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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2022
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I had the scene where Orin shows up in camp and kidnaps a party member upon a long sleep.
It was a bit strange, really, as I had a very similar scene much earlier in the sewers where she ran up to me as Yenna, but when I went back to camp Yenna was there with her usual lines about her parring knife. At that point I just thought that Yenna was a doppelgänger and left her alone, waiting for a reveal scene, however, when I did get the camp scene, the doppelgänger turned out to be Lae’zel. I reload the game from before I picked “go to bed” and put Lae’zel in my team, played the scene again and this time it was Gale. Reloaded again, put Gale in the team (I really just wanted to see the scene for all my companions) and now it was Yenna kidnapped.
I realise that the game prefers Lae’zel, Gale, Yenna and Halsin, but my question is, can it kidnap Astarion or Shadowheart? It automatically jumping to Yenna made it impossible for me to experiment on and I can’t really see any gameplay videos where these are the people Orin takes.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2020
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No, the selection is limited to the ones you mentioned.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2022
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yup, you basically can manipulate who is targeted by choosing party comp. The way to spare from being kidnapped is to leave one of the companions you pointed at camp to be available. If Yenna gets kidnapped, it's a pretty bad outcome for most people....
AS
Grub the kitty gets killed, cooked, and fed to you . So in my case I just left Lazael at camp.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Yup, you basically can manipulate who is targeted by choosing party comp. The way to spare from being kidnapped is to leave one of the companions you pointed at camp to be available. If Yenna gets kidnapped, it's a pretty bad outcome for most people....
AS
Grub the kitty gets killed, cooked, and fed to you . So in my case I just left Lazael at camp. The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yup, you basically can manipulate who is targeted by choosing party comp. The way to spare from being kidnapped is to leave one of the companions you pointed at camp to be available. If Yenna gets kidnapped, it's a pretty bad outcome for most people....
AS
Grub the kitty gets killed, cooked, and fed to you . So in my case I just left Lazael at camp. The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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Yup, you basically can manipulate who is targeted by choosing party comp. The way to spare from being kidnapped is to leave one of the companions you pointed at camp to be available. If Yenna gets kidnapped, it's a pretty bad outcome for most people....
AS
Grub the kitty gets killed, cooked, and fed to you . So in my case I just left Lazael at camp. The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug. Oh no, that would be realyl sad. And that cat is just not very helpful
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug. The same thing happened on my playthrough, and I also would have been totally bemused had I not seen how the scene was meant to play out in camp in a demo a couple of months ago. I feel like someone should at least say something about what happened when we return to long rest, and the cat should either do a runner or have some new dialogue asking if it could stay!
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Dec 2020
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The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug. The same thing happened on my playthrough, and I also would have been totally bemused had I not seen how the scene was meant to play out in camp in a demo a couple of months ago. I feel like someone should at least say something about what happened when we return to long rest, and the cat should either do a runner or have some new dialogue asking if it could stay! Yeah, my problem is, that there is no way to know, what happened to Yenna - the cat doesn't talk, no one had seen anything
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
Doctor Who
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug. I see. That makes sense. Not in "that actually make sense" kind of way, but "reactivity doesn't keep up again" kind of way.
I was also meet "Laez" in sewers urging me to kill Yenna. The issue is, of course, that without Yenna being there Laez have no way of killing her in the moment, if you decided not to do it. In the camp no one had anything to say - not about disapperance of Laez nor the girl. Cat has nothing to say neither.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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The kidnapping doesn't just occur at camp. I was in the sewers, when was kidnapped. Strangely, Yenna is gone from the camp, but the kitty is still there - is that another story thread?
That's because If Orin does not kidnap Yenna, she poses as a camp member claiming Yenna is the doppleganger and urging you to kill her. If you don't pass the DC check and notice something is off, Orin will slit Yenna's throat in her disguise and then laugh and reveal herself pleased with tricking you into killing Yenna. I assume that the game treats it so that if your party member gets abducted in the sewers, Orin as doppleganger already killed and disposed of Yenna. Or it could just be a bug. The same thing happened on my playthrough, and I also would have been totally bemused had I not seen how the scene was meant to play out in camp in a demo a couple of months ago. I feel like someone should at least say something about what happened when we return to long rest, and the cat should either do a runner or have some new dialogue asking if it could stay! Grub just having "Please don't look at me!" after the first round of dialogue breaks my heart ;*(. I want a mod that lets me have Grub, Your Majesty, basically all the cats in my camp! I don't care how stank they are to me, they're my pretties.
Last edited by Zenith; 03/09/23 12:32 AM.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I had no idea there was a scene at camp. Gortash mentions there’s a doppelgänger at camp and I just assumed it was the orphan who only talks about the knife she brought. When I got the sewer scene with Orin and returned to camp, I just assumed Yenna being gone was because she was Orin or someone. What are the triggers for these variations?
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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I had no idea there was a scene at camp. Gortash mentions there’s a doppelgänger at camp and I just assumed it was the orphan who only talks about the knife she brought. When I got the sewer scene with Orin and returned to camp, I just assumed Yenna being gone was because she was Orin or someone. What are the triggers for these variations? I believe it's long rest dependant, but it has a lower priority compared to other long rest cutscenes.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Can you attack everyone in your camp until one of them transforms back into Orin ? lol
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Sep 2023
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Can you attack everyone in your camp until one of them transforms back into Orin ? lol I tried reloading to an earlier save and attacking Lae'zel, but nothing came out of it. I don't think the game decides who Orin is beforehand, but rather at the moment it generates the cutscene perhaps?
