of Lollth and her brood and all that goes with it" and (usualy) a Surface dweller, not necessarily a devotee of Correllon and Friends. Drizzt followed Melikkiki (sp?), 'rite?
Viconia is an interesting case - callous and cruel making Lae-zel come across as a wide eyed innocent girl scout - and follower of a goddess next to which Lollth looks "good" (if you squint a bit).
In BG3 terms Viconia would be "Seldarine elf" Cleric of Shar.
Surface Elves - regardless if Pale, Greenish or SmurfBlue - can be Chaotic or Neutral Evil Class A assholes too - imma looking at you, fangy boy!

As others said my impression was always that Lolth Sworn is shorthand for the normal Drow from previous editions (evil Lolth worshippers) to differentiate them from the recently introduced good drow because it was decided to not have always evil races anymore.

"Good Drow" have been around in miniscule amounts since like forever. Eilistraee - the Dark Dancer - was not invented yesterday but over 30 years ago, she has been with us since 2ed.
BTW - the "Goblins" webcomic (and dead tree too) poked fun at the flood of "Good Drow" in DnD roleplaying. And that was almost TWENTY years ago!
Look at the last panel:


And there is MORE of them:

Good drow existed since the second edition. But their numbers are still very low. Ppl might got used to tieflings somewhat, but vast majority still will be very warried, if they will see drow.

The whole treating good and evil drow as actual subrwves in the game is silly. It makes no sense in any way. Drow is an elven subrace. They can be good or devil. Culturally speaking, drow tends to be devil because theur cities are dominated by Lloth, but they have always been capable of breaking away. That's where Ellistraee comes in. She willingly stayed with the driw pantheon so be in position to influence drow to turn from.the darkness of Lloth. There are also other non Loth drow dieties and even non driw interloper like Ghaunduar.

Again, treating drow as a separate race and these two as different subraces is dumb.

You can read more about drow priestesses at Elaine Cunningham, Daughter drow.

Or they are far more than just a subrace. Their blood actually were tainted by Lolth. And at far greater degree than those for tieflings.
And Ellistraee simply "accepts" renegade drow, she not making them. Overall, she is one of least powerful deity in FR. As her followers are very-very few.

Duergar are pretty evil in deity worship. They don't have an alternative to Laduger.

Worth to add that drows "homeland" is Underdark + they look like they do (or rather they looked in the previous editions) because of Lolth - as she got cursed and banished from elven pantheon, her elves were cursed and banished from the surface too. This whole race kind of comes from Lolth.

It seems to be nothing more than a conveniently not-wordy designation for 'drow that don't follow Lolth' in the game. That being said, it is inconsistent. Minthara isn't one, even though she doesn't follow the spider queen.

There's also the issue that for some bizarre reason Larian decided that drow eye color changes when they renounce Lolth, and the reverse as well. Doesn't exist anywhere else in any preceding novels or sourcebooks-completely unprecedented, and tbh....kinda uncomfortable IMO. Again, pretty inconsistent. There are actuall very few drow in-game you can meet that follow Lolth, but some are arbitrarily 'Lolthsworn' with the red eyes, while others are 'Seldarine' With blue/purple eyes (supposed to be rare eye colors in previous material, but near everywhere in BG III)

Poor Drizzt is not so special anymore lol

Seldarine strictly refers to the elven pantheon outside Lloth and the betrayers. Minthara is not Seldarine because she doesn't follow the elven pantheon. She's a brainwashed captured Lloth drow.

Minthara also says as much if you have her in your party. If you ask her how she was captured, she will tell you
Nice to know it lines up, I never found those notes!

To the thread title, the Seldarine/Lolth-Sworn distinction seems to be a somewhat strained way to allow the player to indicate whether they are playing "good" drow or "evil" drow to the game. Although it doesn't limit your roleplay options in any way.

There are others in-game that have the eye-color shift, that don't worship the seldarine:

So that can't be the reason. It seems that just renouncing Lolth is enough?

But that's all to the side of the real weirdness, which is that the eye-color changing thing is a thing at all in the game. Like drow are well known for their red eyes in all previously published material, and there are other established eye colors among the drow....but there's absolutely zero correlation between eye color and worshipping/not worshipping the spider queen. There are tons of Lolth-worshipping drow with non-red eyes in canon previously.

It's just a very peculiar retcon Larian introduced that serves no real purpose other than to (messily) distinguish Lotlh's followers from the rest (which itself doesn't really serve a purpose).

Isn't the eye thing from the first Drizzt book? it's why he has to keep his eyes hidden his whole childhood?

Minthara is LSDrow because she was raised in Menzoberranzan, like Drizzt and Viconia, doesnt make her not LSdrow because SeldyDrow are explicit a raised into godness by divine intervention and who in a specific culture and context subrace its worse than all drow are evil but exceptions. its good race and bad race even among drow/orcs everyone else theyve recently done this with in 5e

Lolth sworn drow are usually from Menzoberranzan, the drow major city in the underdark. Its a matriarchy with ruling houses devoted to the spider queen Lolth. In general they are pretty evil, but not all. Dritz is from Menzoberranzan, so is the mercenary company Bregan D'aerthe (which is usually formed of noble male drows). They were led by a man who's name is Jarlaxle who you meet in baldur gate 2, he's not evil more of a chaotic neutral Rogue.
Seldarine drow are drow who usually worship Eilistraee ( A good diety). She is the daughter of Corellon Larethian (elf main god) and Lolth.