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addict
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addict
Joined: Oct 2020
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Yup, and the trigger for that scene seems to be shortly after meeting Gortash or sometime after entering Sharress Caress. The sequence with Orin is that she will impersonate two targets at Rivington:
Gyldro the smith, the dryad lady from the circus, the stone lord ruffian bleeding out on the beach, and the Flame Fist guard by the entry to the shed at the refugee camp. Once she morphs into one of these two times, the others are safe. For me, the optimal outcome is to talk to the Stone Lord ruffian since he's gonna die anyways from bleeding out and they are tadpoled agents anyways, and the Fist guy by the shed as they are xenophobic and also tadpoled by Gortash. Then Gyldro and circus dryad can live so long as you talk to them after Orin's transformation at the previous two.
. After some long rests post meeting Gortash, you are in a state where she can proceed to do what she does. Honestly, I don't like that design. For one, it makes no sense whatsoever.
This goes for both Orin the Dark Urge camp moments as well. How in hell are people getting kidnapped and murdered in the vicinity of the camp? People are not deaf. Orin kidnapping seasoned warriors without you noticing in the middle of your camp is just stupidly contrived.[/spoiler
Then there's the Dark Urge
[spoiler]
camp scene killing Alfira. Come on, some girl is being eviscerated, she should be howling in pain and fear, and none of your crew really does anything? Same thing happens at the Temple of Bhaal, your team sees you accept Bhaal as its new Chosen. You virtually choose to replace Orin as a chosen and swear to dominate and murder the world, and your teammates just STAY??!!! If you choose to kill some tiefling refugees, Karlach, Wyll, and Halsin are gone and both Gale and Shadowheart are displeased, but somehow swearing to murder the world and become an Orin substitute doesn't cost you none of your allies? WTF, this is really bad writing. This choice should pretty much cost you everyone but Astarion and maybe a Shar aligned Shadowheart.
My other problem with that design is not about narrative coherence, but about what it does to your gameplay. You just enter a state where you rush to Orin and ignore all intervening side content because otherwise it costs you dialogue with whoever she picks until you do what needs to be done. It really railroads your play.
Last edited by Zenith; 03/09/23 04:30 AM.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Aug 2023
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Then there's the Dark Urge
camp scene killing Alfira. Come on, some girl is being eviscerated, she should be howling in pain and fear, and none of your crew really does anything? Same thing happens at the Temple of Bhaal, your team sees you accept Bhaal as its new Chosen. You virtually choose to replace Orin as a chosen and swear to dominate and murder the world, and your teammates just STAY??!!! If you choose to kill some tiefling refugees, Karlach, Wyll, and Halsin are gone and both Gale and Shadowheart are displeased, but somehow swearing to murder the world and become an Orin substitute doesn't cost you none of your allies? WTF, this is really bad writing. This choice should pretty much cost you everyone but Astarion and maybe a Shar aligned Shadowheart.
My other problem with that design is not about narrative coherence, but about what it does to your gameplay. You just enter a state where you rush to Orin and ignore all intervening side content because otherwise it costs you dialogue with whoever she picks until you do what needs to be done. It really railroads your play. Becoming the chosen of bhaal, if you have jaheira and misc with you, they will leave your party; and will ambush you with a squad of harpers on your way out. Forcing you to kill them. or worse!
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member
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member
Joined: Jul 2023
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Then there's the Dark Urge
camp scene killing Alfira. Come on, some girl is being eviscerated, she should be howling in pain and fear, and none of your crew really does anything? Same thing happens at the Temple of Bhaal, your team sees you accept Bhaal as its new Chosen. You virtually choose to replace Orin as a chosen and swear to dominate and murder the world, and your teammates just STAY??!!! If you choose to kill some tiefling refugees, Karlach, Wyll, and Halsin are gone and both Gale and Shadowheart are displeased, but somehow swearing to murder the world and become an Orin substitute doesn't cost you none of your allies? WTF, this is really bad writing. This choice should pretty much cost you everyone but Astarion and maybe a Shar aligned Shadowheart.
My other problem with that design is not about narrative coherence, but about what it does to your gameplay. You just enter a state where you rush to Orin and ignore all intervening side content because otherwise it costs you dialogue with whoever she picks until you do what needs to be done. It really railroads your play. Becoming the chosen of bhaal, if you have jaheira and misc with you, they will leave your party; and will ambush you with a squad of harpers on your way out. Forcing you to kill them. or worse! Sooo... Once again choosing evil takes away several companions and you get jack for going on that route.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2020
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The sequence with Orin is that she will impersonate two targets at Rivington: she can also impersonate journalist lady near the gate to Baldir’s Mouth
. Honestly, I don't like that design.
For one, it makes no sense whatsoever. Yeah, I really like the concept, but I don’t think it is executed well. Heavy handed scripting creating “alternative realities” (Orin not being a character until she is) is annoying is a supposively systemic game like that with player urgency. There are a few moments in act3, were I have been trying to figure out how things are scripted to see if I CAN do anything.
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apprentice
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OP
apprentice
Joined: Aug 2022
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After the scene with Gortash I did have the sewer scene with Halsin first, but both him and Yenna were in my camp when I went back. i am not sure if that was only a bug or if Orin just tries to scare you at that point. The camp scene happened later on long rest, and the person kidnapped was decided by whom I had in my part at that very moment. When I changed my party literally before hitting “go to bed” to include Gale and Lae’zel, the game changed the kidnapped person to Yenna in that scene (before that it was either Gale or Lae’zel).
The trigger for these scenes I think is that you speak to Gortash, but I think the trigger to whom is kidnapped is depending on who is in your team at the second when this scene is played.
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